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  #281  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:05 AM
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I must have missed the part where putting your own serial number on a 80% stripped lower prior to 7-1-18, requires you to register it (on a list)?

Not a rhetorical question...
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  #282  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
SO, if you are on the featureless bandwagon, you have till 7-1-2018 to get "on a list"

If you want an AW, you better have a BB rifle "in your possession" by whatever needed circumstances within the next 15 days. You'll have to register it as an AW before the end of 2017, and you'll be "on a list"

If you want to be "off list", too bad. Better hide it, bury it in the back yard, or live in rural CA where noone checks or cares. Or get 857 repealed at which point you can go featureless (or not semi auto) and be off list.

Even repealing 880, your 80% has to be on a list, or buried in the back yard (because of AB857).
So, if one has plans to build non AW style firearm, can one buy finisher lower
A) before 1/1/2017
B) after 1/1/2017
then build non AW and apply not to AW registry?

I mean, what kind of difference right now is between finished and 80% lower is?

They both are to be registered in the registry this way or the other... It's just 80% imposes more things to do to achieve the same goal.

Does just buying finished lower means you have to register it as AW?
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  #283  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DevilDawgJJ View Post
I must have missed the part where putting your own serial number on a 80% stripped lower prior to 7-1-18, requires you to register it (on a list)?

Not a rhetorical question...
The answer is that the quote above is out of context. The statement in full context is: "Ownership of an 80% anything, in a partial or fully completed state, before 7-1-18, must be serialized and "put on a list" by that date.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201520160AB857

Before 7-1-18, you need to put your own serial number on it and get on list. After 7-1-18, you cannot put your own SN on it, you have to apply to (and pay for) the DOJ to assign you a SN before you are allowed by your superiors to take your 80% to 81%.

Your grace period is 6 months. Between 7-1-18 (actually right now) and 1-1-19, you may choose NOT to serialize your gun and remain off list. Beginning 1-1-19, (actually 1-10-19, you have 10 more days grace), that gun becomes "an illegal gun".

------------------

Most of the rest of the discussion in this thread (that is not associated with the assault weapons ban) revolves around self-serialization because most of us (all of us) have absolutely no desire to have a SN assigned to us, and find self assignation (free) more palatable. Thus the origin of the out-of-context statement.
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  #284  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by accel View Post
So, if one has plans to build non AW style firearm, can one buy finisher lower
A) before 1/1/2017
B) after 1/1/2017
then build non AW and apply not to AW registry?

I mean, what kind of difference right now is between finished and 80% lower is?

They both are to be registered in the registry this way or the other... It's just 80% imposes more things to do to achieve the same goal.

Does just buying finished lower means you have to register it as AW?
This thread has been about 80's, not stripped lowers. I'd rather just address 80's here.
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  #285  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLibertate View Post
On 12/7 I wrote:



Today the postman brought me a letter from the DOJ telling me that this pistol is now registered!! That is less than two weeks to handle my application.

Oh Happy Days!

So here is proof that an 80% SSE2 VolReg does occasionally get approved.
Must be a double-standard at the DOJ. I got the "reject everyone" guy I guess...

That, or they may make different decisions based on AR pattern firearms? They would not admit that to me....
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  #286  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
Before 7-1-18, you need to put your own serial number on it and get on list.
Where does it say that? They way I'm reading it is if you completed an 80% sometime in the past and did not serialize it by 7-1-18, you will need to serialize it with a state given serial. I didn't see anything about a pre 7-1-18 self serialized completed 80 needing to be reg'd.
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  #287  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
The answer is that the quote above is out of context. The statement in full context is: "Ownership of an 80% anything, in a partial or fully completed state, before 7-1-18, must be serialized and "put on a list" by that date.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201520160AB857

Before 7-1-18, you need to put your own serial number on it and get on list. After 7-1-18, you cannot put your own SN on it, you have to apply to (and pay for) the DOJ to assign you a SN before you are allowed by your superiors to take your 80% to 81%.

Your grace period is 6 months. Between 7-1-18 (actually right now) and 1-1-19, you may choose NOT to serialize your gun and remain off list. Beginning 1-1-19, (actually 1-10-19, you have 10 more days grace), that gun becomes "an illegal gun".

------------------

Most of the rest of the discussion in this thread (that is not associated with the assault weapons ban) revolves around self-serialization because most of us (all of us) have absolutely no desire to have a SN assigned to us, and find self assignation (free) more palatable. Thus the origin of the out-of-context statement.
Thank you sir! As of right now, I see no reason to have my 80% (I don't have $$ to complete them). I think I'm going to sell all of them and the jigs. It's just more of a hassle for me in the future to deal with. Better yet. I think I'll mill the rest out and turn them into the next PD gun buy back. $100 gift card is more than what I paid for them.
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  #288  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Where does it say that? They way I'm reading it is if you completed an 80% sometime in the past and did not serialize it by 7-1-18, you will need to serialize it with a state given serial. I didn't see anything about a pre 7-1-18 self serialized completed 80 needing to be reg'd.

29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.

(c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.

(d) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(e) A firearm that is a curio or relic, or an antique firearm, as those terms are defined in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

So it looks like you have to have it with either a state registered (or assigned) serial number or assigned by Federal Government serial number prior to 7-1-2018 to avoid having to apply for a state assigned serial number from the CA DOJ after 7-1-2018. So far, the only info I've seen on assigned serial numbers from the Federal Government involves FFL manufacturers. There are guidelines for private non-ffl individuals for marking and serialization for private non-business sales, but I haven't seen anywhere indicating this will comply with the "assigned" portion of the statute. This is because I haven't seen anywhere that shows how a private individual can get an "assigned" number from the Federal Government. Anyone have info on that? At this point, getting a Fed serial number seems to be preferred to getting a state assigned (CA registered) serial number.
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  #289  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:49 AM
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Right now any talk of needing to register past 80% builds that were properly marked is pure FUD.

Whiterabbit, please show us this in writing from a credible source. One or two DOJ agents opinions are NOT a credible source, but I haven't even seen those.

What I do see is BIG players saying just the opposite. They are putting their business on the line saying you can beat the deadline and NOT need to register.

I don't trust them any more than I trust your FUD. The fact is that no one really knows right now.

If I missed a big announcement from the DOJ please point me to it.
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  #290  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:54 AM
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Serial numbers are NOT assigned to manufactures. They are approved but NOT assigned.
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  #291  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
...because most of us (all of us) have absolutely no desire to have a SN assigned to us, and find self assignation (free) more palatable. Thus the origin of the out-of-context statement.
How is self-assigned (but still listed/registered) any more palatable than assigned (listed/registered)? Seems you're just as screwed both ways.
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  #292  
Old 12-15-2016, 7:57 AM
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Serial numbers are NOT assigned to manufactures. They are approved but NOT assigned.
What is the approval process? Assuming that I am asking for the Federal Approval process.
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  #293  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
Right now any talk of needing to register past 80% builds that were properly marked is pure FUD.

Whiterabbit, please show us this in writing from a credible source. One or two DOJ agents opinions are NOT a credible source, but I haven't even seen those.

What I do see is BIG players saying just the opposite. They are putting their business on the line saying you can beat the deadline and NOT need to register.

I don't trust them any more than I trust your FUD. The fact is that no one really knows right now.

If I missed a big announcement from the DOJ please point me to it.
Ambiguity is equally dangerous to FUD imo.

And what/which "BIG" players are you talking about? If you can avoid listed/registered serialization, that would be great.
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  #294  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:01 AM
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The Manufactures I have talked to (and engraved serial numbers for) say they just can not be a duplicate number (for that model and manufacture) and can contain letters but must end in a number.
Following these guidelines I've never heard of any being turned down.
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  #295  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
Ambiguity is equally dangerous to FUD imo.
I agree and that's why I won't take a stand until it's made clear.


(which "BIG" players are you talking about?)
I posted a couple links earlier, I'll try to find them.
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  #296  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
This thread has been about 80's, not stripped lowers. I'd rather just address 80's here.
I thought that comparing 80% vs finished would help to understand bettervwhere 80% is right now.
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  #297  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
-------------------------

Disclaimer: all this info comes from a phone call at the DOJ, and has all the legal weight of a verbal discussion from a guy who answers the phone at the CaDOJ. Accept this information at your own risk.
I appreciate this write up Whiterabbit!

Rather then continue to debate these ambiguous bills/legal-speak, CalDOJ office phone calls... Does ANYONE have actual LEGAL connections that can help CA gun owners interpret the laws?

Is there any LEGAL / LAW Firm out there that can decipher these bills on CA gun owners behalf?
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  #298  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:14 AM
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If the FED does not keep a record of 'assigned' or 'approved' numbers then there is no way to prove a self inscribed SN was(not) assigned/approved by the FED.
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  #299  
Old 12-15-2016, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M62 View Post
Some people believe self-serialization meets the requirement of the law without voluntarily registering the firearm, and others believe it does not.
This is what we really need to get in writing.

Do we even know at this time?
There are a ton of engravers and a few 80% manufactures stating as fact that self-serialization meets the requirement of the law without voluntarily registering the firearm. Most of these people are making a profit on this and if it's not true what are the consequences?

(see link below for one example. Read the statement at the bottom of the page.)

http://www.80percentarms.com/collect...r-ca-compliant
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Last edited by VaderSpade; 12-15-2016 at 8:20 AM..
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  #300  
Old 12-15-2016, 9:55 AM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Where does it say that? They way I'm reading it is if you completed an 80% sometime in the past and did not serialize it by 7-1-18, you will need to serialize it with a state given serial. I didn't see anything about a pre 7-1-18 self serialized completed 80 needing to be reg'd.
By your own statement: if registration is a requirement, then either you or hte state needs to assign a serial number. 7-1-18 it's you, after it's the state only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
Right now any talk of needing to register past 80% builds that were properly marked is pure FUD.

Whiterabbit, please show us this in writing from a credible source. One or two DOJ agents opinions are NOT a credible source, but I haven't even seen those.
in writing is here:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201520160AB857

Excerpt:

29180. (c) By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number {that is assigned by CalDOJ (CaPC23910) or compliant with USA Code} shall do all of the following:

(paraphrase: get a SN from DOJ and register)

(bold is paraphrase and highlighted by me)
-----------

OK, I can see how that can be interpreted. Your position is straightforward: a person who BEFORE 7-1-18 owns a firearm that bears a serial number that complies with Federal law does not meet the qualifications of 29180c and thus does NOT need to comply with 29181, which is the exceptions list for firearms that DO apply to 29180c.

And 29181 is the section that requires registration of 80's as I have been posting.

Which means! ...someone gets to be the test case. "No officer, that serialized firearm was manufactured before 7-1-18 and that's why it is not in any of your databases."

yep. OK Vader, I'm on board with you. The verbiage of 29180c is very weak, and leaves open the idea that you do NOT need to be on the centralized registry because a homebuild WITH serial number (but unregistered) already complies with the verbiage of 29180c and thus no need to consider the remaining text of 857. (ie does not need the exemption of 29181 which is the registration requirement)

I believe you, but before planning around that fact I would wait to see what regulations come out from the DOJ to govern the rest of 857's implementation. Which I believe is also exactly what you intimated in your post as well.

--------------

And none of this applies to people who plan to keep their currently legal homebuilt firearms that will be classified as assault weapons on 1-1-17. But a critical distinction for those who do not trigger 880.

Last edited by Whiterabbit; 12-15-2016 at 10:06 AM..
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  #301  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
"No officer, that serialized firearm was manufactured before 7-1-18 and that's why it is not in any of your databases."
Street cop is not going to be looking up your serial in a DB. There are plenty of preventative measures not to have LE look up your SN in the first place.
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  #302  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.

(c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.

(d) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(e) A firearm that is a curio or relic, or an antique firearm, as those terms are defined in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

So it looks like you have to have it with either a state registered (or assigned) serial number or assigned by Federal Government serial number prior to 7-1-2018 to avoid having to apply for a state assigned serial number from the CA DOJ after 7-1-2018. So far, the only info I've seen on assigned serial numbers from the Federal Government involves FFL manufacturers. There are guidelines for private non-ffl individuals for marking and serialization for private non-business sales, but I haven't seen anywhere indicating this will comply with the "assigned" portion of the statute. This is because I haven't seen anywhere that shows how a private individual can get an "assigned" number from the Federal Government. Anyone have info on that? At this point, getting a Fed serial number seems to be preferred to getting a state assigned (CA registered) serial number.
May section (a) above mean that you can self assign the number and it will be valid if complies with ATF guidelines? Then it would match what 80% lowers sellers are claiming:

Machine it and assign serial number before the deadline _according_to_ATF_serial_number_requirements_:
your first, last name, city, state, caliber, ... ? Then you ae exempt?
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  #303  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
How is self-assigned (but still listed/registered) any more palatable than assigned (listed/registered)? Seems you're just as screwed both ways.
as far as I am concerned, pandora's box is opened with 80's. when it comes to MAKING these things, we're the ones with the power now. half of us making 80's now have the prints and enough knowledge that, given enough time, could make crude (but functional) duplicates from aluminum blocks. God forbid that becomes needed.

With self assignation, I am in control of the digits and cost and timing. With engraving ability self serialization is fast and free and creative. Apply to the DOJ will cost money ($12? $25? $100? $10,000?), and take time (30 day turnaround to give you a SN? longer?)

self-serialization is infinitely more palatable than asking "my superiors in government" for "permission" to exercise what I was perfectly right to do on my own previously. And paying for that insult!

Registration is an easier pill to swallow when, if some of us are sitting on perfectly legal 80's, can turn them into functioning parts quickly if the need (whatever need) arises.
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  #304  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by accel View Post
May section (a) above mean that you can self assign the number and it will be valid if complies with ATF guidelines? Then it would match what 80% lowers sellers are claiming:

Machine it and assign serial number before the deadline _according_to_ATF_serial_number_requirements_:
your first, last name, city, state, caliber, ... ? Then you ae exempt?
So, IF 29180 applies to you and you need an exception in 29181, item (c) can be helpful to study too. If CaDOJ accepts your marking, it doesn't even need to comply with US law.

That could be an enormous if. But still there.
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  #305  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Street cop is not going to be looking up your serial in a DB. There are plenty of preventative measures not to have LE look up your SN in the first place.
Then it doesn't need any markings at all in that case, because there will be no inspection. The "I live in the sticks" method.

I do expect that ALOT of rural californians will excercise this option. as would I if I lived in the sticks.
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  #306  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
The Manufactures I have talked to (and engraved serial numbers for) say they just can not be a duplicate number (for that model and manufacture) and can contain letters but must end in a number.
Following these guidelines I've never heard of any being turned down.
Well, two of my 3 followed those guidelines (unless I got REALLY unlucky with the SN selection, but I doubt it), and all 3 were turned down.

Of course, I am not a manufacturer with a license nor are most of us. Just tinkers at home doing this for personal use.
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Old 12-15-2016, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
Well, two of my 3 followed those guidelines (unless I got REALLY unlucky with the SN selection, but I doubt it), and all 3 were turned down.

Of course, I am not a manufacturer with a license nor are most of us. Just tinkers at home doing this for personal use.
Did you get any info explaining what was wrong with the numbers?
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  #308  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by accel View Post
Did you get any info explaining what was wrong with the numbers?
They rejected my application for a Firearm Ownership Report because "regulations were still being written for AB 2220 and delayed due to other safety priorities"

Same note on all 3 applications. No mention of what is in the images, the SNs, anything else. "Reject" status due to the regulations of AB 2220 not being implemented yet.

you should google AB 2220.
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Old 12-15-2016, 5:20 PM
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So what are the mandatory fields on a pistol volreg? I'm trying to get the minimum amount of stuff engraved on my lowers. On a typical DROS I see these fields:

make
model
caliber
serial
other number

------

type
category
color
barrel length
frame/receiver only
new/used
FSD compliance
comment

I don't see any fields for place of manufacture. The whole volreg thing is confusing because before the new laws you didn't have to put any of this stuff on the gun at all and at a minimum just a serial.

Last edited by shaocaholica; 12-15-2016 at 5:30 PM..
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  #310  
Old 12-15-2016, 5:52 PM
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Wow, if you want to make your head spin... read this thread.
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Old 12-15-2016, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
Wow, if you want to make your head spin... read this thread.
No kidding right ?

If there is a demand for laser engraving of serial numbers on 80's pm me or speak up.

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Old 12-15-2016, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
No kidding right ?

If there is a demand for laser engraving of serial numbers on 80's pm me or speak up.
So my understanding then... And what I tried to gather from this thread is that if I ever wanted my 80% to be an AW, it would have to be serialized and recorded before 1/1/17? In other words my 80% lowers I may or may not have now would have to be forever featureless if there is no record of my ownership with the Cal DOJ prior to this date? Would laser engraving be okay not being .005 deep?

Someone is probably going to flame me for not reading the thread well enough (which consists of a few merged threads) but I don't care, I read it all and my brain is fried so flame away. Get your jollies... I do not intend to, nor will I break any laws, so I am trying my best to preserve my 2nd amendment rights without landing afoul.
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Old 12-15-2016, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryfe76 View Post
Do 80% polymer receivers need a stainless steel insert with the serial number engraved or is that just for commercially manufactured firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's required for "home built" firearms under the new CA laws.
What about polymer lowers that were complete (and engraved) prior to the passage of the new law?

The requirement is that the stainless part be included in the manufacturing process.... aside from the fact that compliance is impossible due to the requirement that the plate by 3.7oz, which is larger and thicker than the sides of an AR magwell.
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Old 12-16-2016, 9:08 AM
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UPDATE:

Called the DOJ. My applications have been pending for 54 days now...

I was told by Sharon that an VolReg application being submitted is sufficient evidence of ownership, it does not have to be approved by the end of the year.

Also, they now have a phone line for AW registration. The person I spoke to confirmed that registration would take place through the CRIS system, would go live on the 1st, and would cost $15 per session, not per firearm.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
So my understanding then... And what I tried to gather from this thread is that if I ever wanted my 80% to be an AW, it would have to be serialized and recorded before 1/1/17? In other words my 80% lowers I may or may not have now would have to be forever featureless if there is no record of my ownership with the Cal DOJ prior to this date? Would laser engraving be okay not being .005 deep?

Someone is probably going to flame me for not reading the thread well enough (which consists of a few merged threads) but I don't care, I read it all and my brain is fried so flame away. Get your jollies... I do not intend to, nor will I break any laws, so I am trying my best to preserve my 2nd amendment rights without landing afoul.
I don't personally think that's the case. They will take your word under penalty of perjury and approve your AW request even without VOLREG prior. The AW law doesn't mention anything about a firearm being required to be registered PRIOR to being registered as an AW. If you want to wait, I'll be a Gunnar pig. I intend on registering both VolReg'd 80's and non-Reg'd 80's. I'll document the process. It will be painless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
UPDATE:

Called the DOJ. My applications have been pending for 54 days now...

I was told by Sharon that an VolReg application being submitted is sufficient evidence of ownership, it does not have to be approved by the end of the year.

Also, they now have a phone line for AW registration. The person I spoke to confirmed that registration would take place through the CRIS system, would go live on the 1st, and would cost $15 per session, not per firearm.
Thank you. Great news.
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  #316  
Old 12-16-2016, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
If you make a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without dissembling the firearm's action from an "80% receiver", then it is not considered an assault weapon.

Since it is not an assault weapon, it can/does not need to be registered as an assault weapon during the 2017 grace period (01-01-2017 to 12-31-2017).

However...

Starting 01-01-2019, all home built firearms need to be marked and any unmarked home built firearm will be illegal to possess.

If the home built firearm is not marked by 06-30-2018, then the owner will need to apply to CA DOJ for approved/provided marking information. This process will register the home built firearm as a non-assault weapon with CA DOJ.

If the home built firearm is marked before 07-01-2018, then the owner/maker can legally mark the firearm with whatever information they want (as long as it meets BATFE marking requirements). This will not register the home built firearm with CA DOJ.
I am sure I read elsewhere (in this forum) that the consensus was an 80% would have to be fully built/engraved by 1/1/2017 and voluntarily registered.

I cant afford to build all my stripped lowers/80% by then...maybe just the lowers assembled.

Am I screwed or no one knows for sure?

And for those that say - just go featureless... I am not attracted to that at all.
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Old 12-16-2016, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
No kidding right ?

If there is a demand for laser engraving of serial numbers on 80's pm me or speak up.

Anaheim area. By the pond.

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I might need your services on some 100% - still interested?
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  #318  
Old 12-16-2016, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bRiT636 View Post
I am sure I read elsewhere (in this forum) that the consensus was an 80% would have to be fully built/engraved by 1/1/2017 and voluntarily registered.

I cant afford to build all my stripped lowers/80% by then...maybe just the lowers assembled.

Am I screwed or no one knows for sure?

And for those that say - just go featureless... I am not attracted to that at all.
Fully built but not necessarily engraved. But who are you kidding. The engraving is the easy part.
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  #319  
Old 12-16-2016, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Fully built but not necessarily engraved. But who are you kidding. The engraving is the easy part.
Exactly - I hoped to build these slowly next year and register them. What a Sh**Show!
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  #320  
Old 12-16-2016, 3:55 PM
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Actually, on a technical level, if you simply drill a divot into your 80, it becomes a firearm even though you haven't completed all the machining. That could technically be possession by 1/1/2017.
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