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  #161  
Old 11-25-2016, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BREACH View Post
Do they actually issue a DROS? I would think the clock would start the day they create that, rather than the day you submitted. Though for the purpose of providing proof you had the firearm built prior to 2017, I would imagine the simple proof of submitting photos and paperwork prior to that date would suffice...?


A volreg is basically a non-dealer DROS.....
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  #162  
Old 11-29-2016, 5:45 PM
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I've been told that letters are OK but serial numbers need to end in a number.
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  #163  
Old 11-29-2016, 7:12 PM
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WRONG. Contents from ATF 27 CFR 487.92.

Serial Number

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame or receiver

The serial number cannot duplicate the serial number appearing on any other firearm the importer previously imported

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch

// contents from my prior post are just examples, serial number can be a combination of letters and numerical. Example would be NOV052016AD, what you want avoid is having duplicate lowers with identical serials.


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I've been told that letters are OK but serial numbers need to end in a number.

Last edited by Excommunicado; 11-29-2016 at 7:20 PM..
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  #164  
Old 11-29-2016, 7:20 PM
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I see you found the section on importers??? Where does it say ANYTHING about letters or numbers???

I got my information directly from a major US based manufacture. Imports may be different?
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  #165  
Old 11-29-2016, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
First issue...

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]


Second issue...

Wait until 2017, when CA DOJ BOF activates the 2017 assault weapons registration website.
Can the markings be anywhere on the receiver?

Imagine you put some fictitious markings a few years ago because you thought it was cute... Now what? Can you just find space on the receiver and put compliant markings? It seems unwise to destroy the old markings.
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  #166  
Old 11-30-2016, 6:46 AM
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AFAIK if it's already serialized with all the required information there's nothing else you need to do in order to sell it. You can't have made it for the purpose of resale, though.
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  #167  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:01 AM
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Any updates...?
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  #168  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:11 AM
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Any updates...?


Nope. Still waiting for my letters....
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  #169  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:14 AM
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I VolReg two single shot 80% AR pistols in (I think 2015) via snail mail, they didn't ask for pictures, maybe this a new requirement?

.
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  #170  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:52 AM
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Nope. Still waiting for my letters....
Thank you sir. Please keep us posted.
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  #171  
Old 11-30-2016, 3:09 PM
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Make Type Report Type Status
U S RIFLE Firearm Ownership Reports In-Progress
U S RIFLE Firearm Ownership Reports In-Progress
U S PISTOL Firearm Ownership Reports In-Progress

It sure would be "funny", and not a ha-ha funny, if they delayed completion until 2017, and then wouldn't allow me to put into the RAW database because the complete date was after 1-1-17

I submitted 11-14-16. If it really takes 30 days for VolReg to complete, that puts me 2 weeks out for acceptance, then snail mail for whatever paperwork is sent for whatever purpose.

I don't care. As long as I meet the requirement of 857 to "be on the centralized registry" by I think 6-30-17, and the 880 requirement to be owned by 1-1-17, by whatever metric they are going to use to screw us out of centerfire semi auto detach mag rifles, then I am set until we can get these laws out, if ever.

The nice thing about 80's that CA really took away from us, is that for those of us with a mill, the genie is out of the bottle. pre-2014, post 2014, registration, no registration, it was all irrelevant. To reset the clock on any registration, just destroy the old one and mill out a new one. They really took that power away from us with 857. Incredibly irksome. Ghost guns was a stupid term. Now with 857, there are going to be a huge number of REAL ghost guns.

Last edited by Whiterabbit; 11-30-2016 at 3:16 PM..
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  #172  
Old 11-30-2016, 9:10 PM
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Do 80% polymer receivers need a stainless steel insert with the serial number engraved or is that just for commercially manufactured firearms?
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  #173  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:38 PM
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DONE OVER THINK IT. Besides, engraving serial number onto a completed 80% merely serves purpose of being compliant to AB 857 which did not specify any serial number "format"

Pursuant to 27 CFR 478.92(a)(1), you, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:
I. By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
II. By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.






Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
I see you found the section on importers??? Where does it say ANYTHING about letters or numbers???

I got my information directly from a major US based manufacture. Imports may be different?

Last edited by Excommunicado; 11-30-2016 at 10:43 PM..
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  #174  
Old 12-01-2016, 5:40 PM
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Default Do I need to vol reg now?

I built an 80% ak back in the days of build party's. At the time I had my receiver engraved. Since I already have a unique serial number engraved on my rifle do I need to vol register my rifle now so I don't run into issues of being assigned a new serial number if I later register it as an AW?
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  #175  
Old 12-02-2016, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryfe76 View Post
Do 80% polymer receivers need a stainless steel insert with the serial number engraved or is that just for commercially manufactured firearms?
It's required for "home built" firearms under the new CA laws.
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  #176  
Old 12-05-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xicor View Post
When you submitted the form on CRIS what did you select in the "Make" drop down. I don't see a "self" or "other" option




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I selected "Eugene Stoner" and wrote in comments "True Make: U S"
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  #177  
Old 12-05-2016, 3:24 PM
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Make is U S for homemade.
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  #178  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:24 PM
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Default 80 Percent lower- Registration

Question: I recently milled out an 80 percent lower. I have no markings on it whatsoever. I would like to register in 2017 as an Assault Weapon. What do I have to do?

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  #179  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:39 PM
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Build it into a rifle prior to 1 Jan 2017 that meets the new definition af an assault weapon.

Have the receiver properly marked per ATF regs prior to 1 Jul 2018, then register as an assault weapon prior to 1 Jan 2018.

If you fail to properly mark the receiver prior to 1 July 2018, then you are supposed to apply to the state for your SN. If you're going to register as an assault rifle you will need to serialize it prior assault rifle registration so this gives you the year of 2017.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...ation-overview

Last edited by brianm767; 12-06-2016 at 9:22 AM..
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  #180  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:39 PM
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First you need to finish it and make 100%.

Then you have to get it serialized with proper markings and depths.

Then build it into a 2001 - 2016 AR 15 Compliant Asshat Rifle with CA bullet button and features.

Then VolReg it with CA DOJ.

Apply next year for yourself to be on Santas Naughty List.
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  #181  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:41 PM
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Like the poster before me, youre going to get 30 different answers on your question. Everyone is going to interpret differently and noone here is going to defend you in court.
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  #182  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:46 PM
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ill never understand anyone who mills out their own 80%er into 100% and wants to register it....
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  #183  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluke the 2 View Post
ill never understand anyone who mills out their own 80%er into 100% and wants to register it....
To make a retro A1 lower, vietnam era XM177E2 or XM16E2 and have it look acurate, meaning non featureless .

Why I stared doing them
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  #184  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm767 View Post
To make a retro A1 lower, vietnam era XM177E2 or XM16E2 and have it look acurate, meaning non featureless .

Why I stared doing them
Ahhh, I see. very cool!! now i understand.
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  #185  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm767 View Post
Build it into a rifle prior to 1 Jan 2017 that meets the new definition af an assault weapon.

Have the receiver properly marked per ATF regs prior to 1 Jul 2017, then register as an assault weapon prior to 1 Jan 2018.

If you fail to properly mark the receiver prior to 1 July 2017, then you are supposed to apply to the state for your SN.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...ation-overview
Brian thank you very much. That was the clearest I have seen it. I have my lower completed and finished to 100% already. My real question was: do I have to have it registered to the ATF prior 2016, December 31?- because it has to be transferred, purchased, etc to the owner prior to 2016, December 31 in order to be registered as an AW and I wondered if the same applied to a homemade lowers(if they had to be registered woth ATF in that time frame). But you already answered my question. Thank you.

Anybody else have any input?

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  #186  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluke the 2 View Post
First you need to finish it and make 100%.

Then you have to get it serialized with proper markings and depths.

Then build it into a 2001 - 2016 AR 15 Compliant Asshat Rifle with CA bullet button and features.

Then VolReg it with CA DOJ.

Apply next year for yourself to be on Santas Naughty List.
More importantly I would have liked to have the timeframes I needed to have this stuff done by

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  #187  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluke the 2 View Post
Like the poster before me, youre going to get 30 different answers on your question. Everyone is going to interpret differently and noone here is going to defend you in court.
I don't understand why one would get different answers to this question. Is there something not accurate that Brian said?

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  #188  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluke the 2 View Post
ill never understand anyone who mills out their own 80%er into 100% and wants to register it....
Well I would like to register some of completed AR lowers and AK lowers as well, so I can keep the ergonomics of the rifle. I will also turn some of my rifles in featureless but I hate the ergonomics of the featureless. The featureless are also pretty ugly.

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  #189  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm767 View Post
To make a retro A1 lower, vietnam era XM177E2 or XM16E2 and have it look acurate, meaning non featureless .

Why I stared doing them
Exactly. I also have an MK12 clone and I really would hate to see it with an ugly shark fin.

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  #190  
Old 12-05-2016, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
More importantly I would have liked to have the timeframes I needed to have this stuff done by

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Completed and Registered Rifle before the end of this year or DEC. 31st 2016.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
I don't understand why one would get different answers to this question. Is there something not accurate that Brian said?

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Different answers because one person cant predict the future outcome of case law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
Well I would like to register some of completed AR lowers and AK lowers as well, so I can keep the ergonomics of the rifle. I will also turn some of my rifles in featureless but I hate the ergonomics of the featureless. The featureless are also pretty ugly.

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Hmm
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  #191  
Old 12-05-2016, 8:16 PM
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Ok Luke so you THINK that home built rifles have to be built and registered with ATF by Dec 1, 2016 and Brian THINKS that it has to be built by Dec 1, 2016 but registered with the ATF by July 1, 2017 correct?

And this is why I am so confused with everything. With all do respect Luke, what evidence do you have prove you are correct? I'm just trying to most accurate information possible l.

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  #192  
Old 12-05-2016, 8:34 PM
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There are many many many rifles bought before 2014 that are not registered... After 2014 long guns started being registered. Deductive reasoning. Build it as current rifle before jan 1. Register as AW in 2017.

Atf markings requierments make sense that it not needed to be done until july 2017.

Opinion only


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
Ok Luke so you THINK that home built rifles have to be built and registered with ATF by Dec 1, 2016 and Brian THINKS that it has to be built by Dec 1, 2016 but registered with the ATF by July 1, 2017 correct?

And this is why I am so confused with everything. With all do respect Luke, what evidence do you have prove you are correct? I'm just trying to most accurate information possible l.

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  #193  
Old 12-05-2016, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
Ok Luke so you THINK that home built rifles have to be built and registered with ATF by Dec 1, 2016 and Brian THINKS that it has to be built by Dec 1, 2016 but registered with the ATF by July 1, 2017 correct?

And this is why I am so confused with everything. With all do respect Luke, what evidence do you have prove you are correct? I'm just trying to most accurate information possible l.

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I don't have evidence. I have an opinion like everyone else on this forum. I would NOT want to **** with the DOJ which is why I will not register.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The new laws starting 01-01-2017...

Penal Code 30680
Section 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:
(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.
(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.
(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

Penal Code 30900
(b)(1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).
(2) Registrations shall be submitted electronically via the Internet utilizing a public-facing application made available by the department.
(3) The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the date the firearm was acquired, the name and address of the individual from whom, or business from which, the firearm was acquired, as well as the registrant's full name, address, telephone number, date of birth, sex, height, weight, eye color, hair color, and California driver's license number or California identification card number.
(4) The department may charge a fee in an amount of up to fifteen dollars ($15) per person but not to exceed the reasonable processing costs of the department. The fee shall be paid by debit or credit card at the time that the electronic registration is submitted to the department. The fee shall be deposited in the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account to be used for purposes of this section.
(5) The department shall adopt regulations for the purpose of implementing this subdivision. These regulations are exempt from the Administrative Procedure Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of the Government Code).
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  #194  
Old 12-05-2016, 8:35 PM
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I dunno if they amended the new law but the post above is similar to what i remembered seeing
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  #195  
Old 12-05-2016, 9:10 PM
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All in all, very confusing. I appreciate all the help cal gunners. Hopefully some these laws change in the next 4 years....Pluke...are you going to make your rifles featureless since your not going to register???

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  #196  
Old 12-05-2016, 9:16 PM
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Anybody else having the same dilemma as I am?

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  #197  
Old 12-05-2016, 9:17 PM
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Default Anyone register an 80% need advice

I want to register my 80% lower before the end of the year, Ive engraved it with all required markings. my question is what forms do I need to submit and to where?
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  #198  
Old 12-05-2016, 9:19 PM
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sorry it posted early, I have form bof 4542A filled out "firearm ownership report" is that all I fill out and under how I acquired I mark othr and specify manufactured? thanks for any hep
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  #199  
Old 12-05-2016, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
Ok Luke so you THINK that home built rifles have to be built and registered with ATF by Dec 1, 2016 and Brian THINKS that it has to be built by Dec 1, 2016 but registered with the ATF by July 1, 2017 correct?

And this is why I am so confused with everything. With all do respect Luke, what evidence do you have prove you are correct? I'm just trying to most accurate information possible l.

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That's not exactly what I said. I'LL repeat it.

You have to possess the rifle prior to 1 Jan 2017. You do not have to register it prior to the first of the year, only be able too, meaning your not prohibited. There are thousands of rifles out there that are not registered, those bought prior to 2014 and almost every homebuilt made, they are not registered, and they do not need to be registered prior to the first if the year.

After 1 Jan, you can not build or obtain a rifle that meets the new assault rifle description. So you have to have it prior to the first of the year.

So if you have a completed 80% lower, and it is built into a centerfire rifle, and it has a detachable mag to include bullet button or mag lock configuration, and you have one Evil feature such as a pistol grip, flash hider, telescoping or folding stock to name a few, you have a firearm that meets the description of the new assault weapon. Time line to have this in your posesion is prior to 1 Jan 2017.

I never said you will register it with the ATF, because you will not, you will register it as an assault weapon with the CA Department of Justice.
What I said was you will engrave the required information as defined by the ATF onto the receiver, this step needs to be done prior to you registering next year, because they will need the info you put on the lower for the registration such as your name, city ,state where you made it. model # if asighned, caliber and the SN you assign to it, this should be done no later than 1 July of 2018, ( un serialized firearm new law time line, not assault weapon timeline) because if you dont, then you are required to apply to the state for your SN, you can do that if you want, but I think it's easier to just have a trophy shop or FFL engrave the lower with the required info (see ATF link provided earler) and a SN that you choose, maybe your birth day, or FUCA0001 or what ever you want as long as it meets ATF regs.

The grace period for registration will be the year of 2017 with the final day allowed to register being Dec 31st 2017.

You couldn't even register it as an assault weapon right now if you wanted too, the registration hasn't started or opened yet, at this point there's no way to do it. You could volantarily register the lower as a firearm once required info is engraved now, but this is not required, and has nothing to do with the upcoming assault weapon registratiom.

Last edited by brianm767; 12-06-2016 at 9:20 AM..
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Old 12-06-2016, 2:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chris.yniguez.89 View Post
Luke, another question? In one of your previous posts you did say: "Completed and Registered by Dec 31, 2016"- what did you mean by that? Also what if a person does build a complete "assault" rifle from an 80 lower after Dec 31, 2016 and registers it to CA DOJ in 2017? How would the CA DOJ know if it was or was not built prior to Dec 31, 2016? Just asksing. Thanks.

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Volreg before the end of year to enable use of your own SN. Consensus is that after the first of the year a CA doj number will be required.

As far as being able to prove that the firearm was built before the first of the year? Not sure. But the state is no friend.

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