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  #81  
Old 11-02-2016, 11:11 AM
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That's my interpretation.
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  #82  
Old 11-02-2016, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbastard View Post
My point is that, AFAIK, by end of next year (2017) you either have to:

1. Register your "featured" semi automatic rifle as RAW
2. Convert your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to a featureless semi automatic weapon (and can then lose the BB)
3. Transfer or sell your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to someone out of state.
4. Do nothing....and see what happens.

Sound about right?
There is still the grace period next year.

Though the new definition creates AW's out of currently bullet-buttoned featured builds on Jan 1, there will be no prosecution during 2017, therefore, you actually have until Jan 1 2018 to transfer the rifle to someone out of state (but I would NOT want to get caught with a featured build without a BB before it is registered).

I would not advise option 4.... 4-6-8 years and lifetime firearms prohibition.


Which brings me to a thought that I had a few days ago....

Someone recently posted the potential financial impact of either Prop 63 or the BB law and pointed out how costs to the state could potentially be significant due to the number of new felons at a cost of some 200k/year per prisoner.

It will never come to that.
Barring the commission of a REAL crime, being in possession of an AW is a non-violent offense.
The state will take you in, release you on bail or your OR, and at your trial, it will be 6 years probation and time served... and they will be smug in the knowledge that they have created yet another felon who will carry a lifetime firearms prohibition in ANY state of the union (and with a felony, you will have a difficult time moving to a different country... won't even be able to VISIT Canada!)

French Foreign Legion will be the only way you will ever have a gun again.
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  #83  
Old 11-02-2016, 8:59 PM
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It isn't that difficult. A rifle is either an AW or it isn't. DOJ does not and cannot know how your rifle isn't an AW, just that it isn't. If next year, the rifle you have that wasn't an AW today, would be under the new law, you can register it and keep it, or do those other things. If that doesn't describe your rifle, you can't register. When you register, you won't have to prove anything, you just fill it out truthfully and sign at the bottom. Every firearm form from the 4473 to new resident registration has a line that says "I declare under penalty of perjury...". If you didn't build the rifle until june 2017 but lie on the form and put a date in 2016, that's two crimes, perjury and manuf. an AW. ifilef's point of view claims that in 2018 you could be arrested for your featureless rifle and charged with AW violation because the assumption will be made that in some point in the rifle's past it must have been configured as an AW under the new law but before the new law existed, and therefore should have been registered. Also, currently registering rifles online as new residents specifically allows for "home built" as a selection, so here's to hoping they basically reuse the same form...
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  #84  
Old 11-03-2016, 11:38 PM
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Doesn't it have to be semi-auto to RAW?

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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
For the pistol you're correct, you have to initially build it as single shot so you aren't manufacturing an unsafe handgun. That doesn't mean it has to stay that way though. .
I think there was some debate about that. Some argued that conversion from single-shot to semi-auto could be considered manufacturing. Consensus appears to agree with you.
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  #85  
Old 11-03-2016, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 1st Generation Gun Owner View Post
Doesn't it have to be semi-auto to RAW?







I think there was some debate about that. Some argued that conversion from single-shot to semi-auto could be considered manufacturing. Consensus appears to agree with you.


It does have to be semi-auto. Once registered, I will convert it
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  #86  
Old 11-05-2016, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbastard View Post
My point is that, AFAIK, by end of next year (2017) you either have to:

1. Register your "featured" semi automatic rifle as RAW-(if you possessed it with a BB on or before 12/31/2016);

2. Convert your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to a featureless semi automatic weapon (and can then lose the BB... but must register it in 2017 and prudent to register it before dropping the BB....

3. Transfer or sell your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to someone out of state anyone here qualified to purchase by 12/21/2016. Reason: only current possessor would have duty to register his purchase in 2016 of a SACF featured rifle with BB that he retains possession of into 2017..

4. Do nothing....and see what happens-(that's okay to abstain from until the very end of next year, when you will likely need to register it as AW)..
FIFY above.

Also, if you sell it featured by 12/21/2016, or featureless by 12/21/2017, you will not need to register as AW. With the former, last buyer in 2016 has duty to register as AW in 2017. With the latter neither you nor buyer need to register as AW if sale takes place by 12/21/2017.

Current possessor would need to register it if they purchased it featured with BB by end of this year and continue in possession through 2017, no matter the configuration. Can't put the genie back into the lamp if possessed featured with BB.

Last edited by ifilef; 11-06-2016 at 1:27 PM..
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  #87  
Old 11-06-2016, 11:12 AM
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Tagged.
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  #88  
Old 11-06-2016, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post


For 2017, the definition of AW is not changing. It remains as it was in the quoted section of the law.
If a rifle is featureless today, it is not required to be registered next year (and it can never be converted to a featured form).
After all this time a lot of people have still not comprehended the definition
of an AW as used here in CA.
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  #89  
Old 11-06-2016, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4spd View Post
After all this time a lot of people have still not comprehended the definition of an AW as used here in CA.
Can't blame them with new laws being passed every year, and the combination of intentional misinformation in the media, and the media's ignorance and incompetence creating the inability to get it right.
I've been involved in and interviewed for a number of news stories related to my profession. I no longer make ANY statement to the media, even if they are doing a friendly PR piece.
EVERY single situation, by the time it was edited and broadcast or printed, it came out grossly incorrect, to the point that no accurate information was shared with the public.
It's their job to share information, but it goes through their filter and the result is no different than if I were to attempt to do a news story on brain surgery.

I've talked to several people who have built up ARs or purchased in the last year, one from an 80%, and knowing the guy who has it, I'm 90% sure that he did not machine or assemble it himself.
None of them have any CLUE as to the changes next year.

It'll be the same as 1990 and 2000. There might be 10% compliance (registration or removal from the state) among those who actually know the law, 10% refusal to comply, and 80% will become unwitting felons.

One of my bosses some 15 years ago had a Bushmaster that should have been registered and was not. He had no clue that California had a ban, he only knew that the 1994 federal bad did not apply to a gun that he already owned. That gun now lives in a safe at his condo in AZ.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
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  #90  
Old 11-06-2016, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
FIFY above.

Also, if you sell it featured by 12/21/2016, or featureless by 12/21/2017, you will not need to register as AW. With the former, last buyer in 2016 has duty to register as AW in 2017. With the latter neither you nor buyer need to register as AW if sale takes place by 12/21/2017.

Current possessor would need to register it if they purchased it featured with BB by end of this year and continue in possession through 2017, no matter the configuration. Can't put the genie back into the lamp if possessed featured with BB.
So you are implying if you had a BB equipped rifle and convert it to a featureless rifle before Jan 1 2017, it will still need to be registered?

Also not answered, if you have a BB rifle, register it, since it is now classified as an AW, is there any reason to retain the BB once it is registered?
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  #91  
Old 11-06-2016, 1:35 PM
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Default AW for registration purposes vs. new definition of AW eff. 1/1/2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by GM4spd View Post
After all this time a lot of people have still not comprehended the definition
of an AW as used here in CA.
That's because the registration statute's (amended PC 30900(b)(1) definition mandating registration differs from amended 30515.

As to the former, if one ever possessed it with a BB during the applicable period it is considered an AW, no matter what you later do to it. IOW, current configuration is not relevant for purposes of that statute.

With the latter, current configuration is relevant.

So, one should understand the distinguishing characteristics of each statute.

30900(b)(1) applies retrospectively during the applicable period from 2001 to 2016, whereas 30515 applies prospectively from 1/1/2017 forward.
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  #92  
Old 11-06-2016, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb View Post
So you are implying if you had a BB equipped rifle and convert it to a featureless rifle before Jan 1 2017, it will still need to be registered?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb View Post
Also not answered, if you have a BB rifle, register it, since it is now classified as an AW, is there any reason to retain the BB once it is registered?
Remains to be seen, but standard mag release probably ok provided that you first register as AW. That was the opinion given in the CRPA webinar, also.

I would feel fine shooting with BB next year without registering as AW (but do register it as AW by 12/31/2017), yet would feel mighty uncomfortable shooting with a standard magazine release and an unregistered AW...could very likely lead to a felony arrest.

Why?

Because shooting with a standard mag release with a SACF featured weapon is presently unlawful, while presently shooting with a BB IS lawful, which makes it a firearm eligible to be registered under the new statute. So, given the grace period, it would apply to BB weapons but not to ones with a standard magazine release.

Last edited by ifilef; 11-06-2016 at 2:13 PM..
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  #93  
Old 11-07-2016, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb View Post
So you are implying if you had a BB equipped rifle and convert it to a featureless rifle before Jan 1 2017, it will still need to be registered?

Also not answered, if you have a BB rifle, register it, since it is now classified as an AW, is there any reason to retain the BB once it is registered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
That's because the registration statute's (amended PC 30900(b)(1) definition mandating registration differs from amended 30515.

As to the former, if one ever possessed it with a BB during the applicable period it is considered an AW, no matter what you later do to it. IOW, current configuration is not relevant for purposes of that statute.

With the latter, current configuration is relevant.

So, one should understand the distinguishing characteristics of each statute.

30900(b)(1) applies retrospectively during the applicable period from 2001 to 2016, whereas 30515 applies prospectively from 1/1/2017 forward.
He leaves out the fact that the statute doesn't say anything about current possession, or ownership at any point, either. It says that if you ever lawfully possessed it, you must register it. It doesn't have any exceptions to that.

Do I really think they want you to register guns that you don't own (or never owned)? No. But ifilef claims his interpretation of the law is the right one, even though it requires assuming they don't mean exactly what they say. 90% of people here seem to think that if it's no longer featured/BB'd that you don't need to register it, which also requires assuming they don't mean exactly what they say. ifilef hasn't given a good explanation for why his interpretation of what part of the law isn't what they mean is the right one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
Yes.



Remains to be seen, but standard mag release probably ok provided that you first register as AW. That was the opinion given in the CRPA webinar, also.

I would feel fine shooting with BB next year without registering as AW (but do register it as AW by 12/31/2017), yet would feel mighty uncomfortable shooting with a standard magazine release and an unregistered AW...could very likely lead to a felony arrest.

Why?

Because shooting with a standard mag release with a SACF featured weapon is presently unlawful, while presently shooting with a BB IS lawful, which makes it a firearm eligible to be registered under the new statute. So, given the grace period, it would apply to BB weapons but not to ones with a standard magazine release.
Starting 1/1/17 it's an AW if it's featured/BB'd. There's no law prohibiting making an AW more assaulty (as long as you don't break other laws). There's no prosecution allowed next year for possession of an AW if you possessed it ahead of time.
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  #94  
Old 11-07-2016, 12:52 PM
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Default Registering 80% AR Rifle build as AW?

I have a few AR-15 rifles that I have built from 80% lowers that I intend to register as assault weapons come next year. They are currently configured with bullet buttons. I do not wish to go the featureless route at this time for most of them (I will have one set up featureless). My understanding is that before January 1st, 2017 I should have them engraved as per ATF guidelines in order to have a manufacturer, model, and serial number. My question is this: For the registration form how will I specify how I acquired the weapon? Will there be an option to specify that the firearm was homebuilt, and if so how will I prove that the firearm was built prior to 2017? Will I be using my name as manufacturer and the serial number I make up on the AW registration forms? Any advice would be appreciated.
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  #95  
Old 11-07-2016, 1:46 PM
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I didn't think they had to be engraved before the end of the year, but I guess if they aren't it's difficult to show that they were AWs in time.

I'm not sure how you'd prove it, that's a concern I have as well. Even if you do a VolReg that doesn't prove that the gun exists.
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  #96  
Old 11-08-2016, 9:10 AM
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finally found what I was looking for
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  #97  
Old 11-11-2016, 9:37 PM
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Default 80% lower with maglock. Serial #?

I found an engraving shop that will mark all my 80% lowers. The 80s are all AR pistols with fixed mags. After marking, am I required to submit any paperwork cal DOJ? Or anybody?

I read through all the threads. I'm just double and triple checking for confirmation. I called cal DOJ but they didn't know yet and told me to call back


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Last edited by tokyodrftr; 11-11-2016 at 9:39 PM..
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  #98  
Old 11-12-2016, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tokyodrftr View Post
IAfter marking, am I required to submit any paperwork cal DOJ? Or anybody?
For now...
You are not required to report/register the firearms.
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  #99  
Old 11-12-2016, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
For now...

You are not required to report/register the firearms.


Thanks for confirming


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  #100  
Old 11-12-2016, 9:31 AM
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For now...

You are not required to report/register the firearms.


We do not need to pay the $19 and send in the ownership form?


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  #101  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:29 PM
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Default 80% lowers

I have a question for our more knowledgeable members. I apologize in advance if my questions have been asked and answered. Many times it is a lot of work to phrase the search to receive an answer that is viable. It is a multipart question.
So here goes, If I buy two 80% lowers for an AR-15 & AR-10 prior to Dec.31st, 2016 and use a Thordsen stocks for each, do I have to register them as an assault rifles, or are they considered a featureless rifle because they do not have a pistol grip? Am I under any obligation to the state to finish both of these rifles prior to Dec. 31st, 2016? Do I need to have a serial number on these rifles if I do all the work?
Thank you for any info you might shed on my questions.
All the best,
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Last edited by RPC56; 11-13-2016 at 10:32 PM.. Reason: grammar
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  #102  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:40 PM
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My kung-fu not so strong, but this should answer at least part of your question:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1225675
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  #103  
Old 11-14-2016, 6:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC56 View Post
So here goes, If I buy two 80% lowers for an AR-15 & AR-10 prior to Dec.31st, 2016 and use a Thordsen stocks for each, do I have to register them as an assault rifles, or are they considered a featureless rifle because they do not have a pistol grip?
If they are built without any restricted features, then they are not considered assault weapons and there is no requirement to register them as assault weapons during the 2017 registration time period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC56 View Post
Am I under any obligation to the state to finish both of these rifles prior to Dec. 31st, 2016?
If they are being built without any restricted features, then there is no requirement to build them before 2017.

If you intend to register them as assault weapons, then they need to be made before 01-01-2017.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC56 View Post
Do I need to have a serial number on these rifles if I do all the work?
Not right now, but eventually they will need to be marked (before 2019).

If you mark them before 07-01-2018, then you can use your own information to do so and they do not have to be registered with CA DOJ.

After 06-30-2018, you will need to obtain CA DOJ approval and marking information to mark them. This process will register them with CA DOJ.

Starting 01-01-2019, it will be illegal to possess home made firearms without any marking information.
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  #104  
Old 11-14-2016, 9:31 AM
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Many thanks to MechaDad and Quiet, your time and effort to answer my questions is greatly appreciated.
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  #105  
Old 11-14-2016, 11:59 AM
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Default New laws and 80% builds

Can anyone please tell me how the new laws affect 80% builds?
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  #106  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:04 PM
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The new laws only applies to guns. 80%'ers are not guns.
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  #107  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:11 PM
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I submitted this morning. With 3x pictures as described. I'll let you guys know if anything goes weird.
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Old 11-14-2016, 12:12 PM
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So you will still be able to buy and build and finish them?
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  #109  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:19 PM
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Use search you will get answers some fud from dummies and some facts. Just do not finish any polymers .
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Old 11-14-2016, 1:07 PM
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What kind of gun?
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I will never buy another Spikes Tactical item, as I have a 5.45 marked barrel from them with a 5.56 bore that keyholed at 25 yards, and they wouldn't replace it.

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  #111  
Old 11-14-2016, 2:38 PM
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K so I did that before asking. Why no polymers?
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  #112  
Old 11-14-2016, 2:44 PM
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serialized 80's. not "receiver only". Legally compliant as of today's laws.
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Old 11-14-2016, 2:51 PM
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http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201520160AB857

Because for polymer you will be required to permanently add metal into them as per compliance measures in the link above. Sounds painful.

Generally speaking, just read the sections of the bill above. Specifically, 29180 and 29181 have the meat of how this law affects you, 80's, and you and 80's. Apply as needed to your situation and act accordingly.

Pay attention to the dates, those play a factor too. make sure you cross reference those dates with the AW bill to make sure your plans are consistent with the storm that is coming.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201520160SB880
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  #114  
Old 11-15-2016, 5:05 PM
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i understand that for now it doesn't need to be registered. However, if I intend to register a home build as an AW, would I need to register it first to advise of its existence and then register as AW? Or would it be a one shot deal?
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Old 11-17-2016, 9:06 AM
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Question Completed 80% AR Pistol Transfer

I am not sure if this thread belong here or another so please move as appropriate.

If one wants to buy or sell a home made AR pistol lower (with full ATF marking) then I think it should go thru FFL to comply with the law. In doing so, the lower would be considered registered and can be register as AW next year if need be. Right or wrong?
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Old 11-17-2016, 9:13 AM
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Yes, it has to go through an FFL just like any other firearm.

Yes, it would be registered to the buyer.

Yes, it should be eligible for AW registration next year.


IANAL though, and contact the FFL first to make sure they're willing to transfer a homebuild.
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Old 11-17-2016, 9:14 AM
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Wouldn't it also have to be marked with the required stuff as well?
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Old 11-17-2016, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Yes, it has to go through an FFL just like any other firearm.

Yes, it would be registered to the buyer.

Yes, it should be eligible for AW registration next year.


IANAL though, and contact the FFL first to make sure they're willing to transfer a homebuild.
Thanks for the advise on FFL.


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Wouldn't it also have to be marked with the required stuff as well?
Yes, I updated the post just before you reply.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:13 AM
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Wait? What?

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought %80 lowers turned into self-manufactured firearms are fine for personal use but if you plan to sell them/transfer them then you require approval from the ATF in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92. [18 U.S.C. 923(i), 26 U.S.C. 5822].

In which case if you become a firearm manufacturer the whole 80% lower thing is moot, you can just go ahead and manufacture completed receivers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here but the impression given is 80% lowers [self made firearms] is personal use only.

Or is this something where the powers that be wasn't specific enough, and you could be in a situation where you changed your mind later and wanted to sell 1. Has there been a case where there has been a 80% finished to 100% lower been transfered?

Last edited by Geared Hub; 11-17-2016 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Geared Hub View Post
Wait? What?

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought %80 lowers turned into self-manufactured firearms are fine for personal use but if you plan to sell them/transfer them then you require approval from the ATF in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92. [18 U.S.C. 923(i), 26 U.S.C. 5822].

In which case if you become a firearm manufacturer the whole 80% lower thing is moot, you can just go ahead and manufacture completed receivers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here but the impression given is 80% lowers [self made firearms] is personal use only.
My impression is that you can't manufacture for the purpose of sale, and if you later decide to sell it's legal (if properly marked).
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