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  #281  
Old 02-11-2017, 4:52 PM
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Default What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)

Can you legally store a RAW in your trunk?
I would just like to leave one in the car


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  #282  
Old 02-11-2017, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyodrftr View Post
Can you legally store a RAW in your trunk?
I would just like to leave one in the car
Only if you never move the car - RAWs are subject to 'destination requirements' - that's in the first post.
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  #283  
Old 02-14-2017, 9:42 PM
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Can anyone help me out with storage requirements in a school zone?

I cannot bolt a safe to the floor and really have no room for a full-on rifle safe. May I simply use a cable lock or even just leave it in the closet? Ammo would be locked in a small safe.

I could have sworn I read there were enhanced storage requirements in a school zone.
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  #284  
Old 02-14-2017, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spsurf48 View Post
Can anyone help me out with storage requirements in a school zone?

I cannot bolt a safe to the floor and really have no room for a full-on rifle safe. May I simply use a cable lock or even just leave it in the closet? Ammo would be locked in a small safe.

I could have sworn I read there were enhanced storage requirements in a school zone.
Nope.

Some cities may require storage in a safe, but state law only dictates that IF a minor gains access to your gun(s) and causes injury or damage, you may be held criminally liable if you reasonably knew that said minor may gain access.

IOTW... no kids, no visitors, no legal requirement to keep your guns locked in a safe.
AW are required to be transported in a secure locking container.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #285  
Old 02-15-2017, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
AW are required to be transported in a secure locking container.
I suspect that's the point of confusion. Non-AWs do not need to be locked in a secure container during transport through a school zone; AWs do.
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  #286  
Old 02-15-2017, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Nope.

Some cities may require storage in a safe, but state law only dictates that IF a minor gains access to your gun(s) and causes injury or damage, you may be held criminally liable if you reasonably knew that said minor may gain access.

IOTW... no kids, no visitors, no legal requirement to keep your guns locked in a safe.
AW are required to be transported in a secure locking container.
Thanks for the answer, I will look up my local city codes. I have never had a minor in my apartment, and never will so I tend not to worry but the RAW laws are a new beast to understand.
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  #287  
Old 02-16-2017, 1:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Nope.

Some cities may require storage in a safe, but state law only dictates that IF a minor gains access to your gun(s) and causes injury or damage, you may be held criminally liable if you reasonably knew that said minor may gain access.

IOTW... no kids, no visitors, no legal requirement to keep your guns locked in a safe.
AW are required to be transported in a secure locking container.
RAW should be stored in a manner so that no one but the registered owner has access to them.

If someone other than the owner can access them, then they can be charged with possession of an AW. [PC 30605(a)]
^If the DA's Office is aggressive, they can also charge the owner for illegal transfer of an AW. [PC 30600(a)]

The only time someone other than the owner can legally possess the RAW, is when both the owner and the other person are at a target range or at a LE sponsored display/event. [PC 30660]
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  #288  
Old 02-16-2017, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
RAW should be stored in a manner so that no one but the registered owner has access to them.

If someone other than the owner can access them, then they can be charged with possession of an AW. [PC 30605(a)]
^If the DA's Office is aggressive, they can also charge the owner for illegal transfer of an AW. [PC 30600(a)]

The only time someone other than the owner can legally possess the RAW, is when both the owner and the other person are at a target range or at a LE sponsored display/event. [PC 30660]
Registration did (and still does per the withdrawn documents) allow for registration of multiple adult residents of the same address (with one person named as the primary registrant). This covers residents.

Visitors would fall under the "reasonable person" believing that they would not have access (provided that measures are taken to reasonably conceal and store.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #289  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Registration did (and still does per the withdrawn documents) allow for registration of multiple adult residents of the same address (with one person named as the primary registrant). This covers residents.
This is applicable if there are no minors residing at that location.
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  #290  
Old 02-17-2017, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
This is applicable if there are no minors residing at that location.
Multiple registrants would still apply, but locked storage would also apply.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #291  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:23 PM
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Can I register my AW and then shorten it below 30" (still keeping 16" barrel)?
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  #292  
Old 03-14-2017, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlini View Post
Can I register my AW and then shorten it below 30" (still keeping 16" barrel)?
Don't know yet. Keep waiting.
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  #293  
Old 03-23-2017, 11:04 PM
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Question:

If I were to register all 3 of my AR-15s, when I retire I can un-register them, take them apart including the buffertube and grips. Could I legally transport them across state line?
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  #294  
Old 03-23-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _TomT_ View Post
Question:

If I were to register all 3 of my AR-15s, when I retire I can un-register them, take them apart including the buffertube and grips. Could I legally transport them across state line?
1)You can take them apart without de-registering them. Only the receiver is registered. Everything else is an unregulated item.

2)You can transport your registered guns across state lines without de-registering them. They are only regulated/registered in CA. Most other states don't care. All of CA's neighboring states don't care.
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  #295  
Old 03-24-2017, 10:39 AM
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Yep.
If you are going to retire to a free state, there's no need to bother.
For one, it's a multiple-month process (one guy here has been trying to de-register his 2001 SB23 build for over a year), and the status is 100% irrelevant outside of California.

If in the future, AW laws are enacted in other states, you will be subject to their laws i.e. if you move to New Mexico in 2024 and they enact an AWB in 2020, you will not be able to take a featured build with you whether registered here or not... it would have to be compliant with NM laws when you import it.
If NM enacts an AWB after you move, you will have to either register or make compliant for their laws... the CA registration would not transfer.


California registration does not "make" a rifle an AW, nor does it change its status outside of California.
California registration ONLY provides an exemption from prosecution under California law for possession and transportation of that specific AW. It does not make the gun a non-AW and does not change its legal status... it merely shields the registrant(s) from prosecution.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #296  
Old 03-24-2017, 4:41 PM
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Ahh ok thank you guys. One more question, as long as the AR is not in one piece I can transport them across stateline without getting arrested correct?
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  #297  
Old 03-24-2017, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by _TomT_ View Post
Ahh ok thank you guys. One more question, as long as the AR is not in one piece I can transport them across stateline without getting arrested correct?
That one gets a bit hairy.

The (withdrawn) DOJ regs stated that an upper and lower that are separated is not a semiautomatic firearm, thus, AW laws would not apply.

BUT... Nguyen and possibly one other case have established case law that a person CAN be convicted under intent (suspect admitted to intent to construct an AW), or "A broken AW is still an AW" (suspect had removed the bolt from an AW).

Safest route would be to either register, or to make them compliant with 2017 law prior to the end of this year.

Crossing the state line leaving California would not be a legal problem... the issue is possession and transport within California.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #298  
Old 03-25-2017, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
That one gets a bit hairy.

The (withdrawn) DOJ regs stated that an upper and lower that are separated is not a semiautomatic firearm, thus, AW laws would not apply.

BUT... Nguyen and possibly one other case have established case law that a person CAN be convicted under intent (suspect admitted to intent to construct an AW), or "A broken AW is still an AW" (suspect had removed the bolt from an AW).

Safest route would be to either register, or to make them compliant with 2017 law prior to the end of this year.

Crossing the state line leaving California would not be a legal problem... the issue is possession and transport within California.
This shouldn't be an issue for a few years anyways, but I guess before I cross I will:

1. remove birdcage
2. remove grips

I can at least keep the buffer tube on right?
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  #299  
Old 03-25-2017, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _TomT_ View Post
This shouldn't be an issue for a few years anyways, but I guess before I cross I will:

1. remove birdcage
2. remove grips

I can at least keep the buffer tube on right?
Are you talking about crossing out of CA or crossing into CA. Very different scenarios.
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  #300  
Old 03-25-2017, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _TomT_ View Post
This shouldn't be an issue for a few years anyways, but I guess before I cross I will:

1. remove birdcage
2. remove grips

I can at least keep the buffer tube on right?
"Crossing" is not an issue.
The issue is when IN California, and the issue will be VERY pertinent on Jan 1 2018 whether you ever intend to leave or not.
As of Jan 1 2018, the guns must be either compliant with 2017 law, or be registered as AW.

If registered as AW, you can legally transport them to or from specific destinations where they are legal to possess (i.e. home and a free state) within a locked container.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #301  
Old 04-15-2017, 9:02 AM
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So how do 3-gun participants go back and forth with their competition rifles? The ammo law screws things up badly enough....
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  #302  
Old 05-13-2017, 3:13 PM
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In regards to the RAW, since I'm not a lawyer or nor do I have a legal team. I read the beginning of the thread a couple times to really make sure that I'm thoroughly confused. The only two choices one has in CA is to "Register Assault Weapon" or to make it "featureless". If one does not want to register. Has the state recognized the methods and ways to make a rifle "featureless" and or have they recognized the options that people have to replace BB? Example; the one you have to split the upper and lower to drop the magazine? In your opinion, is it beneficial to register or do the latter. I'm trying to formulate my own decision and my friends just spread as much disinformation as useful information.

I like to travel in and out of the state to visit family in NV & AZ. We do family gatherings, time of the year dependent, food and bullets go hand in hand. I want to be lawful and not knowing is hampering that idea.
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  #303  
Old 05-13-2017, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhhohh View Post
In regards to the RAW, since I'm not a lawyer or nor do I have a legal team. I read the beginning of the thread a couple times to really make sure that I'm thoroughly confused. The only two choices one has in CA is to "Register Assault Weapon" or to make it "featureless". If one does not want to register. Has the state recognized the methods and ways to make a rifle "featureless" and or have they recognized the options that people have to replace BB? Example; the one you have to split the upper and lower to drop the magazine? In your opinion, is it beneficial to register or do the latter. I'm trying to formulate my own decision and my friends just spread as much disinformation as useful information.

I like to travel in and out of the state to visit family in NV & AZ. We do family gatherings, time of the year dependent, food and bullets go hand in hand. I want to be lawful and not knowing is hampering that idea.
Pretty sure the won't officially recognize anything. They haven't recognized the original BBv1. Only tacit approval by not prosecuting dealers and owners.
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  #304  
Old 05-13-2017, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Pretty sure the won't officially recognize anything. They haven't recognized the original BBv1. Only tacit approval by not prosecuting dealers and owners.
Not exactly.

While that was the case from 2006 until 2013, at the beginning of 2014, long guns went through the full DROS/Registration process that handguns went through.

At that point, the DOJ could no longer disavow knowledge of BB builds.
Not only did they complete DROS on rifles, but also, for 2 years, AR and AK pistols approved under SSE and using only the BB to lock the zero round sled.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #305  
Old 05-13-2017, 4:00 PM
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So basically hold tight and wait and see. Hopefully not be the one that becomes and example that everyone gauges their decisions by.
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  #306  
Old 06-15-2017, 2:55 PM
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Will we be able to leave a magnet on the BB while target shooting after it has been registered as an AW? Or do we still need to use a tool to remove the mag on a registered AW? I've read the doj's newly released pdf but as usual they just keep us guessing.
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  #307  
Old 06-15-2017, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hokanut View Post
Will we be able to leave a magnet on the BB while target shooting after it has been registered as an AW? Or do we still need to use a tool to remove the mag on a registered AW? I've read the doj's newly released pdf but as usual they just keep us guessing.
If its OK to leave a magnet on it then its OK to put a regular mag release on it so the question really is 'can I have a regular mag release on my RAW?'.
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  #308  
Old 06-15-2017, 3:36 PM
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Folks, this thread is for what one does with 'assault weapons' already successfully registered.

Discussion of the mess associated with the 2017 registration goes to the thread in 2A Politics and Activism.
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  #309  
Old 07-27-2017, 4:52 PM
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So a gunsmith needs a permit to work on AW's?
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  #310  
Old 07-27-2017, 5:13 PM
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So a gunsmith needs a permit to work on AW's?
Not sure but you could take a gun apart if the gunsmith only needs to work on a non-serialized part.
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  #311  
Old 07-27-2017, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jesse977 View Post
So a gunsmith needs a permit to work on AW's?
http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-co...ect-31050.html
Quote:
(a) Any licensed gun dealer may take possession of any assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle for the purposes of servicing or repair from any person to whom it is legally registered or who has been issued a permit to possess it pursuant to this chapter.

(b) Any licensed gun dealer may transfer possession of any assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle received pursuant to subdivision (a), to a gunsmith for purposes of accomplishing service or repair of that weapon.  A transfer is permissible only to the following persons:

(1) A gunsmith who is in the dealer's employ.

(2) A gunsmith with whom the dealer has contracted for gunsmithing services.

(c) In order for paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) to apply, the gunsmith receiving the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle shall hold all of the following:

(1) A dealer's license issued pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(2) Any business license required by a state or local governmental entity.

Last edited by Dvrjon; 07-27-2017 at 5:23 PM..
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  #312  
Old 07-27-2017, 7:28 PM
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Does anyone know of a gunsmith that has that license? Have they been issued?
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  #313  
Old 07-27-2017, 8:03 PM
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Does anyone know of a gunsmith that has that license? Have they been issued?
It's an FFL.
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  #314  
Old 08-01-2017, 7:04 AM
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It's really a nice information because carrying RAW fire-arms must need some legal support and this post is helping clearly on that.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plead the Second View Post
There is a nightmare of deliberate, potential gotchas here for law-abiding responsible gun owners to get hammered with if a zealous prosecutor chooses to..

People may wish to be very, very cautious, and as a warning to what can happen if you are not in perfect technical compliance with laws in an anti-gun state, read Brian Aiken's book, The Blue Tent Sky: How the Left's War on Guns Cost Me My Son and My Freedom (available on Amazon).
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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  #316  
Old 08-02-2017, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmassarano View Post
It's my understanding that if you build out the AR15 in 2016 with a pistol grip, flash hider and a bullet button, you have until the end of next year to register it as an Assault Weapon. And, if you convert it to a "featureless rifle" (i.e., lose the pistol grip and flash hider, then dump the BB) before 01/01/2018 you don't ever have to register it as an Assault Weapon.
I would hesitate to say EVER, as in NEVER SAY NEVER.

The Kommies are NEVER going to quit until this anti-gun nonsense gets somehow broken off in their you-know-what.

Many people will convert their newly reclassified ARs and AKs to featureless, and the next thing the Kommies will do is reclassify THOSE as AWs. It will probably be more difficult without classifiying ALL semi-autos as AWs, but nothing they do has to make sense, and it takes NRA/CRPA/FPC/SAF YEARS to undo in the sometimes equally anti-gun courts, what these cockroaches can pass and sign into law in a matter of days or weeks... and THEN not always successfully.

But I do have a question about two specific weapons I don't see mentioned here except in years old threads:

1. None of this applies to rimfire, correct? Specifically would this apply to a S&W M&P 15-22 AR that was manufactured as a 22LR? Even though it is technically possible to swap out the upper and mags, and use the thing thing to shoot whatever caliber that polymer lower can withstand (or until it breaks)? (Shhhh! Don't tell THEM that!)

2. This would not apply to the Kel Tec SU-16 that was legal before, with a fixed stock?

3. There are some of these laws that make possession of the parts illegal, such as possession of a M1 Carbine AND the M2 parts to make the M1 Carbine fully automatic. I'm certain there are other examples that I can't think of at the moment. Does this law make it illegal to possess a "featureless" AR AND the removed "evil" pistol grip, collapsible stock and flash hider?

4. And with regards to #1 above, the law applies to the lower receiver configuration, and the fixture screwed onto the barrel. Even if one were to replace the bolt with a 22LR conversion bolt and mags, it would still have to be a registered AW or "featureless", correct?

Last edited by dolfinwriter; 08-02-2017 at 12:32 AM..
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  #317  
Old 08-02-2017, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dolfinwriter View Post
Many people will convert their newly reclassified ARs and AKs to featureless, and the next thing the Kommies will do is reclassify THOSE as AWs. It will probably be more difficult without classifiying ALL semi-autos as AWs,
They already did.
Brown vetoed it in 2013
It was raised again last year, but died in committee.

Be sure, if it doesn't come up again in 2017 or 2018, it absolutely will come up again in 2019 when Governor Newsom is at the helm.
Heck, he'll author the bill for them like he did Prop63.

Quote:
1. None of this applies to rimfire, correct? Specifically would this apply to a S&W M&P 15-22 AR that was manufactured as a 22LR? Even though it is technically possible to swap out the upper and mags, and use the thing thing to shoot whatever caliber that polymer lower can withstand (or until it breaks)? (Shhhh! Don't tell THEM that!)
It applies to centerfire rifles and all pistols, so the M&P15-22 is safe for now.
It would become an AW as soon as the centerfire upper is attached.

Quote:
2. This would not apply to the Kel Tec SU-16 that was legal before, with a fixed stock?
Correct.
If a bullet button was not required in 2016, it is still a legal featureless build until they ban it.

Quote:
3. There are some of these laws that make possession of the parts illegal, such as possession of a M1 Carbine AND the M2 parts to make the M1 Carbine fully automatic. I'm certain there are other examples that I can't think of at the moment. Does this law make it illegal to possess a "featureless" AR AND the removed "evil" pistol grip, collapsible stock and flash hider?
No.

The only changes to the law are the elimination of the "Bullet Button" as a legal method of locking the magazine.
The DOJ regs actually clarified that a separated upper and lower do NOT constitute an AW, which effectively rules out... cautiously... constructive possession.

The machine gun parts issue is federal.

Now... "cautiously".....
Nguyen was convicted under what was effectively "constructive possession", however, his case had more color than a box of 64 Crayolas.
He was a felon in possession.
He admitted that he intended to construct an AW.


Quote:
4. And with regards to #1 above, the law applies to the lower receiver configuration, and the fixture screwed onto the barrel. Even if one were to replace the bolt with a 22LR conversion bolt and mags, it would still have to be a registered AW or "featureless", correct?
The drop-in 22lr conversion kits are dangerous ground. The barrel still indicates 5.56, the buffer remains functional.
Case law supports conviction of possession of an AW should *only* the bolt be removed, which in this case, the bolt is replaced with the adapter.

A dedicated .22lr upper that can not chamber a centerfire round would be legal.
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Old 08-02-2017, 6:54 PM
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In regards to the RAW, since I'm not a lawyer or nor do I have a legal team. I read the beginning of the thread a couple times to really make sure that I'm thoroughly confused. The only two choices one has in CA is to "Register Assault Weapon" or to make it "featureless".
Or alternative methods of fixing the magazine in place, such as the Franklin DFM, Patriot Button, and Hogue is getting ready to release a modification kit that is internal to the lower (requires drilling and tapping).

Quote:
Has the state recognized the methods and ways to make a rifle "featureless" and or have they recognized the options that people have to replace BB? Example; the one you have to split the upper and lower to drop the magazine?
Yes and no.

No, they have not and will not formally issue a statement that a specific product is legal, however, they stabbed themselves in the back in 2014 by requiring long gun DROS/Registration.

Prior to 2014, the DOJ received no information about the rifle from the DROS entry. "Cokebottle bought a Long Gun" was all they got.

After 2014, the same information is transmitted as handguns, including make, model, caliber, barrel length, etc....
By virtue of their approval of these transfers for 2 years, they gave tacit approval to featureless and the bullet button's legality prior to 2017.
By virtue of their approval of these transfers for the last 8 months, they gave tacit approval to featureless and the bullet button replacement legality this year.

Quote:
In your opinion, is it beneficial to register or do the latter. I'm trying to formulate my own decision and my friends just spread as much disinformation as useful information.
IMHO, how long do you intend to remain in California?

Ultimately, all semiautomatic weapons will be banned and registered.
As we move forward, those who register later will be progressively more screwed.

Those who registered in 2000 can still drop their mags.
Those who register in 2017/2018 will be stuck with their bullet button.
Those who go featureless or fixed-magazine will ultimately be stuck in THAT configuration, and be forced to register.

If you do not intend to remain in California beyond 2022 or so, go featureless or fixed mag and stick it out.
If you're a lifer, may as well register now while you can still at least use the bullet button. You'll still be able to alter to a detachable magazine pattern out of state, which is a lot easier than converting to and from featureless as you travel.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 08-02-2017, 7:11 PM
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Admonish, admonish!

Folks, this thread is about guns ALREADY REGISTERED. That's why the thread title is
"What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)"

Discussion of how to register or avoid registration in 2017 and later is off topic for this thread.
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  #320  
Old 08-02-2017, 8:21 PM
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Prediction:

Even legally purchased and registered AW firearms will be banned. Just like hi cap magazines.
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