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Concealed Carry Holsters, Equipment and Accessories Questions, answers and discussions regarding equipment specific to concealed carry.

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  #1  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:26 AM
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Default Off body carry

We spend most of our time concentrating on methods of on body carry, which as most of us know, is the best and most successful way to assure we have a weapon when needed.

Most ascribe off body carry to women, usually in gun purses. The fact is there are a lot of professionals that carry off body, more often for backup guns or ammunition than primary guns, but there are times when even the primary weapon is concealed in an off body system.

I just thought I would stir the water. How many carry that large frame gun that you first had on your permit say your 5" 1911, or Sig 226 with rail mounted accessories, as a back up in a briefcase, or backpack pack, concealed carry jacket. How many carry 3,4,5 spare mags? Tactical medical kit? It's all hard to do on body, but not off body.

For the ladies there are purses, we even have a new line of locking purses from a well know fashion house, and we have leather top access, side access locking purses from another manufacture. Women have options beyond the purse.

Interestingly off body is more likely to be used by professionals than civilians, as noted it's often not the primary weapon, however for security inspection reasons there are advantages to off body.

How many of you have an off body system. Jacket, backpack, sling bag, fanny pack, folio, purse, car holster, bed holster?
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:30 AM
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Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
226 might even be harder.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:51 AM
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I have the 5.11 MOAB that I'll use for off body carry. My full size XD isn't the smallest framed gun to carry on my persons. It has a med kit (sort of, working on it) and I usually carry atleast two extra mags with it.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
Not so much. I carry a S&W 1006 IWB at 4:00 all the time with no issues (thanks Crossbreed Quikclip). Granted it's not a 1911 but it was based on one.

Now back to OP. I have been thinking about a nice briefcase. Not so much for off body carry but as you suggested, extra mags first aid etc, locked and cabled in the back of the SUV so I don't need to worry about it on school property.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
It all depends on your body type and choice of dress. I'm 5'7, 160 lbs. and can comfortably conceal a full sized 1911 in a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB under a light jacket without any problems. Your mileage will vary.

Personally I do not recommend off-body carry for two reasons. First because it's easy to forget or leave that bag someplace. Second (and more importantly) because any bag is a target for thieves/robbers. A "purse snatcher" could yank that bag away from you before you have a chance to react. A robber wants you to hand it over.

Here's an example of an off-duty cop who was robbed. He put what was in his hands down and then went for his OWB(?) when the crook was distracted. https://youtu.be/cqv2_BZcipI?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

Here's an example of a Venezuelan off-duty cop who was robbed. If he was carrying off-body then he would have kissed his pistol good-bye. https://youtu.be/Riqv-a5NeWM?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

And here's some examples of how easy it is for crooks to grab your bag when you put it down. Granted it's on a beach in Rio, but you get the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OkmaRWJ9i4
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Old 08-23-2016, 4:10 PM
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I'm not all saying it's impossible, I'm just saying a full size frame wouldn't be my first choice to try and conceal. I'm not exactly a model of fitness so it would be even harder for me.

To answer the OP, I don't think I would ever consider an off-body carry. I'd have to find a way to keep it on me at all times.
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Old 08-23-2016, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
Actually my two smallest (shortest and lightest weight) clients both carry a 5" 1911, one with a tactical light. Not the weapon I would have chosen, but they are both very good, and very comfortable with them. But I admit for me it would be a back up gun carried off body.
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Old 08-23-2016, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
226 might even be harder.
226 is actually easier, 1" less muzzle and the slightly shorter double stack grip makes it easier to conceal than the 5" 1911.
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Old 08-23-2016, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Not so much. I carry a S&W 1006 IWB at 4:00 all the time with no issues (thanks Crossbreed Quikclip). Granted it's not a 1911 but it was based on one.

Now back to OP. I have been thinking about a nice briefcase. Not so much for off body carry but as you suggested, extra mags first aid etc, locked and cabled in the back of the SUV so I don't need to worry about it on school property.
Might suggest a bail out bag vs. briefcase depending on the actual load out plan.

2/3rds of the first aid kit can be assembled at the dollar store, the isreali gauge, and some of the specialty bandages on ebay, the hardest thing to find at a good price are the chest seals. Lot of them on ebay and at surplus stores but they are close to expiring or expired, and if I need one I don't want to skimp there. Done right doesn't take a lot of room.
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Old 08-23-2016, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
It all depends on your body type and choice of dress. I'm 5'7, 160 lbs. and can comfortably conceal a full sized 1911 in a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB under a light jacket without any problems. Your mileage will vary.

Personally I do not recommend off-body carry for two reasons. First because it's easy to forget or leave that bag someplace. Second (and more importantly) because any bag is a target for thieves/robbers. A "purse snatcher" could yank that bag away from you before you have a chance to react. A robber wants you to hand it over.

Here's an example of an off-duty cop who was robbed. He put what was in his hands down and then went for his OWB(?) when the crook was distracted. https://youtu.be/cqv2_BZcipI?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

Here's an example of a Venezuelan off-duty cop who was robbed. If he was carrying off-body then he would have kissed his pistol good-bye. https://youtu.be/Riqv-a5NeWM?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

And here's some examples of how easy it is for crooks to grab your bag when you put it down. Granted it's on a beach in Rio, but you get the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OkmaRWJ9i4
Of course the question can be primary vs back up.
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Old 09-09-2016, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Not so much. I carry a S&W 1006 IWB at 4:00 all the time with no issues (thanks Crossbreed Quikclip). Granted it's not a 1911 but it was based on one.

Now back to OP. I have been thinking about a nice briefcase. Not so much for off body carry but as you suggested, extra mags first aid etc, locked and cabled in the back of the SUV so I don't need to worry about it on school property.
That is impressive. I just bought a P238 because I can't pocket carry my Shield. I carried a full frame 1911 exactly twice. I carry my Glock 23 only rarely.

I've considered a backpack with a holster pocket with velcro or molle, but I don't carry a backpack enough to make it worthwhile. My only off body carry right now is a Maxpedition pouch that fits my Shield in the Alien Gear holster and mag. Just to carry it to and from my car.

Kind of looking for a concealed carry option for backpacking. Obviously a large pack precludes the use of an IWB holster. My pack does not have any pockets that are large enough and also accessible.
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Old 09-09-2016, 7:28 PM
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I carry a MAC12 in my briefcase.
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Old 09-10-2016, 6:12 AM
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I almost never carry off body. I think it's a bad idea but understand sometimes people must. The few times I have I use a Dayplanner holster that will hold my full sized 1911.
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Old 09-10-2016, 7:33 AM
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On body is almost always your best choice, but it's important to remember in a day and age of active shooters that carrying on body is does not exclude off body carry. I like many of my clients who have specific job classifications frequently carry both on body and off body. Off body solutions can also be used to carry additional ammo.

Example I am very comfortable out to 25 yards in USPSA and IDPA style shooting with my Shield, but at 15-50 yards (warehouse scenario, I would much rather have my M&P .40) [Yes I would really rather have my rifle with RMR but ...........] My briefcase carries my .40 S&W and 4 mags really well along with my sticky holster is I need to move the gun on body, without impacting my computer and file carry.

As I sometime tease think outside the waist band (not on your belt but off body).
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Old 09-10-2016, 9:21 PM
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Those were good videos thanks Gun Kraft. I can see the benefit of on-body, but if you are traveling in a car, would CC in the center console work?
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Old 09-11-2016, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
How many of you have an off body system. Jacket, backpack, sling bag, fanny pack, folio, purse, car holster, bed holster?
Because my work does not allow me to carry while working, I started carrying off-body using a 5.11 Select Carry Sling Pack.

Since the zippers can lock together, I carry it to and from work with the zippers unlocked and lock the zippers when I'm at work & the pack is in my office.

I also use it to carry bottle water, first aid kit, snacks, and my Amazon Fire tablet.

When I'm in AZ, NV, and TN; I use my 5.11 Sling Pack to legally conceal carry my AK pistol with extra 30 round magazines.
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Old 09-11-2016, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by VampiressRN View Post
Those were good videos thanks Gun Kraft. I can see the benefit of on-body, but if you are traveling in a car, would CC in the center console work?
Carrying on body, my recommendation is the 3 O'clock position is the best choice.

If you are attacked in a vehicle the attack will most often from from the rear, and may be two people on one each side, Unless you practice a lot, your not going to find the gun coming to hand in an attack. Simply speaking as you recognize the situation, get past the denial, deal with the adrenlin surge, and try to find the weapon your too far behind the power curve. If you have trained with your weapon on you, the access is more reactive.

If you are pulled from the car and you haven't accessed your weapon you still have it. If it was in the car say the center console, you have lost your weapon.

Assuming your right handed, the 3 O'clock position is preferable for a couple of reasons. Well center line (often called appendix) can work, your more likely to get into a car accident than be attacked, in that case the gun carried in the center line position can add significant organ and soft tissue damage as it is pushed into the body during the high g forces of an impact. 4:30 and farther back are very had to access and the sudden movement can be prevented by the seat-belt locking up. We have all tried to reach and grab something only to have the belt lock.

Off body in a car also requires significantly more care when being stopped, or when others are in the vehicle.
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Old 09-12-2016, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Because my work does not allow me to carry while working, I started carrying off-body using a 5.11 Select Carry Sling Pack.
Why would anyone at your job know you're carrying? It is a concealment license right?

For me, I'll take the risk of violating company policy rather than not being able to defend myself thanks!
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Old 09-12-2016, 9:52 AM
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Is it illegal for a grown man to tote around a child like helium balloon on a string that can carry a few pounds above his head?
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:01 AM
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I always have a trauma kit and 3rd/4th mag in my backpack, which is never more than a reach away from me. Carry weapon goes into the same pocket in the back pack in certain situations.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Because my work does not allow me to carry while working, I started carrying off-body using a 5.11 Select Carry Sling Pack.

Since the zippers can lock together, I carry it to and from work with the zippers unlocked and lock the zippers when I'm at work & the pack is in my office.

I also use it to carry bottle water, first aid kit, snacks, and my Amazon Fire tablet.

When I'm in AZ, NV, and TN; I use my 5.11 Sling Pack to legally conceal carry my AK pistol with extra 30 round magazines.
You have a workplace policy that doesn't allow carry but allows guns in the workplace on their property?
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Old 09-12-2016, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampiressRN View Post
Those were good videos thanks Gun Kraft. I can see the benefit of on-body, but if you are traveling in a car, would CC in the center console work?
Off-body is off-body. Besides what grantar2 mentioned, another thing to consider in a vehicle is what happens if you get into an accident. I hope the trigger guard is securely covered and the pistol is secured by active retention. You don't want a loaded pistol flying around inside that center console--especially if there's other stuff in there that could activate the trigger.
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Old 09-12-2016, 8:23 PM
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I know three officers who were victims of attempted car jackings while working surveillance. All three had guns on their hips and no one was hurt. The suspects wanted the car AND the contents. They all just wanted the officers to just get out. In other words if there was a bag (there were brief cases) and lap tops the suspects wanted those too. When I worked surveillance in a vehicle I wore a shoulder rig. I'm retired now, but I still do not carry off body. You'd be surprised how many folks get their purses, backpacks, and etc stolen.
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Old 09-17-2016, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
It all depends on your body type and choice of dress. I'm 5'7, 160 lbs. and can comfortably conceal a full sized 1911 in a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB under a light jacket without any problems. Your mileage will vary.

Personally I do not recommend off-body carry for two reasons. First because it's easy to forget or leave that bag someplace. Second (and more importantly) because any bag is a target for thieves/robbers. A "purse snatcher" could yank that bag away from you before you have a chance to react. A robber wants you to hand it over.

Here's an example of an off-duty cop who was robbed. He put what was in his hands down and then went for his OWB(?) when the crook was distracted. https://youtu.be/cqv2_BZcipI?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

Here's an example of a Venezuelan off-duty cop who was robbed. If he was carrying off-body then he would have kissed his pistol good-bye. https://youtu.be/Riqv-a5NeWM?list=PLDA3BBE65A2970439

And here's some examples of how easy it is for crooks to grab your bag when you put it down. Granted it's on a beach in Rio, but you get the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OkmaRWJ9i4

+1

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Originally Posted by oddjob View Post
I know three officers who were victims of attempted car jackings while working surveillance. All three had guns on their hips and no one was hurt. The suspects wanted the car AND the contents. They all just wanted the officers to just get out. In other words if there was a bag (there were brief cases) and lap tops the suspects wanted those too. When I worked surveillance in a vehicle I wore a shoulder rig. I'm retired now, but I still do not carry off body. You'd be surprised how many folks get their purses, backpacks, and etc stolen.
+1.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:40 AM
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Old 11-23-2016, 8:05 AM
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FIFY...
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Why would anyone at your job know you're carrying? It is a concealment license right?

For me, I'll take the risk of violating company policy rather than not being able to defend myself thanks!
Because of the application process, SBSD sent an employment verification letter to my employer.
So, they know I have applied for a CA LTC permit.
My boss also advised me, after he received the letter and signed off on it, that I am not suppose to carry while working.

In addition, there is a "not to be used for employment purposes" restriction printed on my CA LTC permit. [PC 26200(b)]
Which means if I carry for "employment purposes", then the permit is no longer valid.

AFAIK, every SBSD issued CA LTC permit has this restriction.


Penal Code 26200
(a) A license issued pursuant to this article may include any reasonable restrictions or conditions that the issuing authority deems warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under which the licensee may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (a) shall be indicated on any license issued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
You have a workplace policy that doesn't allow carry but allows guns in the workplace on their property?
Work policy only allows authorized employees to carry a firearm while on duty.

I am not an authorized employee because the Executive Director has deemed that my position does not need to be armed in order to carry out my work duties.
(used to be armed, not anymore. new director, new rules)

So, I can carry a firearm to my work place and have it secured, but I can not carry while working.
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Old 12-03-2016, 1:36 PM
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Not so much. I carry a S&W 1006 IWB at 4:00 all the time with no issues (thanks Crossbreed Quikclip). Granted it's not a 1911 but it was based on one.

Now back to OP. I have been thinking about a nice briefcase. Not so much for off body carry but as you suggested, extra mags first aid etc, locked and cabled in the back of the SUV so I don't need to worry about it on school property.
DA/SA makes 1006 a better carry option. 10mm buffalo bore or underwood ammo make it one shot one kill.
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Old 12-03-2016, 2:03 PM
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DA/SA makes 1006 a better carry option. 10mm buffalo bore or underwood ammo make it one shot one kill.
Yeah I love the 1006. If I don't carry that I'll carry a M&P40C. I actually carry it at about 3:15. I use a Crossbreed QuikClip IWB with a 15% FBI cant. The cant puts the grip at a slight angle, just behind the point of the hip.

With a good carry belt it really carries about the same as the Smith Compact.

Since it as basically the same spot I train from draw is quick and natural.

Only issue is in a car because of the seatbelt. Not really an issue in my Escalade because the seats are big.

Only other downside is the slide is longer then the leather are rests on my *** so going commando is out. LOL
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Old 12-03-2016, 3:21 PM
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I just added my SA 1911-A1 Loaded and my G17 to my LTC renewal last week. Mostly for off body carry, although I just acquired an Alien Gear CT3 for each. I do go backpacking quite a bit where it's not practical to carry at my waist, the waist strap from the backpack would preclude me ever being able to draw. Not that carrying in the backpack is much better, I have not yet figured that one out, how to CCW effectively while backpacking. I also carry a backpack and or laptop bag for work quite often, I may carry in those here and there as a backup pistol. But it does make me nervous, carrying off body. I have to watch my backpack or laptop case like a hawk or lock them up, which sort of defeats the purpose of off body carry. I agree, I will always carry on my body unless I just cannot because of clothing or if I am bending, lifting and carrying a lot of gear or a camera a lot where my CCW on body is just in the way. Also handy for transport to have the gun at hand or a backup nearby.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2016, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Because of the application process, SBSD sent an employment verification letter to my employer.
So, they know I have applied for a CA LTC permit.
My boss also advised me, after he received the letter and signed off on it, that I am not suppose to carry while working.
That's sketchy. Doesn't seem like it should be any of their business unless you wanted/needed to carry at work. As unpopular as guns are around here, having a letter sent to an employer is not something I'd want. My IA only needed a sign off if I were carrying at work. I wasn't going to be, so I just told them I already knew there was a policy against it. Just said "shall not carry for work". Which is odd, because it could be interpreted that I could carry at work, but not forwork.

My immediate supervisor is cool and knows I have a permit. I can't imagine HR or others in the chain would be amused, even if I wasn't going to ever carry at work. It's not something I'd want anyone besides a few like minded co workers to know about. I can see it being totally blown out of proportion. Policies being revised, meetings, signs posted, who knows.

I think if you are able to get a CCW and have a company letterhead stating that you may carry at work, it won't be restricted. But policies for CCW vary so much between counties it's almost impossible to know. It even varies from permit to permit sometimes. I was told by someone at my IA that "they keep the rules vague for a reason". We all know that, but it was just a confirmation to hear it outright.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2016, 6:18 AM
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Originally Posted by floogy View Post
That's sketchy. Doesn't seem like it should be any of their business unless you wanted/needed to carry at work. As unpopular as guns are around here, having a letter sent to an employer is not something I'd want. My IA only needed a sign off if I were carrying at work. I wasn't going to be, so I just told them I already knew there was a policy against it. Just said "shall not carry for work". Which is odd, because it could be interpreted that I could carry at work, but not forwork.
SBSD has always sent an "employment verification" letter to an applicant's employer as part of the applicant's background check.
It helps with them determine if the applicant is a person of "good moral character" as required by CA law. [PC 26150(a)(1)])

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Last edited by Quiet; 12-04-2016 at 6:21 AM..
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2016, 7:11 AM
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SBSD has always sent an "employment verification" letter to an applicant's employer as part of the applicant's background check.
It helps with them determine if the applicant is a person of "good moral character" as required by CA law. [PC 26150(a)(1)])
That's ridiculous. What a blatant disregard for privacy. I could see an anti boss using it to retaliate against an employee they didn't care for. At least it seems yours was professional about it.

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  #35  
Old 09-01-2018, 10:05 AM
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Almost created another thread, then found this one. I almost never carry off body but every once in a while I find myself unable to wear my edc holster.

Came across a youtube vid from LLOD and mirrored his setup with an Oakley sling pack. Took a bit of trial/error getting a spare IWB holster to work, but now nice and secure.






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Last edited by Jason25; 09-01-2018 at 10:09 AM..
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason25 View Post
Almost created another thread, then found this one. I almost never carry off body but every once in a while I find myself unable to wear my edc holster.

Came across a youtube vid from LLOD and mirrored his setup with an Oakley sling pack. Took a bit of trial/error getting a spare IWB holster to work, but now nice and secure.


Looks good. Can you link the video / specifics of what you used to accomplish your setup ?
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:18 AM
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Looks good. Can you link the video / specifics of what you used to accomplish your setup ?
https://youtu.be/F6HyeSU9vtY

I used a spare IWB holster (trex raptor) and some velcro to secure the holster. Spare mag carrier fit on the supplied MOLLE attachment strip. I'm diggin it for what it is, gives me an option when not able to carry on body. I think I'm going to add my G17 to my permit and make it my go to off body pistol.

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Last edited by Jason25; 09-01-2018 at 11:30 AM..
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2018, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
Concealing a full frame 1911 is like driving a 1962 Cadillac through the streets of Rome and then trying to find a parking space.
Not at all, help clients do it all the time. Very common for people who carry a P238, LCP or other small compact on body to carry a larger heavier caliber off body.
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2018, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WyGoSlw View Post
I'm not all saying it's impossible, I'm just saying a full size frame wouldn't be my first choice to try and conceal. I'm not exactly a model of fitness so it would be even harder for me.

To answer the OP, I don't think I would ever consider an off-body carry. I'd have to find a way to keep it on me at all times.
There are a number of groups that carry primary and back up weapons off body. We carry special purses for LEO's. If your wearing a dress a cross body purse with a vertical presentation can be very effective undercover, or off duty. For financial planners a concealed briefcase might be more accessible, something you could have your hand on when gripping your IWB would escalate a situation (actually had this case happen-precious metal trading). Lot of different ways and reasons. Not right for most, but a consideration.
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  #40  
Old 09-01-2018, 6:34 PM
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Looks good. Can you link the video / specifics of what you used to accomplish your setup ?
It's actually easy to do. If you add a holster partner that holster in the backpack can easily be transitioned to the IWB position. There are purse conversion panels that allow you to do that to almost any bag.
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