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  #1  
Old 04-20-2019, 7:58 PM
scottythinkfast scottythinkfast is offline
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Default Lead Free Ammo Not Required in Sidearm?

I want to carry lead ammo in my sidearm while hunting for personal protection, it's a 3" 9mm. I read a lot of older posts on Calguns that says you can't have any lead ammo while hunting due to the lead ban, but today I saw on wildlife.ca.gov "The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife. With the exception of ammunition for concealable firearms possessed for personal protection, hunters may not possess lead ammunition along with a firearm capable of firing that ammunition."

Are there any gotcha's here that maybe I'm missing? I could see how if you are hunting squirrels with .22 and carry a .22 sidearm that could be a problem, but are there any issues anyone can think of with carrying a subcompact 9mm with lead ammo in addition to a long gun of a different caliber [shotgun, rifle]?

Here is the site link:
https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/...nal-protection
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  #2  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:03 PM
ErikC12 ErikC12 is offline
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Sounds like you're good to go.
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:51 PM
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The issue is DFG seems to ticket first and then let the judge sort it out. This requires you to take a day off work and possibly more to travel to defend yourself in court with an unknown chance of convincing the judge. Do yourself a favor and spend 10$ more bucks and carry lead free ammo in your sidearm so you don’t have to deal with this hassle. Odds are one mag of lead free SD ammo will last you a lifetime. Cheap insurance to avoid the hassle.
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Old 04-20-2019, 9:24 PM
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Some people go ape SH.T if your endangering baby condors with lead. They are more sacred then the spotted white owls and whales combined. Remember your hunting in HELL (aka CA). Only children in CA can be exposed to lead safely with proper notifications and signs.
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottythinkfast View Post
I want to carry lead ammo in my sidearm while hunting for personal protection, it's a 3" 9mm. I read a lot of older posts on Calguns that says you can't have any lead ammo while hunting due to the lead ban, but today I saw on wildlife.ca.gov "The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife. With the exception of ammunition for concealable firearms possessed for personal protection, hunters may not possess lead ammunition along with a firearm capable of firing that ammunition."

Are there any gotcha's here that maybe I'm missing? I could see how if you are hunting squirrels with .22 and carry a .22 sidearm that could be a problem, but are there any issues anyone can think of with carrying a subcompact 9mm with lead ammo in addition to a long gun of a different caliber [shotgun, rifle]?

Here is the site link:
https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/...nal-protection
Fish & Game Code 3004.5
(a)(1) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as determined by the commission, shall be required when taking big game, as defined in the department’s mammal hunting regulations (14 Cal. Code Regs. 350), with rifle or pistol, and when taking coyote, within the California condor range.

California Code of Regulatons Title 14 Division 1 Subdivision 2 Chapter 1 Section 250.1
(a) Purpose. This regulation phases in the requirements of Fish and Game Code Section 3004.5, which prohibits the use of any lead projectiles or ammunition containing lead projectiles when taking any wildlife with a firearm on or after July 1, 2019.
(b) Definitions.
(1) A projectile is any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot, shot, pellet or other device that is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.
(2) Nonlead ammunition is any centerfire, shotgun, muzzleloading, or rimfire ammunition containing projectiles certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).
(3) Shotgun ammunition containing pellets composed of materials approved as nontoxic by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, as identified in Section 507.1 of these regulations, is considered certified.
(4) A nonlead projectile shall contain no more than one percent lead by weight, as certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).
(c) General Provisions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful to possess any projectile containing lead in excess of the amount allowed in subsection (b)(4) and a firearm capable of firing the projectile while taking or attempting to take wildlife.
(2) The possession of a projectile containing lead in excess of the amount allowed in subsection (b)(4) without possessing a firearm capable of firing the projectile is not a violation of this section.
(3) Nothing in this section is intended to prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided that the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife.
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Old 04-27-2019, 3:59 PM
scottythinkfast scottythinkfast is offline
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Thank you everyone for the replies, I think this settles it. Looks like I’m good to go as long as I print out a copy of the statue and carry it with me
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Old 04-28-2019, 9:25 AM
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As long as your sidearm is intended and used for personal protection from humans you are GTG. I have used a sidearm against pissed off game (44 mag), which requires non-lead ammo. Personally, I would buy one small box of +p copper alloy ammo or Buffalo Bore copper +p+ 147 9mm to cover a wide variety of threats and avoid any potential game warden drama.
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2019, 8:58 AM
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Correct me if i'm wrong but the regs all seem to specifically state "concealed firearm for personal protection". Does that mean those hunters who open carry on national forest lands for personal protection are not exempt?
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omgwtfbbq View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but the regs all seem to specifically state "concealed firearm for personal protection". Does that mean those hunters who open carry on national forest lands for personal protection are not exempt?
It's concealable firearm, not concealed firearm.

The CA DOJ regulations applies to concealable firearms [PC 16530(a)] being carried for personal protection. [14 CCR 250.1(c)(3)]

Which means it applies to "handguns", that are being opened carried or concealed carried, for personal protection.



Penal Code 16530
(a) As used in this part, the terms “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” and “revolver” apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” or “revolver” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

Penal Code 16640
(a) As used in this part, “handgun” means any pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “handgun” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

Penal Code 17010
Use of the term “pistol” is governed by Section 16530.

Penal Code 17080
Use of the term “revolver” is governed by Section 16530.

Fish & Game Code 3004.5
(a)(1) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as determined by the commission, shall be required when taking big game, as defined in the department’s mammal hunting regulations (14 Cal. Code Regs. 350), with rifle or pistol, and when taking coyote, within the California condor range.

California Code of Regulatons Title 14 Division 1 Subdivision 2 Chapter 1 Section 250.1
(a) Purpose. This regulation phases in the requirements of Fish and Game Code Section 3004.5, which prohibits the use of any lead projectiles or ammunition containing lead projectiles when taking any wildlife with a firearm on or after July 1, 2019.
(b) Definitions.
(1) A projectile is any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot, shot, pellet or other device that is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.
(2) Nonlead ammunition is any centerfire, shotgun, muzzleloading, or rimfire ammunition containing projectiles certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).
(3) Shotgun ammunition containing pellets composed of materials approved as nontoxic by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, as identified in Section 507.1 of these regulations, is considered certified.
(4) A nonlead projectile shall contain no more than one percent lead by weight, as certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).
(c) General Provisions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful to possess any projectile containing lead in excess of the amount allowed in subsection (b)(4) and a firearm capable of firing the projectile while taking or attempting to take wildlife.
(2) The possession of a projectile containing lead in excess of the amount allowed in subsection (b)(4) without possessing a firearm capable of firing the projectile is not a violation of this section.
(3) Nothing in this section is intended to prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided that the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife.
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Last edited by Quiet; 04-29-2019 at 11:35 PM..
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:09 AM
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^^^ Excellent. Thanks for the clarification, Quiet.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:21 AM
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I'd carry copper. it's pretty cheap insurance.
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2019, 7:36 PM
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Simple. If you used your handgun to finish off or take any animal in CA after July 1 it better be with non lead ammo or non lead bullets on the approved list. If you shoot and kill an animal, even for self protection (and report that you did) it better be with non lead ammo. If you use your handgun and lead ammo to protect yourself the various human predators out there in the woods these days, wail away. Just don't shoot ANY animal and report that you did with lead ammo.
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Old 05-15-2019, 8:52 AM
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This is ridiculous.
So, after July 1, 2019, I will need to use non lead .22LR ammo to shoot ground squirrels?
I've got several thousand rounds of 22 ammo that now can only be used for target shooting.
Gr-r-rr-r
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:48 PM
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It seems we can no longer use snake shot in handguns too.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOdessa View Post
It seems we can no longer use snake shot in handguns too.
uh wait..what ? I guess that makes sense since its usually lead but if we build our snake shot loads with steel, that will be allowed right ?

I shoot only steel in my shotgun, I assume it would work in handguns.
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Old 05-20-2019, 1:54 AM
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The warden will most likely give you a citation, then you can go and explain this to a judge.

Or buy a box lead free ammo
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Old 05-20-2019, 2:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
This is ridiculous.
So, after July 1, 2019, I will need to use non lead .22LR ammo to shoot ground squirrels?
I've got several thousand rounds of 22 ammo that now can only be used for target shooting.
Gr-r-rr-r
Just use .22 lead pellets in an air rifle. Works fine for dispatching ground squirrels in my experience. Save the 22LR for plinking.
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Old 05-27-2019, 7:56 PM
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If someone hunts with lead-free ammo, but then goes target shooting with *different* firearms that use conventional ammo while on the same trip, will he find himself in legal hot water if his vehicle is searched while traveling to/from the hunting grounds?

How would a guy explain to the law officer that those *other* firearms in his vehicle were for target practice only and were used for that purpose only, while on his way out of the hunting grounds?
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Old 05-27-2019, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylarz View Post
If someone hunts with lead-free ammo, but then goes target shooting with *different* firearms that use conventional ammo while on the same trip, will he find himself in legal hot water if his vehicle is searched while traveling to/from the hunting grounds?
Yes, they can be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylarz View Post
How would a guy explain to the law officer that those *other* firearms in his vehicle were for target practice only and were used for that purpose only, while on his way out of the hunting grounds?
The person and his lawyer would explain it in Court, when they challenge the charges.
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