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  #81  
Old 07-25-2017, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batman3n1 View Post
I thought I was completely familiar with the way the interstate, intra-familiar transfer worked, but when I read 27875(a)(3), it threw me for loop. I never noticed it before. Thanks for the reply.
California law only covers California law.
Federal law covers Federal law.

In this case, Federal law requires an FFL to be involved in the transfer.

If you call the CA DOJ, they will often tell you that am FFL is not needed, as their drones are ignorant of Federal law.

But ignorance is nothing new.
The DOJ is the agency that misread the Federal rule that a firearm serial number on a polymer receiver be engraved on a stainless plate and contain a total of 3.7oz of metallic content when assembled and wrote their own rule that requires that the serial number be engraved on a 3.7oz stainless plate... physically impossible on a traditional handgun frame and quite difficult on even an AR frame.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #82  
Old 09-24-2017, 8:09 AM
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Just a quick clarification, if my parents intend to gift me a handgun, do they need to send it into California through an FFL or can they hand carry it to California and we go to a FFL here together?

My understanding it could be done both ways but I was recently told that it has to be done by sending it via an FFL and cannot be done in person together.
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  #83  
Old 09-24-2017, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Scholar View Post
Just a quick clarification, if my parents intend to gift me a handgun, do they need to send it into California through an FFL or can they hand carry it to California and we go to a FFL here together?

My understanding it could be done both ways but I was recently told that it has to be done by sending it via an FFL and cannot be done in person together.
That is dependent on the FFL your using. Some are OK with doing it that way, some aren't. I'm not aware of any law that says it has to be shipped. It's probably FFL's acting in an over abundance of caution that won't handle it hand carried in.
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  #84  
Old 09-24-2017, 9:09 AM
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Thanks for the clarification, this was my understanding as well.

I just had a conversation with someone from my LGS and they mentioned that if my parents hand carry the firearm into California and give it to me, I can just fill out the paperwork for the DOJ and pay the $19 registration fee and I'm good to go. I don't believe this is legal to do for out of state intrafamiliar transfers. Just wanted to verify that I need to go through an FFL as I thought the 10 day wait period applies to these type of transfers.
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  #85  
Old 09-24-2017, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Scholar View Post
....I just had a conversation with someone from my LGS and they mentioned that if my parents hand carry the firearm into California and give it to me, I can just fill out the paperwork for the DOJ and pay the $19 registration fee and I'm good to go. I don't believe this is legal to do for out of state intrafamiliar transfers.....
You’re correct. That’s not legal. It’s a violation of federal law (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5)) which would make you and your parents eligible for up to 5 years in federal prison and a lifetime loss of gun rights.
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  #86  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
You’re correct. That’s not legal. It’s a violation of federal law (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5)) which would make you and your parents eligible for up to 5 years in federal prison and a lifetime loss of gun rights.
As fiddletown noted, you are correct. The LGS is ignorant of applicable federal law and apparently is merely looking at CA law.

You should suggest that your LGS look it up so that they not give out bad information. fiddletown has provided the applicable sections, should they need guidance in locating the applicable law. I would not be too critical of your LGS as it appears that they were merely trying to save you some time and money without knowing the jeopardy that would create.
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  #87  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
As fiddletown noted, you are correct. The LGS is ignorant of applicable federal law and apparently is merely looking at CA law.

You should suggest that your LGS look it up so that they not give out bad information. fiddletown has provided the applicable sections, should they need guidance in locating the applicable law. I would not be too critical of your LGS as it appears that they were merely trying to save you some time and money without knowing the jeopardy that would create.
Sadly, many people get that same answer when they call the DOJ.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #88  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:55 AM
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All Good information / Thanks Librarian


Quick question ::
If you have one pistol bought and doing the 10 day wait
Them
Another deal comes along ,Does the 'one in 30 ' rule apply the day you did the paper-work
or the day you receive the gun ??
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  #89  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Eat Dirt View Post
All Good information / Thanks Librarian


Quick question ::
If you have one pistol bought and doing the 10 day wait
Them
Another deal comes along ,Does the 'one in 30 ' rule apply the day you did the paper-work
or the day you receive the gun ??
Day the DROS was transmitted to Sacramento (IOTW, if the DROS system was down when you made the purchase, then 30 days from when the dealer was able to transmit)
Same for the 10 day wait.... so it's 20-days after your earliest pickup date.
You can theoretically transfer 12 per year if you work the 28/31 day months right.... Sundays and holidays can be a problem though, Make a purchase Jan 2 and you pick up your 12th gun on Dec 28.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 09-24-2017 at 11:01 AM..
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  #90  
Old 04-18-2018, 7:15 AM
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Hello
Apologies if this is covered somewhere else. I looked. Couldn't find an answer to my specific question.

I have a DDM4 that I will not be registering. I want to transfer ownership to my adult son in Oregon before 7/1/18. My question is, can I transport this firearm to an Oregon FFL for paperwork? Or am I required to use a CA FFL for legal transfer?

thx
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  #91  
Old 04-18-2018, 7:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bryyce62 View Post
Hello
Apologies if this is covered somewhere else. I looked. Couldn't find an answer to my specific question.

I have a DDM4 that I will not be registering. I want to transfer ownership to my adult son in Oregon before 7/1/18. My question is, can I transport this firearm to an Oregon FFL for paperwork? Or am I required to use a CA FFL for legal transfer?

thx
You can take it yourself. The hard part is getting the dealer to understand that a 4473 needs to be filled out for the interstate transfer. Do yourself a favor beforehand and either bookmark on your smart phone or print the appropriate parts of 18 USC 922 (a) before you go.
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  #92  
Old 04-18-2018, 9:09 AM
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Thank You much.

gw
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  #93  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:44 PM
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so if I live in Az I can drive the off roster gift gun to CA and meet my child at an FFL and do the legal transfer there in accordance wih all CA law ?
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  #94  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
so if I live in Az I can drive the off roster gift gun to CA and meet my child at an FFL and do the legal transfer there in accordance wih all CA law ?
Yes.

Call ahead to the CA FFL to be sure they understand the FFL is required for interstate transfer - if they say 'file the oplaw form', they do NOT understand - and to be sure their business practice will allow a walk-in.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #95  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:48 PM
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thanks for the quick answer !!!!
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  #96  
Old 12-07-2018, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
so if I live in Az I can drive the off roster gift gun to CA and meet my child at an FFL and do the legal transfer there in accordance wih all CA law ?
It is still treated as a dealer transfer, not a PPT, so the $35 max transfer fee does not apply. The cost will be the same whether you hand-carry or ship it in other than the shipping charge.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #97  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
IF the transfer is a handgun, Federal law requires an FFL in the state of the receiver.
It does NOT matter if that state's state law does not require an FFL for a private transfer, because we're trying to obey Federal law.
IF the receiving family member is a CA resident, the transfer of any gun at all requires the CA FFL.
So the Feds exempt long guns from FFL requirement but CA does not?
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  #98  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by broadside View Post
So the Feds exempt long guns from FFL requirement but CA does not?
Pretty sure feds don't exempt interstate long gun transfers from FFL. Not sure where you're getting that from.
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  #99  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Pretty sure feds don't exempt interstate long gun transfers from FFL. Not sure where you're getting that from.
Context of question is interstate intra-familial

The bit I quoted had a statement specific to handguns for Federal requirements, then separate line indicating CA requires FFL no matter the type. It infers that Federal interstate intra-familial does not require FFL.

Hence my question.
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  #100  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
So the Feds exempt long guns from FFL requirement but CA does not?
No, Federal law still requires the FFL for long guns, but the Feds will accept an FFL anywhere: a TX resident and an OK resident could make the transfer at an AR FFL.

CA law won't allow that for CA residents; following the laws of the respective states of residence is required.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


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  #101  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:51 PM
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Hello all, I just joined the site and I am trying to figure all of this out.

I have a question, my wife goes to another state to visit family members. While there she decides to buy an off roster gun as a gift for me and has it shipped to CA FFL.

Is this allowed? I am sure there is something in CA that would not allow something like this from happening.
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  #102  
Old 03-12-2019, 1:28 PM
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You/wife cannot buy a firearm in another state while on vacation. That’s a federal restriction.

Last edited by shaocaholica; 03-12-2019 at 1:35 PM..
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  #103  
Old 03-12-2019, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
You/wife cannot buy a firearm in another state while on vacation. That’s a federal restriction.
Where is that restriction listed? Everything I have looked at says that you can buy a gun in another state as long as it is sent to a CA FFL. I dont see anything about vacation or otherwise.


As of January 1, 2015, a law in California supplants the federal law. It, too, prohibits California residents from buying guns out of state and simply driving home with them (or shipping them home). Now, the seller must ship to a licensed California dealer, who will treat the event like any in-state transaction, involving the waiting period, background check, and safety certificate. (Cal. Penal Code §§ 26840, 27540, 27545, and 27585.)

Under federal law, dealers who are selling to out-of-state residents must ship the gun to a licensed California dealer to complete the transaction. (18 U.S.C.A. § 922.) The recipient dealer must follow state law, by honoring the ten-day waiting period, completing a purchaser background check, and requiring that the purchaser have a handgun safety certificate. (The law exempts licensed dealers, manufacturers, and others.) But this federal law has often not been enforced, due to lack of resources.
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  #104  
Old 03-12-2019, 1:49 PM
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No slick no Bueno. Felony for sure if she takes possession and brings here.. She must send to ca ffl and anyway she cannot buy off roster.
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  #105  
Old 03-12-2019, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSlinky View Post
Where is that restriction listed? Everything I have looked at says that you can buy a gun in another state as long as it is sent to a CA FFL. I dont see anything about vacation or otherwise.
You have to be a resident of a state to buy a firearm in that state. Now you can pay for a gun and have the out of state FFL send the gun directly to a CA FFL if they do CA sales and you'll be subject to all CA laws as if buying from a CA FFL so off roster pistols will not be able to be transacted in CA. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

Here you go homie:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...-another-state

Quote:
May a licensee sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another State?

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.99(a)]

Last edited by shaocaholica; 03-12-2019 at 1:56 PM..
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  #106  
Old 03-12-2019, 2:05 PM
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I think this is where I am getting hung up on. I apologize if this is a bother

"However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence."

If it is shipped from FFL to FFL then there is no problem per that statement.

So, if my wife buys off roster as a gift and it is now interstate family transfer and thus can be an off roster gun and still sent to an FFL.

She would not be bringing it back with her, the purchase happened legally, letter of gift would be sent with the weapon and it all goes thru an FFL. From what I see it meets all the requirements that have to be met.
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  #107  
Old 03-12-2019, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSlinky View Post
So, if my wife buys off roster as a gift and it is now interstate family transfer and thus can be an off roster gun and still sent to an FFL.

She would not be bringing it back with her, the purchase happened legally, letter of gift would be sent with the weapon and it all goes thru an FFL. From what I see it meets all the requirements that have to be met.
Your wife would not be taking possession of the gun until it is in CA at which point it would have to be on roster for her to take possession. Just paying an FFL out of state does not put the gun into the buyers name. An intrafamilial (off roster) transfer has to originate with possession outside of CA and since you and your wife cannot take possession outside of CA, you cannot use that method to obtain an off roster gun.
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  #108  
Old 03-12-2019, 2:12 PM
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^^^ No she is not a resident of the=at state. As resident of ca cannot buy off roster from out of state even if shipped here.She cannot dros an off roster firearm here and she cannot intrafmilial any off roster firearm firearm she does not legally own here.
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  #109  
Old 03-12-2019, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSlinky View Post
Hello all, I just joined the site and I am trying to figure all of this out.

I have a question, my wife goes to another state to visit family members. While there she decides to buy an off roster gun as a gift for me and has it shipped to CA FFL.

Is this allowed? I am sure there is something in CA that would not allow something like this from happening.
She can buy it.

But, since she is a CA resident, it has to go to her, as the buyer, delivered at a CA FFL.

That will work only if the handgun would be on Roster.

She cannot buy it, never take possession, and have it shipped to you as a gift. Neither could your or her parents do that - have to actually buy and own/take possession, then send. CA DOJ inspectors are enforcing the law that way.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #110  
Old 03-12-2019, 2:32 PM
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So it all comes down then to possession. Since she would not be able to take possession of it as an out of state resident she is not technically able to send it to me as a gift.

Thank you for helping understand everyone.
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  #111  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:30 AM
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My father is in the process of moving back to cal from AZ ( I know, i tried talking them out but no luck). He will be transferring some firearms to me. My question is. Does he need to register them first and then transfer? Hes gifted me before through intrafamilial. But now that hes moving back will the process be different?
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  #112  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:43 AM
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Your father will need proof of CA residency before he can transfer to you. Maybe he can volreg with just a CA address and do it quicker?
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  #113  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:12 PM
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Thanks. They just sold the AZ house and will be staying with me temporarily. Yeah kinda confused. Thye wont be getting a cali license until they purchase a home here. Having him apply twice just dont make sense...thanks
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