Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #441  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:34 AM
ScottsBad ScottsBad is offline
No Prisoners!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,343
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
.............

FWIW I have been to 2 ranges since 7/1/18 and no one with either range asked or cared about what kind of AR one had. Will there now be LEO showing up at ranges for registration compliance checks....we shall see. If that is the case there will certainly be a new tone to the conversation
I'm doubtful that LE will have time or inclination to start gun range sting operations. But it would be foolish to temp fate.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #442  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:37 AM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
This exactly what the DoJ wants, btw. They want SACRs to be perceived as unusual and scary.
Except it won't work. The ones who have maglocks installed, those look exactly the same. Only the real non compliant people have an issue with those specific rifles.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #443  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:48 AM
Drivedabizness's Avatar
Drivedabizness Drivedabizness is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,000
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Like their background check system, DOJ seems to have purposely designed a klugey, dysfunctional system that requires a maximum of human interface in order to burn up as much budget while accomplishing the least work product possible.

That alone ought to be grounds for a taxpayer lawsuit.

And we have it in the record that AFTER a Federal judge told DOJ their system was not up to snuff and to prepare to upgrade it - they sat on their hands for 6 months.

They have no intent of implementing a functional system.

Their intent is to discourage you so much that you either a) sell your guns, somehow or b) stand by and live your life i fear of being arrested & prosecuted - all for daring to purchase a perfectly legal item that they later decided needed to be illegal.
__________________
Proud CGN Contributor
USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot
Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools
Reply With Quote
  #444  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:50 AM
4GLOCK30 4GLOCK30 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 119
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
I'm doubtful that LE will have time or inclination to start gun range sting operations. But it would be foolish to temp fate.
I think if you are one who did nothing with a BBAW....yeah you need to be always looking over your shoulder if using the gun. I don't think there will be mass deployment of LEO to hit ranges to check. I do feel there will be "some" LEO that do though. Just a few of those instances making the evening news will spread fear.
Reply With Quote
  #445  
Old 07-16-2018, 11:53 AM
B.J.F. B.J.F. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 105
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
That makes sense to me, considering since 2006 going into LGS and on the range at least half the inventory was AR's. I say 2.5 million as a minimum, I have been tempted to think of it as 3 easily. You can find the DROS numbers online, add them up, then divide by whatever % seems right.

I keep trying and re-focusing the actual point of all this: the numbers coming out of reg are painting a picture that most people didn't comply out of ignorance. People bickered about using all legal options or just using some while avoiding reg. That makes little difference when 5% registered, another 10-20% went with another non-aw method, and the vast majority, maybe 75% of people, didn't do anything. Maybe 1% of that 75% did it knowingly.

I feel like this is the case. What now?

Well as you stated you can look up DROS numbers, but I have had as many as 20 longguns on a single DROS, Chris had more. Im gonna say 5+ million OLL's because almost no one came in and DROS'ed a single OLL. Thats why I averaged from what I remember while performing the DROS's for customers.

Im only trying to paint a picture for the shear volume of OLL's out there. I think all sides of what everyone is suggesting is the answer. There are those that registered, those that went featureless, those that went fixed mag, those that are thumbing their nose at the state and built full featured weapons with stock button and those that are keeping parts and stripped lowers for the SHTF situation.

I hear the same things that other members have said they heard that the proverbial line in the sand is drawn and its a waiting game for when it's going to kick off.
Reply With Quote
  #446  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:02 PM
Low Light's Avatar
Low Light Low Light is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 833
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Almost the same number of petition signers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfield47 View Post
I'm rooting for the allied team, I think we won last time but I can't remember. I just remember it was a lot of fun.
I know I'm gonna get got, but I'm going to get mine more than I get got though.
-Marshawn Lynch
Reply With Quote
  #447  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:16 PM
B.J.F. B.J.F. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 105
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

An auditing ATF agent at the FFL I worked at stated when asked the question "How can you enforce a ban and confiscation of weapons from citizens?

Marna (ATF Agent) answered, even the government can not go door to door to perform this task. By the time they finished a few houses everyone will be aware and massive loss of life would happen.

Now CA agents can disagree with that statement and think they are bullet-proof supermen, but I think what Marna said is the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #448  
Old 07-16-2018, 1:42 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,766
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Only the real non compliant people have an issue with those specific rifles
You might actually want to think carefully about what you just said, considering the % of SACR owners that actually registered their firearms as AWs.

I'm guessing even fewer will render them featureless - the vast majority of SACR owners will be non-compliant, whether they know it or not, and the ones that know they are non-complaint will not be running any of their rifles in public.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamela Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome

Last edited by curtisfong; 07-16-2018 at 1:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #449  
Old 07-16-2018, 1:48 PM
mshill's Avatar
mshill mshill is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,747
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Except it won't work. The ones who have maglocks installed, those look exactly the same. Only the real non compliant people have an issue with those specific rifles.
This x1000.
I have said it in other threads, there will be no compliance checks because at first glance these all virtually look the same as an illegal AW:

1) Pre-2000 RAW
2) 2001-2016 RAW
3) Rimfire AR
4) Fixed magazine AR with maglock (ARMaglock, BB2.0, etc)
5) Fixed magazine AR (DFM, Compmag, etc)
6) Featureless AR with fingrip, fixed stock and brake. (The only telltale sign is the fingrip)

Enforcement is going to be more painful than ever before.
__________________
Quote:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Reply With Quote
  #450  
Old 07-16-2018, 2:18 PM
Discogodfather's Avatar
Discogodfather Discogodfather is offline
Low-Functioning Genius
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,172
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post

Why do you ridicule others for their OWN choice? Regardless what their reasoning is, why mock them? Many of us INCLUDING MYSELF BTW never mocked you for your choice or reasoning behind it. Only have I responded with calling you out for hidden truths and not presenting ALL THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE AT VARIOUS TIMES WHEN YOU WERE SENDING A MESSAGE CLAIMING THESE ARE ALL THE LEGAL CHOICES AVAILABLE. If you had, I wouldn't have responded. The whole time with me has been a disagreement with you and others, but I never mocked you or them. Only when it's been disingenuous.
I don't mock non-compliance. It's a principled position in my book, but it's extremely dangerous. I mock those that conflate other forms of compliance with non-compliance, as I have explained many times before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
You might actually want to think carefully about what you just said, considering the % of SACR owners that actually registered their firearms as AWs.

I'm guessing even fewer will render them featureless - the vast majority of SACR owners will be non-compliant, whether they know it or not, and the ones that know they are non-complaint will not be running any of their rifles in public.
I agree with that. My perception is that few people complied because they just didn't know anything about it. All of this is anecdotal, but it seems to add up to that.

I had another experience during the reg period: I needed some fin grips for some featureless conversions. I looked around to try and find a few, some from Atlantic, others from Solar, others etc. I saw they were in stock and it got me thinking: wouldn't there be a run on these? Kydex isn't like injection molded plastics, you can't mass produce them and make a profit. Even batch manufacturing is difficult. So I called a few- always asked the same question: are these flying off the shelves? Is there a huge demand? Surely with a Kydex grip fin it would be pretty obvious if they were always "out of stock" because the stock is always low.

None of them said yes, ever. Not once, I ended up calling several times- especially towards the end of the deadline. I didn't call the fixed mag people and ask the same question. Maybe that's a question for some of the vendors here including OP, did you see big sales? Where there any trends during the period?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Reply With Quote
  #451  
Old 07-16-2018, 4:33 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
You might actually want to think carefully about what you just said, considering the % of SACR owners that actually registered their firearms as AWs.

I'm guessing even fewer will render them featureless - the vast majority of SACR owners will be non-compliant, whether they know it or not, and the ones that know they are non-complaint will not be running any of their rifles in public.
Either I don't understand your post or you don't understand my reply to you. I agree that the DOJ would want to accomplish this, but since there are so many ARs being sold and available at this moment under the configuration as I explained, there will be many out there at ranges that look the same. I have already taken mine out and I see others take theirs out. While I can't say for sure they have the same configuration as mine, it is clear some do as how they change out their magazines. If you are saying that I advocate taking out a NON compliant AW, you are mistaken.

EDIT: I will rephrase: AR15s that have maglocks look exactly the same as ones with the original bullet button installed. Many of the 'maglock' versions will be out at ranges. Why? ONE reason is they are being sold that way to people who don't even pay attention to the new ban. So if the DOJ thinks they are removing those SCARY BLACK RIFLES off the street, they are mistaken and won't be able to accomplish that. The only rifles that may be hidden are ones that AREN'T registered, yet have the original bullet button installed when they were purchased BEFORE 2017.
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 07-16-2018 at 5:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 07-16-2018, 4:37 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I don't mock non-compliance. It's a principled position in my book, but it's extremely dangerous. I mock those that conflate other forms of compliance with non-compliance, as I have explained many times before.
So? It's STILL their choice. Why mock them with their choice? If they are choosing a certain configuration and think they are giving the finger to the state, who would care about that? It's not the same as creating threads trying to convince others to do the same thing as if they have the only solution. Who has done that? No one.
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 07-16-2018 at 4:48 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:26 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,735
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
So? It's STILL their choice. Why mock them with their choice? If they are choosing a certain configuration and think they are giving the finger to the state, who would care about that? It's not the same as creating threads trying to convince others to do the same thing as if they have the only solution. Who has done that? No one.
I honestly do not see anyone mocking featureless. The majority of those who have registered also have featureless.

I agree with Disco that the only one's truly making a stand are those who now have unregistered assault weapons by the current definition. Though unfortunately the vast majority of those people likely are where they are because they were unaware of the changing laws .
__________________
WTB: Chronograph
WTB: T Series Hi Power
WTB: Bisley Revolver (Uberti type)
WTB: Pietta 45lc conversion cylinder
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:36 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
I honestly do not see anyone mocking featureless. The majority of those who have registered also have featureless.

I agree with Disco that the only one's truly making a stand are those who now have unregistered assault weapons by the current definition. Though unfortunately the vast majority of those people likely are where they are because they were unaware of the changing laws .
He didn't say that below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
But then there is "Group C: The Morons" people who steal Group B's valor and claim that registration is confiscation and then comply with a grip fin or some other contraption and claim that equates patriotism or somehow sticking it to the State. That is NOT a real stance and I will continue to ridicule these people. Fact is almost everyone from Group A did in fact use some of those same legal methods, but we had no preferred method. We wanted to hedge our bets, and we did the right thing in that sense. Group C is living a fantasy that neither makes sense nor has any value to it. Let Group B have the valor of actually being Patriots and let Group A have done the most prudent thing to stay within the law. Group C is for morons.
I don't recall reading anywhere where there were people here claiming they weren't complying while being patriotic by going featureless/maglocks.

Yet even if they did say that, why would anyone care if they made that choice for themselves?
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 07-16-2018 at 5:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:41 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,735
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
He didn't say that below:



I don't recall reading anywhere where there were people here claiming they weren't complying while being patriotic by going featureless/maglocks.

If no one has made that claim, than he has called no one a moron.
__________________
WTB: Chronograph
WTB: T Series Hi Power
WTB: Bisley Revolver (Uberti type)
WTB: Pietta 45lc conversion cylinder
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:42 PM
Xerxes Xerxes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,550
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
You might actually want to think carefully about what you just said, considering the % of SACR owners that actually registered their firearms as AWs.

I'm guessing even fewer will render them featureless - the vast majority of SACR owners will be non-compliant, whether they know it or not, and the ones that know they are non-complaint will not be running any of their rifles in public.
What in Sam Hill tar nation is a SACR?

It appears that three of you in this thread know what it is.

….but I want to know..
All calgun members demand to know
The whole world commands to know
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:46 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,735
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
What in Sam Hill tar nation is a SACR?

It appears that three of you in this thread know what it is.

….but I want to know..
All calgun members demand to know
The whole world commands to know
Semi-Auto Center Fire Rifle
__________________
WTB: Chronograph
WTB: T Series Hi Power
WTB: Bisley Revolver (Uberti type)
WTB: Pietta 45lc conversion cylinder
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 07-16-2018, 6:00 PM
Discogodfather's Avatar
Discogodfather Discogodfather is offline
Low-Functioning Genius
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,172
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
What in Sam Hill tar nation is a SACR?

It appears that three of you in this thread know what it is.

….but I want to know..
All calgun members demand to know
The whole world commands to know
It's a very expensive rifle from Belgium.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 07-16-2018, 6:22 PM
elSquid's Avatar
elSquid elSquid is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Left coast.
Posts: 9,723
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
What in Sam Hill tar nation is a SACR?
"Some abnormal California-ized rifle"

-- Michael
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 07-16-2018, 7:07 PM
komifornian's Avatar
komifornian komifornian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The PRK
Posts: 247
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Press Check View Post
I think we're assuming the vast majority had limited or zero knowledge of the pending registration, but historically, bad news travels fast, so I'm more inclined to believe that vast majority did know.

Among friends, I am definitely in the minority of those that registered. In fact, maybe the only one. Among those friends, not a single one has taken any steps towards removing the features from their rifles.
Spot on!

This has been my experience as well. Most people knew "something was out there" but didn't care - even if non-compliance could yield a felony.

They're done - full stop. This is why it's scary! "Bring it" is their attitude. This attitude is difficult to process for me. However, they drew their line and they're not budging.

As I mentioned earlier, this can go two ways. LEO's only enforce when there are other crimes involved, or they go full tilt. If they choose the latter, sooner or later there's gonna knock on the wrong door. If that happens, who knows what'll happen. I think it largely depends on how the media spins it.
__________________
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #461  
Old 07-16-2018, 7:48 PM
Press Check Press Check is offline
1911 Aficionado
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Behind Enemy Lines (CA)
Posts: 4,869
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Yeah, but what do we do when we get into cars with our friends and go to the range like that? It's a huge serious gargantuan enormous problem............
These are guys that shoot 200 rounds a year, or guys that have an AR set aside in a closet for home defense, so honestly, I don't know.

I'm a huge proponent of civil disobedience. My hope is that LE will know compliance was low, understand why, and exercise professional discretion in the coming days, months or years, but I know that will largely depend on the circumstances in which they make contact.
Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 07-16-2018, 8:03 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Yeah, but what do we do when we get into cars with our friends and go to the range like that? It's a huge serious gargantuan enormous problem............
That 'group' will dwindle as time goes. More and more with maglocks will continue to grow and won't worry about this.
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:06 PM
God Bless America's Avatar
God Bless America God Bless America is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,561
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
What in Sam Hill tar nation is a SACR?

It appears that three of you in this thread know what it is.

….but I want to know..
All calgun members demand to know
The whole world commands to know
It's the dream gun of dyslexic FN fans everywhere
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:08 PM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 780
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
I'm doubtful that LE will have time or inclination to start gun range sting operations. But it would be foolish to temp fate.
And yet it would also be foolish for all us to simply roll over and play dead for every single one of the thousands of gun regulations that Sacramento blows out of their ***** like unicorn farts.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:14 PM
Discogodfather's Avatar
Discogodfather Discogodfather is offline
Low-Functioning Genius
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,172
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

I've never had problems at a range in 30 years of shooting. Never saw a cop unless they were there just shooting like everyone else.

Those aren't the situations to worry about. For some reason we all seem to picture LEO walking up to us at the range, it's so silly.

Think about all the situations where you do interact with LEO, that's the problem. That could include many many things that are out of your control. The car is the most likely place, followed by the home.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:20 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I've never had problems at a range in 30 years of shooting. Never saw a cop unless they were there just shooting like everyone else.

Those aren't the situations to worry about. For some reason we all seem to picture LEO walking up to us at the range, it's so silly.


Think about all the situations where you do interact with LEO, that's the problem. That could include many many things that are out of your control. The car is the most likely place, followed by the home.
Correct which is why DOJ's so called 'agenda' won't be effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
This exactly what the DoJ wants, btw. They want SACRs to be perceived as unusual and scary.
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 07-17-2018, 6:59 AM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 522
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
If no one has made that claim, than he has called no one a moron.


Oh my, the many things that hasn’t been seen read that are posted everywhere eh?


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 07-17-2018, 7:03 AM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 522
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

The left wins at this gun culture attrition game when people don’t go shoot these things, don’t go show others what it is like to shoot these things, and don’t introduce new shooters to shooting so they also want to own these things. Using them is a large part of the battle, being open enough to post on social media that you’re doing it legally is also. Your sphere of influence needs to know that this is normal.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 07-17-2018, 7:29 AM
Xerxes Xerxes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,550
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
The left wins at this gun culture attrition game when people don’t go shoot these things, don’t go show others what it is like to shoot these things, and don’t introduce new shooters to shooting so they also want to own these things. Using them is a large part of the battle, being open enough to post on social media that you’re doing it legally is also. Your sphere of influence needs to know that this is normal.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Thank god the military has not substituted nerf rifles for M4's to satisfy the Namby Pansi's.

There will be at least 100,000 new NRA members every year thanks to our fine folks in the military.
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 07-17-2018, 8:28 AM
Ford8N's Avatar
Ford8N Ford8N is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern Rhovanion
Posts: 5,955
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Thank god the military has not substituted nerf rifles for M4's to satisfy the Namby Pansi's.

There will be at least 100,000 new NRA members every year thanks to our fine folks in the military.
But how much you want a bet that if it comes to obeying an order to confiscate civilian firearms the military and California LEOs will obey their Masters.

Look up the hurricane Katrina video that the NRA put out. Guess who was obeying orders.
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 07-17-2018, 8:41 AM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: (34.2283° N, 118.5358° W), (33.6700° N, 117.7800° W)
Posts: 4,364
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
The left wins at this gun culture attrition game when people don’t go shoot these things, don’t go show others what it is like to shoot these things, and don’t introduce new shooters to shooting so they also want to own these things. Using them is a large part of the battle, being open enough to post on social media that you’re doing it legally is also. Your sphere of influence needs to know that this is normal.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
I don't know why you or anyone else would be concerned about this when gun sales skyrocketed once again at the end of 2016 and gun stores continue to stock the shelves now with compliance products. It's not going to change at any degree to make an effect. I will be so bold to say it will have the opposite effect. Only a very few who don't modify their unregistered AWs should be concerned if they plan on shooting them.

Remember 2013 when you couldn't buy an AR under $1000.00? More people have these rifles than ever before. Thanks to these advertised bans and attempted bans, gun sales continue to flourish. Obama was one of our best salesmen ever.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/healt...rnd/index.html

Quote:
How a ban increased demand:

As the profile of the AR-15 rose, talk continued of banning "assault weapons," a term used by lawmakers to denote certain types of semi-automatic firearms. President George H.W. Bush, a lifetime NRA member, proposed banning all magazines holding more than 15 rounds.
In 1994, President Bill Clinton pushed the assault weapons ban through Congress with some bipartisan support. Presidents Reagan, Carter and Ford co-authored a letter to the House of Representatives expressing their support.
"This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety," it read. "We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons."
Hyatt, whose store was started by his father in 1959, recalled a surge in sales then, too.
There's something about human nature, he says. "You tell a man he can't have something and suddenly he wants 12."
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 07-17-2018 at 8:45 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 07-17-2018, 9:14 AM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 522
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Thank god the military has not substituted nerf rifles for M4's to satisfy the Namby Pansi's.



There will be at least 100,000 new NRA members every year thanks to our fine folks in the military.


We may. But we should not depend on that. Many who are entering the military today are uneducated about guns and their impact on western culture, safety and security of society, etc. our school system is continually breaking away from teaching these concepts, changing history books, and preaching a utopia that is impractical and impossible for many reasons.

Some of those are leaving the military with a bad taste in their mouths about our influence in the world, guilt about their actions on our behalf, and a great disdain for the political right, the NRA and other pro-gun organizations who they blame for our continued meddling in world politics and warmongering. (Not my perspective, fyi)

My own cousin is one of these. He left the Army after serving two tours in Afghanistan with a severe case of “its all our fault”itis. His anti-gun view is now a hard line for him and he grew up with the same background, religious views, rural town, BB and gun owning family

A couple years of seeing hatred worked out in the world without proper perspective is a horrid thing.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old 07-17-2018, 9:57 AM
Press Check Press Check is offline
1911 Aficionado
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Behind Enemy Lines (CA)
Posts: 4,869
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

That's a shame...
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:21 AM
timdps timdps is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,095
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
. Obama was one of our best salesmen ever.
Greatest gun salesman in the history of the world. Looking at gun sales during his reign, he is the best gun salesman in the history of the world. From third quarter 2007 through October of 2016, there were 165,611,772 NICS checks. That is one hundred and sixty five million! No one in history even comes close to Obama for gun sales. Sure, some of those checks were not sales, but even if only 60% were sales, that's still more guns than anytime or anywhere in the world.

For comparison, the USA built 11,750,000 million rifles during WWII 1939-1945. Obama sold up to fourteen times that amount.

Approximately 100,000,000 AK47 type rifles have been built in the history of the firearm. Obama sold as much as 1.5 times as many firearms.

__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require, that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies." - George Washington, 1790
Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:10 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 780
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Thank god the military has not substituted nerf rifles for M4's to satisfy the Namby Pansi's.

There will be at least 100,000 new NRA members every year thanks to our fine folks in the military.
Agree. While on that subject, anyone here have any stats that show what percentage of our military are Republicans vs Dems?
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:23 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 780
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

IMHO, we're spending too much time talking about the number of GUNS Americans are buying, vs the number of Americans who are buying them.
A stat was published a couple years ago, claims that 3% of gun owners own HALF of all the guns out there. Hard to know how accurate this report is, since I'll bet much of the info comes from voluntary self-reporting.

Thing is, our cause will do so much better by convincing 100 people to buy one gun each, then convincing 10 people to buy 10 guns each.

People vote. Not guns. Having 300 million guns in civilian hands doesn't help much, if that translates into only 10-20 million votes.

Not to mention the public perception of gun owners and our need to achieve normalization of gun ownership. For some reason, the average moderate (forget trying to convince liberals; they are a lost cause) will view a person as owning 1-2 handguns for home protection as probably "normal", yet that same moderate will look at you as a bit "crazy" if you show them you have a safe full of handguns and AR's. Both moderates and liberals view gun collecting as an aberrant behavior.
If we are to increase our ranks, we must absolutely focus on getting as many moderates as possible to "buy that first gun". So they can protect their family. After all, every person on here started their collection with that very first gun.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #477  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:43 AM
Kyle1886's Avatar
Kyle1886 Kyle1886 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: N. San Diego Co.
Posts: 1,739
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
Agree. While on that subject, anyone here have any stats that show what percentage of our military are Republicans vs Dems?
I really don't know the percent but as an observation, since both of our sons are career military. (One ending 30 years and one retired after 20+)

It appears to me the higher up the ladder, the more "liberal" and rank and file more conservative. About the same as most "structured" occupations.

(That's the way it was when I was a firefighter too).

That means the "more liberal" are calling the shots.

Again, just an observation with no clear data.

Respectfully,
Kyle
__________________
Take responsibility for your own actions!

WE are the NRA.

_________+__________
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:01 PM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 522
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
IMHO, we're spending too much time talking about the number of GUNS Americans are buying, vs the number of Americans who are buying them.
A stat was published a couple years ago, claims that 3% of gun owners own HALF of all the guns out there. Hard to know how accurate this report is, since I'll bet much of the info comes from voluntary self-reporting.

Thing is, our cause will do so much better by convincing 100 people to buy one gun each, then convincing 10 people to buy 10 guns each.

.

Exactly right! Thanks for sharing it.



Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:25 PM
Offwidth Offwidth is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivedabizness View Post
DOJ seems to have purposely designed a klugey, dysfunctional system that requires a maximum of human interface in order to burn up as much budget while accomplishing the least work product possible.
Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. Plenty of those half assed outsourced IT project out there.
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:31 PM
Discogodfather's Avatar
Discogodfather Discogodfather is offline
Low-Functioning Genius
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,172
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

Looks like the inital report was too soon and it's more like what Librarian said, reg is up?

Reg up 43% Story

"Californians have applied to register 68,848 additional assault weapons in the last 11 months"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:56 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.