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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-25-2010, 9:02 AM
socal2310 socal2310 is offline
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Default How left wing is the 9th circuit really?

Disclaimer: I lean more libertarian than conservative though most would characterize me as conservative based on how I actually choose to live my life so I have no dog in a traditional left/right fight.

I was just reading the thread Obama, 9th Circuit Appeals and Incorporation thread and in particular this article and the following occurred to me:

The fact that the 9th circuit is the most commonly overruled district court in the country is indisputable, but has anyone made the effort to do a statistical analysis? Of course they are overturned more often - they hear the most cases.

The fact that they have been overturned in fifteen of the last sixteen cases heard by SCOTUS also means little since they only take the most controversial cases, usually involving circuit splits. They lean liberal while SCOTUS leans conservative. What proportion of their decisions are reviewed would be more meaningful than how many times they are overruled.

Off to research now, but I thought the question ought to be asked before an answer provided.

If anyone has a ready answer, don't hesitate to post. I won't be offended.

Ryan
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Old 02-25-2010, 5:34 PM
Wild Squid Wild Squid is offline
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Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
The fact that they have been overturned in fifteen of the last sixteen cases heard by SCOTUS also means little since

I did not know this, but I don't think that means little. That means to me they make some pretty stupid decisions, and should be re-evaluated.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2010, 6:01 PM
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BigDogatPlay BigDogatPlay is offline
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The Ninth Circuit is the largest of all the circuits in terms of territory / jurisdiction. The circuit is indeed known for some pretty left leaning opinions, and in fairness judges tend to be nominated to serve from their home states and, at the lower levels, are going to have been political animals to some degree or another. And a majority of the judges currently sitting were appointed by Democrat presidents.

So you kind of have a court that reflects, to some degree, the political and social realities of the west... particularly in California.

That said Judge O'Scannlain gave us the Nordyke ruling... so they aren't always wrong.

Here is a Judgepedia link to the Ninth Circuit.
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Old 02-26-2010, 6:14 AM
vantec08 vantec08 is offline
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The ninth circuit is a la-la land extension of CA liberalism, led by the space cadet Thelton Henderson. Remember prop. 209 (among others) that the voters approved, then got un-done? That was the ninth. Remember the inmate convicted of murdering prison guards who's conviction was overturned cause he had hemmorroids or hangnails? U.S. ninth circuit.
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Old 02-26-2010, 6:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
So you kind of have a court that reflects, to some degree, the political and social realities of the west... particularly in California.
Bite your tongue. Most of the actual West would be delirious to get out of the same circuit as California. It's been tried, and the circuit *badly* needs to be split, but so far states like Montana are still shackled to California.

7x57
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Old 02-26-2010, 7:22 AM
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Gray Peterson Gray Peterson is offline
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Originally Posted by vantec08 View Post
The ninth circuit is a la-la land extension of CA liberalism, led by the space cadet Thelton Henderson. Remember prop. 209 (among others) that the voters approved, then got un-done? That was the ninth. Remember the inmate convicted of murdering prison guards who's conviction was overturned cause he had hemmorroids or hangnails? U.S. ninth circuit.
Don't know about the last one, but Thelton Henderson is not a 9th Circuit Judge, he is a judge of the US District Court of Northern California. His decision on Proposition 209 was OVERTURNED by the 9th Circuit and Prop 209 was affirmed as valid.

Prop 187 is what you're thinking of, and the state essentially refused to fight against the case.
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Old 02-26-2010, 8:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
Bite your tongue. Most of the actual West would be delirious to get out of the same circuit as California. It's been tried, and the circuit *badly* needs to be split, but so far states like Montana are still shackled to California.

7x57
Well.... I think my statement is still, to some degree valid.

Yes the other states in the circuit are shackled to California in terms of jurisprudence and rulings, however there are judges based all around the circuit and they bring at least some of their state's manners and mores with them. Judge O'Scannlain, the author of Nordyke is based out of Portland, for instance.

California, with the significantly higher population and number of cases would statistically and practically shift the balance however.

Yes.. the circuit does badly need to be split. It's too large, unwieldy to manage and runs the risk of unfairly imposing itself onto segments of society that disagree with it. Newdow comes most immediately to mind. A number of the judges currently on the bench have spoken strongly in favor of a split, and I believe strongly it's an idea whose time is now.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
The fact that the 9th circuit is the most commonly overruled district court in the country is indisputable, but has anyone made the effort to do a statistical analysis? Of course they are overturned more often - they hear the most cases.

<snip>

If anyone has a ready answer, don't hesitate to post. I won't be offended.

Ryan
You are correct. I looked into this a while ago, and sure enough, on average the 9th isn't overturned as a percentage much more or less than any other circuit. Part of the problem in the comparison is with the varying numbers as well. For example, let's say 30 cases from the 9th make it to SCOTUS, and ten of them are affirmed. The first ten. Then, you compare with the 1st Circuit, which only has two cases go up, and the first two of those (i.e. both of them) are also affirmed. On a simple division, you get a 66% reversal rate for the 9th, and a 0% reversal rate for the 1st, even though the first two cases from both circuits were given the same result. But the 1st's sample size is so small as to be of little use in the analysis. It's like rolling a die once, seeing a '6' come up, and stating that there's a 100% historical trend of rolling a '6'. Accurate, yes. Useful statement, no.

Let us know the figures you come up with for the last five years or so. I do seem to recall an outlier in there somewhere.

NTM
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Old 02-26-2010, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic Moran View Post
You are correct. I looked into this a while ago, and sure enough, on average the 9th isn't overturned as a percentage much more or less than any other circuit. Part of the problem in the comparison is with the varying numbers as well. For example, let's say 30 cases from the 9th make it to SCOTUS, and ten of them are affirmed. The first ten. Then, you compare with the 1st Circuit, which only has two cases go up, and the first two of those (i.e. both of them) are also affirmed. On a simple division, you get a 66% reversal rate for the 9th, and a 0% reversal rate for the 1st, even though the first two cases from both circuits were given the same result. But the 1st's sample size is so small as to be of little use in the analysis. It's like rolling a die once, seeing a '6' come up, and stating that there's a 100% historical trend of rolling a '6'. Accurate, yes. Useful statement, no.

Let us know the figures you come up with for the last five years or so. I do seem to recall an outlier in there somewhere.

NTM
Probably the Federal Circuit -- if I recall correctly, they have a 75% or 80% reversal rate. But probably not a fair comparison to the other circuits, since the CAFC generally hears a pretty narrow and specialized set of cases.
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2010, 1:36 PM
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The 9th circuit needs to be broken into at least 3 courts for a total of 15 (?) ciruits nation wide. WAY too liberal!!!!!
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