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  #1  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:30 PM
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Default Legal question for importing owned firearms after 60 days

I moved to California about 3 years ago and did not bring 2 long guns (.338win and LC Smith SxS) with me when I moved (left them with my father-in-law) for the time being. I did transport the guns i thought I'd use regularly and filed my new resident gun importing form with these. My question is, are there any legal means to import these 2 other longs guns with me to CA now that I've lived here for 3 years and haven't been in possession of them and didn't originally have them on that new resident registry. Thanks for your help!
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:45 PM
Sig so sour of ca Sig so sour of ca is offline
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They registered in your name? Long guns shouldn’t be an issue as long as not a RAW, handgun no dice. You’d have to go pick them up.
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:57 PM
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Yes sir they are in my name. I will be traveling for the holidays and would like to bring them home, just want to make 100% sure I had everything squared away before I did that
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sig so sour of ca View Post
They registered in your name? Long guns shouldn’t be an issue as long as not a RAW, handgun no dice. You’d have to go pick them up.
Very bad advice above.

Please refer to Penal Code section 27560. This section requires you to make a report to DOJ within 60 days of importing any firearm. Since 2014, the law makes no distinction between handguns and long guns. Please note that the 60 day clock starts when the firearm enters the state, not when you entered the state.

However, if you acquired the firearm in another state while being a California resident, then the more stringent requirements of Penal Code section 27585 apply.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:33 AM
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Very bad advice above.

Please refer to Penal Code section 27560. This section requires you to make a report to DOJ within 60 days of importing any firearm. Since 2014, the law makes no distinction between handguns and long guns. Please note that the 60 day clock starts when the firearm enters the state, not when you entered the state.

However, if you acquired the firearm in another state while being a California resident, then the more stringent requirements of Penal Code section 27585 apply.
PC 27585 applies to firearms acquired after 1-1-2015 so if he acquired these prior to that then I don't see how this PC would apply. However the better question would be when he "left them" with his father in law would that have constituted a transfer of the firearms from him to his father in law, then if he were to receive them back from him, being a resident of CA and the father in law being a resident of another state then that transfer would be illegal unless it went through an FFL. Therefore the correct way for these firearms to be transferred would be for the father in law to ship them to an FFL here in CA and then have the OP come in and do the DROS and 4473.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
PC 27585 applies to firearms acquired after 1-1-2015 so if he acquired these prior to that then I don't see how this PC would apply. However the better question would be when he "left them" with his father in law would that have constituted a transfer of the firearms from him to his father in law, then if he were to receive them back from him, being a resident of CA and the father in law being a resident of another state then that transfer would be illegal unless it went through an FFL. Therefore the correct way for these firearms to be transferred would be for the father in law to ship them to an FFL here in CA and then have the OP come in and do the DROS and 4473.
Good points. PC 27585 does apply only to firearms acquired after 1-1-2015. Since my comments to the OP were focused on the applicability of PC 27560, I didn't go into detail, but you are quite correct.

If (and we're changing the question a bit here) there was a transfer to the father in law, then you are also correct that a California FFL is needed for the transfer.

But as the OP presented the question, his guidance is found in PC 27560.

I also found it appropriate to address his apparent misunderstanding that the 60 day time clock started with his arrival into the state rather than the arrival of the firearm.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post

I also found it appropriate to address his apparent misunderstanding that the 60 day time clock started with his arrival into the state rather than the arrival of the firearm.

Yes, he misunderstood the 60 "clock"

I would suggest that if he never intended to transfer the firearms to his father in law at they were simply in the safe at the house or something then PC27585 would not apply here and then PC 27560 would be the place he needs to look.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:28 PM
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If they were not only accessible by you they are now your father in laws.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:59 PM
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If they were not only accessible by you they are now your father in laws.
Seems like opinion rather than law. If say the firearm were in the safe at the house and the OP and father in law both had combos then you could say that the firearm was not given to the father in law. I don't think exclusivity is something that would be necessary to justify not transferring a firearm. For example: If an 18 year old son has access to dads gun safe combo does that mean that dad has now transferred all his firearms to the son because he has access to them?

For example. If I were to take a pistol to my mother in laws house in Arizona for me to use while I'm in town and carry around I don't think that would justify 'transferring' that pistol. Now If I were to say give her a firearm under the pretense her having it then that would be a 'transfer' subject to having to go through an FFL as me being a California resident and her an Arizona resident.
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Last edited by acespawnshop; 09-19-2018 at 1:02 PM..
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Old 09-19-2018, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tfree17 View Post
Yes sir they are in my name. I will be traveling for the holidays and would like to bring them home, just want to make 100% sure I had everything squared away before I did that
NO! They are not in your name. Long guns in other states are not registered to anyone.

Plus, you basically left them with your father in law for two years which kinda means they are now his.

You should have your FIL, send them to a CA FFL and pick them up after the DROS process has concluded.
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Old 09-19-2018, 1:13 PM
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Yes sir they are in my name. I will be traveling for the holidays and would like to bring them home, just want to make 100% sure I had everything squared away before I did that
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
NO! They are not in your name. Long guns in other states are not registered to anyone.

Plus, you basically left them with your father in law for two years which kinda means they are now his.

You should have your FIL, send them to a CA FFL and pick them up after the DROS process has concluded.
Gents,

Please be care not to infer that "Registration" establishes "Ownership." They are very different concepts.

I'm not aware of any state registration system that establishes title to the weapons registered. California's AFS system most certainly does not. It's quite different from California's Vehicle Registration system which does communicate a title to the vehicles registered.
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Old 09-19-2018, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Gents,

Please be care not to infer that "Registration" establishes "Ownership." They are very different concepts.

I'm not aware of any state registration system that establishes title to the weapons registered. California's AFS system most certainly does not. It's quite different from California's Vehicle Registration system which does communicate a title to the vehicles registered.
This all makes sense so thanks for the help. I did assume that as I bought them from an FFL in another state prior to moving to CA, that would constitute "being in my name", so that's helpful. It seems as thought Penal Code 27560 would be my bottom line. I stopped at a local FFL and they also stated that under PC 27560 notification to the DOJ and $19 check was what CA required for this to happen legally and correctly.

Last edited by tfree17; 09-19-2018 at 3:38 PM..
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Old 09-19-2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tfree17 View Post
This all makes sense so thanks for the help. I did assume that as I bought them from an FFL in another state prior to moving to CA, that would constitute "being in my name", so that's helpful. It seems as thought Penal Code 27560 would be my bottom line. I stopped at a local FFL and they also stated that under PC 27560 notification to the DOJ and $19 check was what CA required for this to happen legally and correctly.
Did you tell them you didn't have possession for 3 years? Did you tell them that your FIL has possession of them? They either didn't get the whole story or they gave you bad information.


You need to have your FIL ship them to a CA FFL, DROS them and wait 10 days to pick them up.
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Old 09-19-2018, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tfree17 View Post
This all makes sense so thanks for the help. I did assume that as I bought them from an FFL in another state prior to moving to CA, that would constitute "being in my name", so that's helpful. It seems as thought Penal Code 27560 would be my bottom line. I stopped at a local FFL and they also stated that under PC 27560 notification to the DOJ and $19 check was what CA required for this to happen legally and correctly.
That's the way that PC 27560 works. It's a pretty painless procedure. Just male sure that as acespawnshop had cautioned that there was not a "de facto" transfer of the weapons to your father-in-law when you left your previous home.
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Old 09-19-2018, 3:53 PM
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Did you tell them you didn't have possession for 3 years? Did you tell them that your FIL has possession of them?


You need to have your FIL ship them to a CA FFL DROS them and wait 10 days to pick them up.
I did state when I moved, became a resident, when the firearms were purchased by myself and when I left them with my FIL. I also cannot find a penal code or law to support that I do not own them any more. I've looked through ATF and CA DOJ documents. If there is a legal document to support the thought that I do not "own" these firearms any more. I would love to have it. I do appreciate your help on this.
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Old 09-19-2018, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tfree17 View Post
I did state when I moved, became a resident, when the firearms were purchased by myself and when I left them with my FIL. I also cannot find a penal code or law to support that I do not own them any more. I've looked through ATF and CA DOJ documents. If there is a legal document to support the thought that I do not "own" these firearms any more. I would love to have it. I do appreciate your help on this.
Forget about "ownership." The question of who "owns" the firearms is not relevant. The laws at issue here concern who possesses the firearms and who is involved in the "transfer" of the firearms.

There is no requirement that a person 'own" a firearm in order to "transfer" it. Nor does the fact that one already owns a firearm, prevent them from receiving it from another.

The law that you're seeking is in the United States Code, Title 18, section 922(a)(5).
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Old 09-19-2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tfree17 View Post
I did state when I moved, became a resident, when the firearms were purchased by myself and when I left them with my FIL. I also cannot find a penal code or law to support that I do not own them any more. I've looked through ATF and CA DOJ documents. If there is a legal document to support the thought that I do not "own" these firearms any more. I would love to have it. I do appreciate your help on this.
Technically, 3 years of possession would constitute a transfer to your FIL. Unless in the event you may have those guns in your safe and locked up without him having access. In free America, possession is 99% of the who owns a gun. Especially after 3 years.
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Old 09-19-2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Forget about "ownership." The question of who "owns" the firearms is not relevant. The laws at issue here concern who possesses the firearms and who is involved in the "transfer" of the firearms.

There is no requirement that a person 'own" a firearm in order to "transfer" it. Nor does the fact that one already owns a firearm, prevent them from receiving it from another.

The law that you're seeking is in the United States Code, Title 18, section 922(a)(5).
Thanks.
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Old 09-19-2018, 7:17 PM
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Thanks for finding that for me. I appreciate your help
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