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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2017, 2:13 AM
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Default Sig Sauer Bravo 4

So I was up in the air about buying yet another Trijicon Acog with Bobro mount. They are great optics but was looking for something different. I have Elcan Specter Drs so I was looking at a fixed optic. So I picked up a magazine and Sig Sauer had a line of optics that looked cool but how are they really. So I flipped a coin and made a jump and picked up a Bravo 4 awhile back.

There were very few online reviews and only a couple videos on Youtube on a Tavor. So needless to say, not much.

So it took about 4 days to ship directly from Sig and when I got it it was in no fancy hardcore case like my Trijicons or a plain old white cardboard box like my Elcans. It was a nice box that you would see with an expensive phone or watch.

My first initial impressions having it out of the box were good. Same construction as the Elcan and Trijicon Acogs. Glass is clear just like my Elcan and weight is a little less than the Elcan. So thats good. I still don't think the Elcan on any rifle is heavy but some smaller men/women think it is. Thats ok.

After having it awhile it seems pretty solid, took some use and I like the illumination of 50,000 hours like an Aimpoint or you can not use a battery and still have a solid optic. Holds zero and pretty much did everything my Acogs have done. It is a little thicker than the Acog but still smaller than an Elcan DR.

Price was my issue. On an optic not proven its hard to swallow.. Most folks, myself included would have just bought another Acog and be done with it. Now after a little time I can say with certainty this will be more suited for Police and Law Enforcement VS the US Military. Some folks don't like the looks and its growing on me. Right now in June almost July the Sig Bravo 4 appears "next generation" with its options, settings, waterproof and lifetime limited warranty that is transferrable if you sell or trade the optic. The Sig Bravo 4 can be had for $900-$1300. Same ballpark as your normal Acog but about $1000 less than a dual Elcan. Again, this is a fixed 4X optic.

Some folks and friends asked me if this is better than a Trijicon Acog. Right now I would say it's even with the Acog and in time and if it starts to prove itself it can surpass the Acog. Is it better than an Elcan Specter DR? I can say the quality and attention to detail is better but overall the Elcan is better for what it is and offers, a dual role optic.

Also it appears that Sig will be releasing the kill flash and front and rear flip up lens covers in amber and clear in the near future.

Anyway enough of my rambling here are some pictures and folks feel free to ask me questions..I will try to answer them as best as I can.
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Last edited by Endless; 09-05-2017 at 11:03 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2017, 9:26 AM
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Great initial feedback!

The price point of that optic and the lack of reviews has definitely kept some people from buying it so really appreciate you posting this.

-Matt S.
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Old 06-22-2017, 9:41 AM
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Having extensive experience with Acogs both in and out of the field, what makes you feel like this optic is equal to one? I'm not familiar at all with Sig's line of glass so you'll have to chime in here..

There are a variety of Acogs that'll provide different lengths of eye relief as well as a variety of illumination options (ambient light, LED, or tritium). You also have the fact that Trijicon offers their Acogs with a variety of reticle styles and in different colors too.

One thing I absolutely love about the Acog is that no matter what, it wouldn't lose zero. Every one I've owned would pass the box test to include one my buddy left on his car and drove off (only to hear something roll back and go bouncing off the asphalt).

I will say I do like the QD mount that comes with the Sig; you have to spend at least another $100+ to get a decent mount for your Acog (not necessary any way).

Based on the OP's review though I'd definitely like to try the Sig out, I just wouldn't buy one without doing so. Thanks for doing so
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:54 AM
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I don't think many people will be willing to buy one until someone does an extensive torture test with favorable results.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpticsPlanet View Post
Great initial feedback!

The price point of that optic and the lack of reviews has definitely kept some people from buying it so really appreciate you posting this.

-Matt S.
No problem Matt.

Like I said I was on the fence on this one but having been active duty and exposed to a lot of changes over 21 years I said what the heck.

Most folks don't like change with anything really and this Bravo 4 is unproven at this point. I am ok with that otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
Having extensive experience with Acogs both in and out of the field, what makes you feel like this optic is equal to one? I'm not familiar at all with Sig's line of glass so you'll have to chime in here..

There are a variety of Acogs that'll provide different lengths of eye relief as well as a variety of illumination options (ambient light, LED, or tritium). You also have the fact that Trijicon offers their Acogs with a variety of reticle styles and in different colors too.

One thing I absolutely love about the Acog is that no matter what, it wouldn't lose zero. Every one I've owned would pass the box test to include one my buddy left on his car and drove off (only to hear something roll back and go bouncing off the asphalt).

I will say I do like the QD mount that comes with the Sig; you have to spend at least another $100+ to get a decent mount for your Acog (not necessary any way).

Based on the OP's review though I'd definitely like to try the Sig out, I just wouldn't buy one without doing so. Thanks for doing so
I was in your same position. I have owned over 15 Acogs over the years of my military service and have tested out many of them extensively. I am by no means an expert but I have experience with many of them from the TA11s, TA31s, TA02s, TA01s, etc.

You're correct, the Trijicons offer a lot of things and more options and just like this kinda new Sig line, in time will offer the same. Trijicon was in the same boat years ago. But look at the Elcan Specter DR which IMO is much better than your standard Acog TA31A. It has the one type of reticle and that has been ok for Canadian forces and some of our military for years. I know its a dual optic compared to a 4X fixed but we get a lot of folks wanting to compare them.

I should have stated that the Sig Bravo 4 is comparable to the Trijicon Acog TA31H which retails at $1500. So the Sig is a little cheaper if you can get a brand new one at $950 with tax and the quick mount release comes standard.

There really isn't a lot of reviews on this optic and quite frankly its unproven at this point. That doesn't mean its a bad optic. Its just not in a lot of peoples hands so there is no experience with them.

I also checked around Southern California and nobody had them in stock at the time so I couldn't take a look at them before I bought one. I wish I would have but I probably still would have bought one.

The other thing I should mention is I will be able to give a better review in 6-12 months of ownership. That way with range trip after range trip I can truly see how this optic holds up to use and whatever else comes up. Since its still pretty new everything is fresh and works fine. We will see come Christmas time how its holding up. By that time, who knows, your local PD may be using them.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teflondog View Post
I don't think many people will be willing to buy one until someone does an extensive torture test with favorable results.
Agreed, like I said its unproven at this point but the Trijicon and Aimpoints were all there at some point in their life.

Quick story...I was one of the first guys in the US to buy a KRISS Vector back in 2008/2009 and folks said the same thing. I saw the prototypes in 2006 because a guy in the military I worked with was testing them two years before they released. Fast forward to 2017 and a lot of folks in the US own a KRISS Vector in some version or another. I have since sold my SBR Vector and civilian version one years ago. There were a few issues with the Vector when they came out. Their buffer pads cracked and busted or just fell off after one range trip. I complained about that in 2009 and George Kucy sent me about 5 green ones that come standard today in 2017 on the KRISS. Also the KRISS would foul up and double feed after 300 rounds of firing. They have kinda fixed that issue now but sometimes I would go through 300 rounds every other day and then the gun would not shoot. Then I would have to break it down and clean it every single time. It just got old.

Anyway time will tell and more experience with this optic will tell.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2017, 2:09 AM
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Just picked up a Sig Romeo 1 and 3.

I went with the Bravo 4 and Sig Romeo 3 as my two in one optic combo. Doesn't beat the Elcan Specter DR but it rivals any Trijicon Acog 4x. Pics to come.
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Last edited by Endless; 07-26-2017 at 2:12 AM..
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:30 AM
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So I am giving an update. It's been about 3 months of ownership and my first issue came up. It had nothing to do with the optic itself more so of the quick release. So apparently a piece got loose and fell off from handling and shooting. I did not recognize it until a week after the fact.

I called up Sig, sent them pictures and explained everything. They responded within 24 hours and already mailed me the part with explanation on how to install and secure and why it came off.

So first strike is negative for the mount.
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Old 09-05-2017, 6:39 AM
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Great to hear that Sig customer service took care of your issue quickly.

Haven't seen too many issues with their stuff so been a little curious how their customer service performed.

Too bad no LaRue or ADM mount available yet...


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Old 09-05-2017, 10:30 AM
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Your picture is too big.

I'm curious why you put a Romeo 3 on top. Does the Bindon Aiming Concept not work with the Bravo 4? Bindon works great with ACOG's.
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Old 09-05-2017, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
Your picture is too big.

I'm curious why you put a Romeo 3 on top. Does the Bindon Aiming Concept not work with the Bravo 4? Bindon works great with ACOG's.
Sorry. I don't have photobucket anymore. This is off imgur. I haven't messed with it.

I did the Romeo 1 and 3 on top of Bravo 4 because I got a few messages wanting to see how it looked. I don't run either on it currently. In fact I took the rail completely off.
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Old 10-29-2017, 10:00 PM
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So, Endless, now that you've had it for a few more months, would you buy the Bravo4 again?

My main concern with Sig products is that when they come up with a new line, the old one just gets dropped like a bad habit. Witness the Sig 556xi line.

Has any department or military used the Bravo4?
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Old 10-29-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
So, Endless, now that you've had it for a few more months, would you buy the Bravo4 again?

My main concern with Sig products is that when they come up with a new line, the old one just gets dropped like a bad habit. Witness the Sig 556xi line.

Has any department or military used the Bravo4?
I would buy it again. My issue is that Sig needs a better mount on the Bravo 4 or hopefully Bobro or Larue make one in the coming months. Then I would say these are equal to a Trijicon Acog.

Again, I would still buy it. Very easy to use, thousands of hours of life and customer service is really good.

I haven’t heard any agencies using the Bravo 4 and our military still uses Aimpoints and Trijicon due to contracts.
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Last edited by Endless; 10-29-2017 at 10:22 PM..
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Old 11-01-2017, 4:14 PM
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So did the repair part to your mount fix it to your satisfaction?

Also, I don't think you mentioned eye relief. How is it?

It would be nice to say I can choose between Elcans and ACOG's but I'm just a working schmuck...
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Old 11-02-2017, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
So did the repair part to your mount fix it to your satisfaction?

Also, I don't think you mentioned eye relief. How is it?

It would be nice to say I can choose between Elcans and ACOG's but I'm just a working schmuck...
It did. Time will tell again.

I did find a sale on it from a company online. BNIB for $700 plus tax. That’s a steal. Everyone else it’s $1000 and up.

Eye relief is good. Similar to an Acog.

I still like and prefer irons but as I get older this Bravo 4 makes aiming so much easier and the buttons for illumination are easy to remember.
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Old 11-03-2017, 2:19 AM
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I saw that. They don't mention which caliber the reticle is for though.
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Old 11-03-2017, 2:44 AM
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I saw that. They don't mention which caliber the reticle is for though.
I couldn’t find it either. I thought at first it was for the 300 Blackout. That would explain the price discount for sure.

When I bought mine it was $1299 for the 5.56/7.62 and the 300 blackout was $1099, so who knows.
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:18 AM
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It wouldn't be a disaster for me because I have a Blackout too I just don't want to put that kind of optic on a gun I paid $400 for.
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Old 11-05-2017, 7:56 AM
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The Bravo4 dropped in price to $700 at Cabela's recently before they stopped carrying them. I was going to link this thread here, but they went out of stock shortly afterward.
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Old 01-28-2018, 11:25 PM
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Bump.

No issues since mount problem and they are still $900-$1299 US wide. Same as Acogs.
Used they are $700-$800.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:49 PM
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Just another update. No issues since the mount issue but I did forget to add that in order to tighten the mount to the rail you have the lever but if it’s too loose you will need a hex driver to tighten or loosen it.

Glass and light still works. Would like to see an FDE version.

I did notice the cheaper versions on Cabellos were for the 300 blackout and that would explain it. The 7.62/5.56 are still $800+ new.
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Old 07-04-2018, 2:26 PM
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Another update. I have one for sale and am keeping one.

Did extensive comparisons with the TA11 and TA31 and I am now for certain that the Sig Bravo 4 is just as good an optic, if not better. Eye relief is superior to the TA31. Weight for me on both is a non issue.

Looks are still subjective but on an AR type firearm the Bravo 4 looks updated and better. Again, quality is about the same.

I understand why they aren’t popular, because folks still just jump on the “I will buy an acog” and be fine. While that is true don’t sell yourself short on the Bravo 4.
For me the TA31 Acog is $900 bnib and the Bravo 4 is $1100. That’s my honest price comparison. Throw on a quick acog release and they are equal in terms of cost.

A couple more pictures for comparison.

This will be my last update. Folks need to take a chance on Sig optics. I know a lot of Californians had never heard of Elcan/Ratheon back in the day until they saw it used in war and by police and then bam everyone jumped on their bandwagon.



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Last edited by Endless; 07-04-2018 at 4:04 PM..
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Old 07-14-2018, 6:20 PM
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OP, thank you for the reviews. Very cool that you take the time to follow up. I followed your updates on this optic closely. Think I even saw your review on Amazon.

Looking at your issues with the mount I found this.

https://trt-tac.com/QD-Picatinny-rai...ile-50-530.htm

Cheers.

Last edited by Super Chicken; 07-14-2018 at 6:23 PM.. Reason: Dam mobile...
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Old 07-19-2018, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Chicken View Post
OP, thank you for the reviews. Very cool that you take the time to follow up. I followed your updates on this optic closely. Think I even saw your review on Amazon.

Looking at your issues with the mount I found this.

https://trt-tac.com/QD-Picatinny-rai...ile-50-530.htm

Cheers.
No worries. I wish it came in green. I did see that mount and I passed it to the military guy that has it now. He already bought the mount and says it’s an improvement over the factory mount.

I just didn’t like the factory mount. It’s secure but sitting in the safe the lever somehow fell off? Lol

Warranty department out of Oregon saw all photos and sent me replacement parts to fix and it fixed the problem. They are very good on response and shipping overnight the parts. I like that.

Took 1 day for warranty department to recognize issue and following day parts were sent to me next day air.

Trijicon has been just as good and fast. Infact today I had an issue with another acog I have and customer service explained everything on the spot. Took 15 mins and I was happy.
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Last edited by Endless; 07-19-2018 at 6:42 PM..
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