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  #41  
Old 05-19-2018, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Akin View Post
Also, can we define “low serial number”?
In a nutshell, Springfield Armory, prior to about February, 1918, used a method of heat treating 1903 receivers and bolts which rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

Note the language "approximately serial number 800,000" above. CMP will not allow any Springfield 1903 with a serial number below 810,000 to be used in any CMP competition.
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2018, 7:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
I don't think that's why they made 03A3s into drill rifles. The 03A3 is safe to shoot.
I didn't say 03A'3 were a problem, the 03A3 drill rifles that were welded at the barrel and receiver could very well be unsafe to shoot. I'm not willing to be the one holding one if it blows up any more than a 03 low number and one that is welded to boot. I've seen the failures on the receiver and it aint pretty, I wont even be on a line when someone is shooting them.

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  #43  
Old 05-20-2018, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
In a nutshell, Springfield Armory, prior to about February, 1918, used a method of heat treating 1903 receivers and bolts which rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

Note the language "approximately serial number 800,000" above. CMP will not allow any 1903 with a serial number below 810,000 to be used in any CMP competition.
I remember that RI also changed their steel with a higher nickle content it helps with a catastrophic failure, they stretch more and are tougher steel than the other types. CMP wont let low number rifles be used for a real good reason, it's dangerous.
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  #44  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:01 AM
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I remember that RI also changed their steel with a higher nickle content it helps with a catastrophic failure, they stretch more and are tougher steel than the other types. CMP wont let low number rifles be used for a real good reason, it's dangerous.
I believe part of the problem was also caused by workmen "eyeballing" the color of the receivers during forging, to determine their temperature. Apparently some of these receivers were over-temped during the process. Pyrometers were installed to give the forging temperatures some consistency and precision.
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  #45  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:18 AM
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I didn't say 03A'3 were a problem, the 03A3 drill rifles that were welded at the barrel and receiver could very well be unsafe to shoot. I'm not willing to be the one holding one if it blows up any more than a 03 low number and one that is welded to boot. I've seen the failures on the receiver and it aint pretty, I wont even be on a line when someone is shooting them.
There's so many recovered drill rifles, you'd never know if someone on the line was shooting one or not. Easy to tell a low number, but some of the recovered drill rifles were so well done you'd never know it ever was. Same thing with M1 Garand rewelds and/or recovered drill rifles
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  #46  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:53 AM
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just to be clear, low number 1903's are vulnerable only when the cartridge case fails.

they are not dangerous unless that happens.
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  #47  
Old 05-20-2018, 9:48 AM
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http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/
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  #48  
Old 05-20-2018, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
I believe part of the problem was also caused by workmen "eyeballing" the color of the receivers during forging, to determine their temperature. Apparently some of these receivers were over-temped during the process. Pyrometers were installed to give the forging temperatures some consistency and precision.
Yep, the old boy's were good but not quiet good enough for high pressure cartridges. Today it's overcast and nobody has washed windows in the plant for 10 years and we get the color right. Then someone washed the windows and the sun came out.........oh ****, same color different heat/temp=bad juju. Burnt and brittle receivers=no good. Then to top it off lets shoot some tin plated bullets and maybe dip them in grease again no good will come of this. Once they got it right they were good very good.
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  #49  
Old 05-20-2018, 4:01 PM
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Mine appears to be made by Remington, and the serial number is in the 3.5 million range

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The magazine disconnect flap is the cut off area. When they made them into drill rifles they tack welded the cut off so the bolt could not be removed.


Low number serial number 800,000 and lower for Springfield and 285,507 and lower for Rock Island.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1903-m1903a3/
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  #50  
Old 05-20-2018, 4:15 PM
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Well within the time frame for reclaimed drill rifles. Can you post some detailed pictures of the cut off area? Also the barrel/receiver joint?
Thanks
hmmm... this site apparently doesn't allow you to upload pictures. It's been years since I encountered this problem. How... old school.

I only upload pictures to facebook these days, so I don't even know where to start to find some way to share pictures in a forum any more.
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  #51  
Old 05-20-2018, 4:55 PM
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A 3.5 million is not a low number so that ends that, but it could still be a reclaimed drill rifle. Yes you can up load pictures if you do it right, without good pictures of the right areas we can not tell you if it was welded or not.
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Old 05-20-2018, 5:08 PM
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How do you upload a picture? When I click the "insert image" button, it asks for the link to the picture, as if I still used photo hosting sites like ten years ago

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A 3.5 million is not a low number so that ends that, but it could still be a reclaimed drill rifle. Yes you can up load pictures if you do it right, without good pictures of the right areas we can not tell you if it was welded or not.
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  #53  
Old 05-20-2018, 5:21 PM
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Mine appears to be made by Remington, and the serial number is in the 3.5 million range
Remington didn't make any low number serial. I think 3.5 million would make it an 03A3. I think it was in the 3.3 million range that they started the 03A3.


My Remington 03A3 is in 3.8 million range, also have a Springfield 03 in 1.3 million and Springfield 113,xxx low number that someone sporterized, none of these were ex drill rifles.
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Old 05-20-2018, 5:26 PM
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How do you upload a picture? When I click the "insert image" button, it asks for the link to the picture, as if I still used photo hosting sites like ten years ago
I click the paper clip symbol then click choose file and upload picture.
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Old 05-20-2018, 5:36 PM
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Put pics on MyFace and post the link here.
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  #56  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:50 PM
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Put pics on MyFace and post the link here.
My facebook is locked down and friends only, none of y'all would be able to see them
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  #57  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:50 PM
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Yeah, it's an 03A3

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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Remington didn't make any low number serial. I think 3.5 million would make it an 03A3. I think it was in the 3.3 million range that they started the 03A3.


My Remington 03A3 is in 3.8 million range, also have a Springfield 03 in 1.3 million and Springfield 113,xxx low number that someone sporterized, none of these were ex drill rifles.
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  #58  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:54 PM
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Thanks, I had no idea you could do that!

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I click the paper clip symbol then click choose file and upload picture.
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  #59  
Old 05-20-2018, 8:59 PM
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Well within the time frame for reclaimed drill rifles. Can you post some detailed pictures of the cut off area? Also the barrel/receiver joint?
Thanks
Sheesh, these close ups make it look like it's covered with rust. It doesn't actually look that way in person. How weird.

IMG_2079.jpg

IMG_2081.jpg

IMG_2083.jpg
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  #60  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:35 PM
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Something doesn't look quite right. Heavily sandblasted and no machine or grinding marks typical to Rem A3 receiver. The cut directly above the cut off looks funny, like some weld wasn't machined away.


Here is an original one for comparison. Notice the machine and grinding marks are crisp, unlike the ones in your picture.
No matter, the cure for your original problem was the spindle screw, which you remedied earlier.









Can you post one from this angle, looking down?
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  #61  
Old 05-21-2018, 9:07 AM
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That there is a reactivated drill rifle. No doubt.
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File Type: jpg IMG_2081.jpg (96.5 KB, 20 views)
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  #62  
Old 05-21-2018, 9:24 AM
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Well that's disappointing. They probably should have mentioned that at the time.

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That there is a reactivated drill rifle. No doubt.
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  #63  
Old 05-21-2018, 9:38 AM
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Well that's disappointing. They probably should have mentioned that at the time.
Yes it is complete BS and a misrepresentation. HOWEVER - the important part is the front receiver ring. If it was not heat-affected, then the rifle is safe to shoot. They were tacked on the bottom.

Last edited by God Bless America; 05-21-2018 at 9:40 AM..
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  #64  
Old 05-21-2018, 9:45 AM
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How would I determine if it was?

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Yes it is complete BS and a misrepresentation. HOWEVER - the important part is the front receiver ring. If it was not heat-affected, then the rifle is safe to shoot. They were tacked on the bottom.
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  #65  
Old 05-21-2018, 9:53 AM
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Look for discoloration. Metal with diffetent degrees of heat treating will parkerize at different color. Remove the receiver from the action and post a pic of the bottom of the receiver ring. All that really matters is that the lugs did not get soft.
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  #66  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:02 AM
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... The place I bought this from said they had a couple of cases of them and were building them out.

Anyone having "cases" of 03-A3 receivers in this century throws up more than a few red flags.
BUT, if the lugs did not get heat affected, then you are OK.
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Old 05-21-2018, 7:03 PM
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Grendl and Ken, look at the bolt shroud, looks to me like a knock off. I agree the rifle so far looks like a drill rifle reactivated. Lets hope they didn't get it to hot when they put the weld in the receiver. I hope he didn't pay very much for that thing.
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Old 05-21-2018, 7:07 PM
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Grendl and Ken, look at the bolt shroud, looks to me like a knock off.
Looks rust-pitted to me.
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Old 05-21-2018, 8:00 PM
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Looks rust-pitted to me.



That's what I see.
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Old 05-21-2018, 8:20 PM
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Oddly enough, in person, it really doesn’t look like that. No pitting at all. *barely* any surface rust, which is odd as it’s stored in one of those silicon gun socks.
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Old 05-21-2018, 8:50 PM
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Oddly enough, in person, it really doesn’t look like that. No pitting at all. *barely* any surface rust, which is odd as it’s stored in one of those silicon gun socks.


The pitting on the bolt sleeve probably happened before you were born. It has been refinished over the pits. Tons of reject, worn, discarded, scrapped, broken, and rusted parts were sold as scrap by Uncle Sam for years for all models of US Service rifles. Sometimes they make their way back into circulation sold as used but serviceable parts. The sleeve in your picture has seen better days.
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Old 05-22-2018, 8:09 AM
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Yes that's park over rust pitting. May have spent decades in a VFW post or high school ROTC program before it was reactivated.

Personally, I'm happy it was reactivated, but it should have been done properly and priced accordingly... which might have been the case here. I don't recall OP saying what he paid.
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  #73  
Old 05-22-2018, 8:13 AM
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Yes that's park over rust pitting. May have spent decades in a VFW post or high school ROTC program before it was reactivated.

Personally, I'm happy it was reactivated, but it should have been done properly and priced accordingly... which might have been the case here. I don't recall OP saying what he paid.
Nine hundred something. And it was allegedly built up from a receiver that had been in storage with all other parts new.
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Old 05-22-2018, 8:21 AM
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Sorry, they lied to you. Did you say it was Aim? Doesn't sound like them.

I seem to recall a while back they were selling reactivated drill rifles but that was clear from the description which was how I knew. I also recall wondering if they were permanently marked as such for posterity.
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Old 05-22-2018, 8:26 AM
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No, not Aim. It was some place in Kentucky, I forget exactly and I must have ordered via phone because I can't find any invoice or anything in my gmail. I likely have a paper one somewhere, but lord knows what box it's in.

:-/

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Sorry, they lied to you. Did you say it was Aim? Doesn't sound like them.

I seem to recall a while back they were selling reactivated drill rifles but that was clear from the description which was how I knew. I also recall wondering if they were permanently marked as such for posterity.
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Old 05-22-2018, 8:34 AM
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Nine hundred something. And it was allegedly built up from a receiver that had been in storage with all other parts new.

Too bad. One could probably find an original A3 with decent finish in that price range now.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:24 AM
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900 for a reclaimed drill rifle, that's a shame. I know where there is a very mice Remington 03A3 that's not a reclaimed for just about that money.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:48 AM
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Centerfire Systems is in Versailles, KY.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre.../topics/254744
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:04 PM
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The Pacific miniseries really drove the price up on 03 and 03A3, because they used 03A3s in the series and lots of people wanted one after watching it.

Saving Private Ryan is probably why they were making fake 03A4 out of 03A3 drill rifles.
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Centerfire Systems is in Versailles, KY.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre.../topics/254744
Good find. A little more poking around came up with this https://web.archive.org/web/20120412...NG-SCANTC.aspx

$750 with no mention of ex-drill status.
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