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#41
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#42
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Go to a match some time and take a poll of how many competitive shooters trim their pistol brass. |
#43
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Mostly quality, Major QTY. |
#44
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I'd rather save that time to load/shoot more. |
#45
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Imagine a flashlight beam coming out of the muzzle of your gun, like a cone. Of course you have to keep the beam on the target. That's all about fundamentals. On the other hand, you would want as small a beam as possible once you realize that having the beam on the target isn't going to get the round on target... instead it's the area within which your bullet can randomly land. I would much rather have a very small area in which my bullet can randomly land than a larger one. Pistols, unless they're in a rest, won't make a difference. That's why I don't bother trimming. In a benched rifle, on the other hand, will make a difference. For me, even a fifth of an inch at 100yds makes a difference. Will trimming the brass (changing the pressure, and therefore likely the height of the shot placement) for that purpose make a difference? Absolutely. I won't be going without brass trimming in the future. And... when it comes down to it... prepping brass is part of the fun of reloading. I won't be doing it in pistol, but I'll always do it (even for plinking) for rifle. So.. I think we're agreeing... we're just talking about two different things. I'm answering the OP's third item about it making a difference in rifle shooting. You seem to be sticking more with the pistol aspect.
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#46
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#47
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Trim handgun brass? No way. Rifle? Yup.
Unless you're shooting MOA with your handgun, there is no point. There may be one or two people who can do it, like that fellow that popped the balloon with his revolver from 600 yards. He clearly is an expert shot and did this to demonstrate that Elmer Keith's famed 600-yard deer shot was actually possible. Elmer himself was another rare individual who might've been able to do MOA with a handgun. But most people are not Elmer. Even Jerry Miculek, as great as he is, would have trouble matching that particular feat. Not saying he couldn't. But even he'd have to severely work at it. So, I view trimming handgun brass as a total waste of time. By contrast, doing 1/2 MOA with a rifle is plausible after a year or two of regular, and frequent, practice. Say you're practicing 3 times a week with your rifle at various distances. I would expect you'd be able to do 1/2 MOA pretty easily with a typical Remington 700, Savage, Mauser, or Mosin (all in good shape, of course) and a good handload. Also bear in mind that typical rifle cases stretch considerably more than handgun cases. Even .44M cases with repeated full-house loads will typically split before they stretch too far. Maybe .460 S&W Magnum, due to its length, is a special-case scenario (no pun intended). But none of my .357M or .44M cases have ever required it.
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"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun" F***ing with people's heads, one gun show at a time. Hallelujah! http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com (reloading info w/ videos) http://www.liberalsguncorner.com (podcast) http://www.youtube.com/sfliberal (YouTube channel) ---------------------------------------------------- To be a true Liberal, you must be 100% pro-Second Amendment. Anything less is inconsistent with liberalism. |
#48
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^^ This, straight-wall pistol cases don't stretch so trimming is not needed for semi-auto cartridge ammo. I have loaded both one batch and mixed batch pistol cases (9x19, 9x21 and .38 super) and crimp is not effected, no die changes needed. In fact, you really aren't crimping on a straight-wall pistol case used in semi-autos, all you are doing is removing the case mouth belling added to seat the bullet easily. This is done using a taper crimp die and that is very insensitive to small case length changes.
If you are roll crimping for rimmed pistol cases like .38 special, .357M and .44M, then you do want case length uniformity and trimming may help some here. I only use one batch cases for my .44M loading and don't need to trim as length is too close to matter. |
#49
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#50
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#51
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#52
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A placebo effect perhaps
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#53
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I have Rem 222 cases with an easy 15+ reloads (35-45g bullets running hot) and I have alot of 223 cases sized down to 222 with 8+ reload on top of how ever many times it was reloaded as 223.
Some cases are 50yrs old. I only toss them ( re-use for messuring cups) when badly split. |
#54
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A couple of years ago I decided to see how many times I could reload a FC 9mm case. I went to the range, sat down with two Lee hand presses and my Little Dandy powder measure. I used a Hornady 147 XTP because its boat-tail base eliminated the expanding and crimping steps. I only sized, primed, charged and seated. The load was 3.7 grs of 231. I quit at 35 reloads. I still have the case.
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#55
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Rifle vs handgun brass isn't the issue. Bottle necked brass vs straight walled is. Of course, tapered brass like 300 carbine needs to be trimmed just like all bottle necked brass. Trimming isn't just about precision. It is also about SAFETY. Anyone who thinks it is not worth trimming bottle necked handgun brass because they can't shoot 1moa with the handgun is a danger to themself and everyone around them. There are plenty of handguns chambered in bottle necked cartridges which could blow up in the shooter's face if the brass is out of spec.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
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