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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-17-2018, 7:54 AM
chris_w chris_w is offline
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Default Longer distance rifle question

Hi there

Iíve been shooting my Tikka T3X CTR 20Ē in 6.5 Creedmoor and enjoying longrange shooting. I was considering getting the Tikka TAC A1 24Ē 6.5 but then held a Masterpiece Arms 24Ē 6.5 Creedmoor BA.... of the two, is there a big difference in quality or performance?

Any advice?

Thanks
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Old 07-17-2018, 8:34 AM
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Default Longer distance rifle question

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Originally Posted by chris_w View Post
Hi there

Iíve been shooting my Tikka T3X CTR 20Ē in 6.5 Creedmoor and enjoying longrange shooting. I was considering getting the Tikka TAC A1 24Ē 6.5 but then held a Masterpiece Arms 24Ē 6.5 Creedmoor BA.... of the two, is there a big difference in quality or performance?

Any advice?

Thanks
I don't know what your idea of long distance is, but your 20" 6.5 can produce enough velocity to work in the 1k range on steel targets the guns you are considering, are marketed towards. You may need to hand load to gain velocity, but it can work well. Sense you looking at guns design long range practical or positional shooting, I'll assume your intended use.

I am seeing a lot of Tikka TACs and CTRs starting to show up with guys interested in practical precision long range shooting or positional shooting like seen at NRL or PRS type environments. I have to say that they seem to really shoot. I shot a couple and it isn't the gun that is going to miss. The biggest difference is your CTRs stock VRS the TAC; Is that it may have fitting issues that you might or might not be able to adjust out and optional attachments are harder to mount.

The main difference is going to be the adjustably of the TAC chassis. I would consider all the chassis/stock options for your CTR and later a custom barrel, before buying nearly the same gun in the TAC A1. Or just jump to the MPA "if" that MPA chassis is really what you want and you want a custom barrel. There are a lot of other stocks and chassis to choose from with your Tikka.

The biggest difference in the MPA and the TAC A1, is with the MPA (and most other stock/chassis upgrade options) that you'll get out of those crappy Tikka mags, have a chassis that is set up to accept some of the devices positional shooters are using like RRS tripods and sliding bipods and have of course a custom for bragging rights.

It might be worth noting that the Tikkas I have seen recently, seem to group really well but don't have the mv that I'd imagine they should. So generally the top end custom barrels are faster than what I saw from the last several TACs.
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:26 AM
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Are you going to compete in PRS or something like it? The MPA chassis is the number one choice in that game right now. It has the ARCA rail underneath and MPA makes a lot of gadgets aimed toward that competition, as you can see from their website.

I've fondled both as well, and my enthusiasm for the Tikka waned after playing with the MPA. A lot of that had to do with the Curtis Custom Axiom action. What action was on the MPA you looked at?

I will say for casual range shooting limited to 1000 yards or so, not to mention saving a lot of money, the Tikka would be tempting. The MPA is a heavy beast, and just hauling it around takes away some of the fun.
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Old 07-17-2018, 5:21 PM
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If the MPA is to heavy then you better hit the gym...I shoot a MPA comp chassis axiom with a 26Ē heavy Palma in PRS/tactical type matches...Iím 54yrs old and have no issues with it being to heavy.

If the MPA is in fact a Curtis Customs action then itís a no brainer...spend the extra and get the MPA...once you run a 60deg bolt youíll never want another 90deg action


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Old 07-17-2018, 7:26 PM
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Tikka is a 70 degree action, not a 90.
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Old 07-17-2018, 7:44 PM
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Didnít realize and donít really care to be honest...have you bought a rifle yet or still just dishing out all your book read info


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Old 07-17-2018, 8:07 PM
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Someone has to read a book now and then, to keep the record straight.
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Old 07-17-2018, 8:18 PM
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Thatís what I thought....know everything about every modern rifle but have no real world experience


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Old 07-17-2018, 8:22 PM
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Oh dear...
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Old 07-17-2018, 9:41 PM
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All of the MPA rifles are built on Curtis Customs with Spencer barrels. They shoot well, but are not really comparable to an off the shelf Tikka. It's apples and oranges. Also, something to look out for, a lot of the MPAs I have seen sitting on store shelves were configured with the standard BA chassis on them instead of the comp. Must be a better price point for sales or something. IMO the magwell cut on the comp chassis is worth it and any cost difference between the two will more or less be absorbed by replacing the monopod with the bag rider if you opt for the BA chassis.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:14 PM
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Default Longer distance rifle question

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Originally Posted by Meety Peety View Post
All of the MPA rifles are built on Curtis Customs with Spencer barrels. They shoot well, but are not really comparable to an off the shelf Tikka. It's apples and oranges. Also, something to look out for, a lot of the MPAs I have seen sitting on store shelves were configured with the standard BA chassis on them instead of the comp. Must be a better price point for sales or something. IMO the magwell cut on the comp chassis is worth it and any cost difference between the two will more or less be absorbed by replacing the monopod with the bag rider if you opt for the BA chassis.

Those are good points.

I have the full length RRS dovetail on my Comp.. thatís a stand out feature. Are some of the older BAs also missing the full length dovetails?



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  #12  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:57 PM
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Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I should have given more details in my original post. I have the Tikka and have built around it with a MDT HS3 chassis, Magpul PRS 3 stock, bipod and good glass - it’s been a great learning experience. I’m confident out to 500+ yards and the PRS bug has hit me. I’d like to progress further in this shooting discipline and maybe compete locally. I know, I can continue to learn and work on stretching distance with my current setup but curious if making the jump to another platform will help. Plus - I guess I’m itching to hone my skills on something new. I will need to confirm the action but believe it was a Curtis.

Last edited by chris_w; 07-17-2018 at 11:02 PM..
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Old 07-18-2018, 6:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_w View Post
Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I should have given more details in my original post. I have the Tikka and have built around it with a MDT HS3 chassis, Magpul PRS 3 stock, bipod and good glass - itís been a great learning experience. Iím confident out to 500+ yards and the PRS bug has hit me. Iíd like to progress further in this shooting discipline and maybe compete locally. I know, I can continue to learn and work on stretching distance with my current setup but curious if making the jump to another platform will help. Plus - I guess Iím itching to hone my skills on something new. I will need to confirm the action but believe it was a Curtis.


Even a stronger case NOT go to the TAC.

Have you practiced on obstacles? PM me if your in norcal


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Old 07-18-2018, 6:50 AM
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You should take some courses on long range shooting. It’ll hone your skills and build on the knowledge you already have.

I’ve trained with and highly recommend Uncle Scotty (Reitz)with ITTS. He is an incredible instructor.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:17 AM
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Thanks again for the advice. I’m located in SoCal and very interested in joining a local club or taking classes. If anyone can recommend either in my general vicinity it would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
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Old 07-18-2018, 8:59 PM
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Get the MPA

I would suggest a 6 creedmore over 6.5, only because I wasn't able to get anything factory shooting under 3/4 moa in my MPA/Spencer. Ammo is in stock at Bass Pro and plenty more places.

Some clubs:

http://nrl22.org/clubs/club-socal-precision-rifle-team/
https://www.smgunclub.org/
https://practiscore.com/clubs/san-di...ion-rifle-club

SDPRC has been running some train-ups recently

I'd go out to Pala or Angeles range a couple times and get comfortable with your equipment before spending money on a class.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:06 PM
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calshipbuilder

Thanks for the links. Surprised to hear about the 6mm over 6.5mm. Do you or anyone else know of any events or clubs closer to North LA (Santa Clarita).

Iím now leaning toward the MPA now but might wait a bit using my Tikka through the summer. Iíve not competed in any matches to date so Iíll need some practice with barriers and such. Iíve seen many PRS events online and looking forward to a local event
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:33 PM
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Burbank Rifle Revolver Club has "PRS type" matches I believe (or at least used to). They're not too far from Santa Clarita.

https://brrc.org/
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:48 PM
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No problem, I went through 5 or 6 different factory match loads, called MPA and they said that if I want better I should hand load. The whole point of that rifle was to not hand load like I do for all my other rifles :-). I don't say that to degenerate them, they make awesome products and their rifles are a smoking deal, I just wouldn't expect GA Precision level accuracy from them with factory ammo. Another thing to consider is it will be a long time before a 3/4 moa rifle is the thing holding you back in precision rifle matches. So if you want the 6.5, go for it and wear the barrel out learning.

6mm cartridges have their advantages - mostly due to lower recoil, a good resource for comparing precision rifle cartridges is precisionrifleblog.com

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calshipbuilder

Thanks for the links. Surprised to hear about the 6mm over 6.5mm. Do you or anyone else know of any events or clubs closer to North LA (Santa Clarita).

Iím now leaning toward the MPA now but might wait a bit using my Tikka through the summer. Iíve not competed in any matches to date so Iíll need some practice with barriers and such. Iíve seen many PRS events online and looking forward to a local event
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:53 PM
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I got a screaming deal on mine from discount gun mart, I'm afraid to say how much... It has a short section of dovetail in front of the mag well, and was the standard chassis. In my case the discount was worth it. I went with the improved bag rider. I haven't had any feeding issues without the castle cut.

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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Those are good points.

I have the full length RRS dovetail on my Comp.. thatís a stand out feature. Are some of the older BAs also missing the full length dovetails?



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Old 07-18-2018, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_w View Post
Surprised to hear about the 6mm over 6.5mm.
6mm vs 6.5mm...

6mm has lighter weight bullets that recoil less and cost less because there is less lead/copper in them.
6mm bullets generally have higher BC's so that drift less in the wind and shoot flatter than 6.5mm bullets.

The downside of 6mm vs 6.5mm is that 6mm bores wear out faster than 6.5mm bores given the same basic powder charge being used in both cartriudges (6mm creedmoor vs 6.5mm creedmoor).


I did a calculation years ago that you will shoot about 5000 rounds to wear out three 6mm barrels or two 6.5mm barrels.
The savings in the bullet cost will pay for the extra barrel blank.
Therefore, the only difference in cost over 5000 rounds of use between the two calibers is the gunsmithing cost for 1 extra barrel.
if you spent $400 fitting a barrel and brake, that would end up being about 8 cents a round difference in cost per round when amortized over 5000 rounds.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:27 AM
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OP, if the MPA you were looking at is 6 CM, look on the barrel. They put the factory load that the barrel was throated for on the barrel. If you think that won't be the ammo you'll want to use, or they don't have one in the shop, and you want to order one anyway, contact MPA and see if they can throat it for the ammo you will want to use.

It's just one more nice little thing about MPA's that makes it easier to get it shooting well in a shorter time.
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Old 07-19-2018, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
Get the MPA

I would suggest a 6 creedmore over 6.5, only because I wasn't able to get anything factory shooting under 3/4 moa in my MPA/Spencer. Ammo is in stock at Bass Pro and plenty more places.

Some clubs:

http://nrl22.org/clubs/club-socal-precision-rifle-team/
https://www.smgunclub.org/
https://practiscore.com/clubs/san-di...ion-rifle-club

SDPRC has been running some train-ups recently

I'd go out to Pala or Angeles range a couple times and get comfortable with your equipment before spending money on a class.
I was going to suggest the SDPRC train ups as well, good call. I am surprized to hear your MPA only shoots 3/4, I would have expected more in the ballpark of 1/2" to 5/8" with factory loads.. but I suppose every MFG is capable of producing a not so great barrel from time to time, could be what happened to you? Kind of a bummer either way.

OP, I know it's a bit of a drive for you, but there is a match at pala this weekend that you could check out and talk to the match director and RSOs about getting signed up for the train up. It will be more than worth your while to see what these matches are all about and see what guys are using and how they approach different stages.

Caliber selection is something that everyone has different priorities for. I personally would probably lean toward a caliber that has a little bit higher barrel life while you're learning the ropes, but it ultimately comes down to your priorities and budget. Remember, dry fire is easy to make time for, free to do and doesn't eat up your barrel life. Dry fire often.
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Old 07-19-2018, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meety Peety View Post
I was going to suggest the SDPRC train ups as well, good call. I am surprized to hear your MPA only shoots 3/4, I would have expected more in the ballpark of 1/2" to 5/8" with factory loads.. but I suppose every MFG is capable of producing a not so great barrel from time to time, could be what happened to you? Kind of a bummer either way.

OP, I know it's a bit of a drive for you, but there is a match at pala this weekend that you could check out and talk to the match director and RSOs about getting signed up for the train up. It will be more than worth your while to see what these matches are all about and see what guys are using and how they approach different stages.

Caliber selection is something that everyone has different priorities for. I personally would probably lean toward a caliber that has a little bit higher barrel life while you're learning the ropes, but it ultimately comes down to your priorities and budget. Remember, dry fire is easy to make time for, free to do and doesn't eat up your barrel life. Dry fire often.


How do I get more info on this train up?
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Old 07-19-2018, 7:18 PM
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I will definitely be taking everyone’s advice and join some events
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
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How do I get more info on this train up?
sdprc.1@gmail.com

Last edited by calshipbuilder; 07-19-2018 at 11:32 PM..
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