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  #1  
Old 02-01-2018, 12:50 PM
BONECUTTER BONECUTTER is offline
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Default New NON Real ID Drivers Licenses.

Just had my first one that is stamped "Federal Limits Apply"
Way to make it even more confusing CA.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
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Old 02-01-2018, 1:00 PM
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Means they have questionable immigration status. Would tread lightly or at least make sure they sign something that denotes your restocking fee policy.
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Old 02-01-2018, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Means they have questionable immigration status. Would tread lightly or at least make sure they sign something that denotes your restocking fee policy.
In my customers case he had a standard CA Drivers License and just renewed it. If you dont want to make an appointment 3 months out to go and stand in line you get the "Federal Limit's Apply" one.
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Old 02-01-2018, 1:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
In my customers case he had a standard CA Drivers License and just renewed it. If you dont want to make an appointment 3 months out to go and stand in line you get the "Federal Limit's Apply" one.
Watch the rush when the feds finally get their act together and require photo ID proof of citizenship to vote.
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Old 02-01-2018, 1:20 PM
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Yea be careful, because FED LIMITS APPLY will show on AB 60 lisences issued to non legal residents.
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Old 02-01-2018, 1:24 PM
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California, Aiding and Abetting criminals? Say it ain't so.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2018, 6:26 AM
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In 2018 everyone who wants to board a plane or enter a Federal facility will need a REAL ID (or additional acceptable alternate documentation).

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

Maybe that's it

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Starting January 22, 2018, passengers who have driver's licenses issued by a state that is not yet compliant with REAL ID and that has not received an extension will need to show an alternative form of acceptable identification for domestic air travel. Please see TSA's website for a list of acceptable forms of identification. Passengers who have licenses issued by a state that is compliant or that has an extension to become compliant with REAL ID requirements may continue to use their licenses as usual. For a list of states already in compliance or with an extension visit DHS's REAL ID webpage. DHS continually updates this list as more states come into compliance or obtain extensions.

*American Samoa is subject to REAL ID enforcement as of February 5, 2018.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2018, 7:16 AM
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Yeah if a person doesn't expect to fly or enter a federal building (that requires ID) then they don't need to get the new real ID... plenty of regular citizens will have that one.. does the AB60 version not have an additional mark on it? I thought it was?
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2018, 7:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Yeah if a person doesn't expect to fly or enter a federal building (that requires ID) then they don't need to get the new real ID... plenty of regular citizens will have that one.. does the AB60 version not have an additional mark on it? I thought it was?
You can look up the 2-10-16 DES bulletin to compare them. Very similar.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2018, 7:33 AM
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I wouldn't mind a few fake IDs in whatever name I associate with at the moment. It could be very useful if I decide to take up a career as a criminal.

This brings up an interesting scenario.
Could you imagine using Google face recognition on the DMV data base?
We could solve lots of crime that way.
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2018, 2:00 PM
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So plot thickens.Got my first one today and called DES support to see if there was anything else I should do paperwork wise. Since they sent a bullet out that said we can't DROS to IDs with that verbiage we are supposed to wait till they can sort it out. I called and left a message for our field rep as well. Way to screw more stuff up.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2018, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
So plot thickens.Got my first one today and called DES support to see if there was anything else I should do paperwork wise. Since they sent a bullet out that said we can't DROS to IDs with that verbiage we are supposed to wait till they can sort it out. I called and left a message for our field rep as well. Way to screw more stuff up.
Which bulletin are you talking about? I don't recall it and perhaps it was quite some time ago.

Is this what you are talking about?

Assembly Bill (AB) 60 Driver's License.pdf

If they are marking US residents with that, then they care confusing illegal with legal residents, which is not surprising and they should mark it some other way.
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Last edited by kemasa; 02-03-2018 at 2:55 PM..
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2018, 5:12 PM
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Yeah the ab60 license memo is the one I am talking about. The new license was marked exactly the same as an ab60 license
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2018, 5:24 PM
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Nice way to stop firearm sales. Make it hard to get a real license. In theory, if they had a passport then it should be acceptable, but who knows if the DOJ would allow that. Quite interesting mixing the two together now.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:36 AM
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Here's a few issues I have with the memo regarding AB 60 licenses and the new DMV regulations regarding 'real ID's'.

1. The memo dated 2-10-16 never says we have to prove lawful immigration status. We don't do that now with normal ID's. It merely states what we already knew is that persons unlawfully in the US may not buy firearms.

2. Before it was easy to spot who was here legally and not based on the fact of nobody here legally would have a 'federal limits apply' ID. Now we have US citizens being issued the same ID's with the same wording as somebody here legally. If somebody states they are a US citizen and answers the 4473 correctly why wouldn't we submit their DROS using their newly issued NON-REAL ID?

3. I don't see how anybody that's a US citizen would be denied their right to purchase because their state issues the same ID to them that they do to an illegal immigrant.

We just had our first case of this here the other day. Guy is US citizen, DROS'd before and got approved. Renewed his DL as usual and got this new Federal Limits Apply ID.

What is everyone doing with these now? Is anybody turning somebody away because of their ID?
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  #16  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Here's a few issues I have with the memo regarding AB 60 licenses and the new DMV regulations regarding 'real ID's'.

1. The memo dated 2-10-16 never says we have to prove lawful immigration status. We don't do that now with normal ID's. It merely states what we already knew is that persons unlawfully in the US may not buy firearms.

2. Before it was easy to spot who was here legally and not based on the fact of nobody here legally would have a 'federal limits apply' ID. Now we have US citizens being issued the same ID's with the same wording as somebody here legally. If somebody states they are a US citizen and answers the 4473 correctly why wouldn't we submit their DROS using their newly issued NON-REAL ID?

3. I don't see how anybody that's a US citizen would be denied their right to purchase because their state issues the same ID to them that they do to an illegal immigrant.

We just had our first case of this here the other day. Guy is US citizen, DROS'd before and got approved. Renewed his DL as usual and got this new Federal Limits Apply ID.

What is everyone doing with these now? Is anybody turning somebody away because of their ID?
We won't be turning them away.. I still ask them are you a US citizen when they say they are not born in the US. If they lie to me and on the 4473 then hopefully DOJ does their job and denies and arrests them if they are using an AB60 license. Doubtful that will occur though.
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2018, 11:25 AM
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I am just going to take them. Lost the sale on the first one. State hasn't provided an answer so screw em. I am having a hard enough time trying to make a living.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:50 AM
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So this will be the actual difference between a citizen and a civilian?
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:07 PM
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We took this one yesterday and said F this. I cant play these sort of games. This is the law of unintended consequences with stupid laws like AB60 get passed.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:08 PM
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THE BULITEN STATES The purpose of this notice is to advise California Firearms Dealers (CFDs) that the AB 60
driver’s licenses are meant to grant the licensee legal ability to drive and does not
establish eligibility to purchase firearms. The purpose of this notice is to advise California Firearms Dealers (CFDs) that the AB 60
driver’s licenses are meant to grant the licensee legal ability to drive and does not
establish eligibility to purchase firearms. "

It didnt say we cant use the ID, it just said it doesnt mean automticly they can buy guns.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:14 PM
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California: Proof that with enough idiots in charge, you really can screw every single thing up.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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  #22  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:37 PM
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Just DROSd at Turners, and they about turned me away.. I’m a regular there and they ultimately let me submit. Hope nothing happens on DOJ side, though I don’t believe they can see the difference in ID. That is unless it automatically pops up as “Federal Limits Apply.” I offered my old ID that isn’t expired, but will expire before the 10 days and they said, “negative.” Fingers crossed!
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
The purpose of this notice is to advise California Firearms Dealers (CFDs) that the AB 60
driver’s licenses are meant to grant the licensee legal ability to drive and does not
establish eligibility to purchase firearms. "
When has an ID ever established eligibility to purchase firearms?
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:48 PM
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Exactly. It is a null and void bulletin now that more than more than just non-residents are being issued them.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
Exactly. It is a null and void bulletin now that more than more than just non-residents are being issued them.
Right, but you have people like mentioned above that were being turned away at turners because of the bulletin.

I'm actually pissed they're doing this to US citizens, and like OC said he passed on the first one he saw. This is not only putting us dealers in a pickle but infringing on US citizens rights.

How about this one, what if somebody has this ID, lies on the 4473 and CA doesn't catch their immigration status as part of the NICS/Background check and they take it home. WTF can of worms are they opening here.
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Old 02-14-2018, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
When has an ID ever established eligibility to purchase firearms?
This!
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Old 02-14-2018, 5:31 PM
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A government ID should prove legal status in the country, but today it doesn't.
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Old 02-14-2018, 7:33 PM
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Right. So absurd.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:29 PM
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so what are we thinking on this?

Accepting non ab60 federal limits apply IDs? or no go and is there a noticable difference between ab60 ID's and no ab60?
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Old 02-17-2018, 1:34 PM
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The problem is that there used to be two versions of the CA ID/DL due to AB60. The AB60 says that "Federal Limits Apply", which indicated that the person was not here legally. Now with the new requirements ALL of the current licenses switch over to the AB60 version UNLESS you go in with all the required documents and prove yet again you are here legally (I had to show a birth certificate to originally get a license).

So, what do you do when presented with such a license? What is the Federal view of it? What is the CA view of it?

The CA DOJ memo seems to indicate that you can't accept an AB60 ID/DL, but that was before them making this a big mess.
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Old 02-17-2018, 3:46 PM
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I'll be switching to an AZ license later this year.

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Old 02-17-2018, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
When has an ID ever established eligibility to purchase firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
This!
i think once they started stamping "Federal Limits Apply" it was a game changer how any license or ID presented could suffice - at some point CA will catch up with what's been already long established in most states - the state was the one reluctant to get going with the Real ID program, they waited until the last minute - im sure you know why

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The problem is that there used to be two versions of the CA ID/DL due to AB60. The AB60 says that "Federal Limits Apply", which indicated that the person was not here legally. Now with the new requirements ALL of the current licenses switch over to the AB60 version UNLESS you go in with all the required documents and prove yet again you are here legally (I had to show a birth certificate to originally get a license).

So, what do you do when presented with such a license? What is the Federal view of it? What is the CA view of it?

The CA DOJ memo seems to indicate that you can't accept an AB60 ID/DL, but that was before them making this a big mess.
so, real problem is the state sat on their hands while everyone else was implementing the new Real ID program and dealing with its growing pains along the way - now, CA is being forced to catch up, this should've been done in a much more painless manner years ago, but, like i said above, im sure you know why
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Old 02-17-2018, 6:22 PM
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What I'm hoping is just to be out of CA before my license expires. What I was wondering is if you show up for DROS with the federal limits apply license but you also bring your USA passport would you think the vast amount of FFL's would be OK with this?

Unless I missed it somehow is there any difference whatsoever from these licenses and the ones issued to illegals?

Here is food for thought too. There is illegals that have been here long enough that had/have regular licenses issued by CA pre circa 1994 when proof of citizenship or legal status was not asked at DMV. I assume they could easily DROS a gun if willing to lie on a 4473?

Same with people with a license but here on a green card or work permit if willing to lie on a 4473 what if anything prevents them from successfully DROSing a gun if they lie and say they are a citizen instead of going through the extra steps non citizens do to buy a gun legally?
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Old 02-17-2018, 6:54 PM
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Quote:
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What I'm hoping is just to be out of CA before my license expires. What I was wondering is if you show up for DROS with the federal limits apply license but you also bring your USA passport would you think the vast amount of FFL's would be OK with this?

Unless I missed it somehow is there any difference whatsoever from these licenses and the ones issued to illegals?

Here is food for thought too. There is illegals that have been here long enough that had/have regular licenses issued by CA pre circa 1994 when proof of citizenship or legal status was not asked at DMV. I assume they could easily DROS a gun if willing to lie on a 4473?

Same with people with a license but here on a green card or work permit if willing to lie on a 4473 what if anything prevents them from successfully DROSing a gun if they lie and say they are a citizen instead of going through the extra steps non citizens do to buy a gun legally?
from what i understood after i moved to NV and had to get a license, the only difference between the 2 is the documentation you provide - of course, that could have a consequence

providing everything gets you the Real ID, which means you have submitted all the documentation necessary to prove citizenship, while, not providing a birth certificate, or other required documents, gets you the one the reads "Federal Limits Apply" - its not proof of citizenship

i would say its not proof that you aren't a citizen, but it limits your license to proof only that you are eligible to legally drive with that particular license, and, it cannot be used to verify your identity in any other way, especially for federal purposes - some non federal places may accept it, some may not, but im pretty sure anything federally related it will be rejected

i don't even know if banks would accept it to open a account
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Last edited by FalconLair; 02-17-2018 at 6:56 PM..
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Old 02-17-2018, 8:21 PM
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Just another California Clusterf#*%
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Old 02-17-2018, 8:29 PM
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I started taking a tally. So far:

23 - Federal Limits May Apply
1 - Golden Bear
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FalconLair View Post
from what i understood after i moved to NV and had to get a license, the only difference between the 2 is the documentation you provide - of course, that could have a consequence

providing everything gets you the Real ID, which means you have submitted all the documentation necessary to prove citizenship, while, not providing a birth certificate, or other required documents, gets you the one the reads "Federal Limits Apply" - its not proof of citizenship

i would say its not proof that you aren't a citizen, but it limits your license to proof only that you are eligible to legally drive with that particular license, and, it cannot be used to verify your identity in any other way, especially for federal purposes - some non federal places may accept it, some may not, but im pretty sure anything federally related it will be rejected

i don't even know if banks would accept it to open a account
Bank have given accounts to illegals since the early 2000's the almighty dollar rules all.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:56 PM
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Bank have given accounts to illegals since the early 2000's the almighty dollar rules all.
that might be part of the changing tide though - to open an account you still need some form of valid ID and banks are federal

how people here illegally opened accounts before is beyond my knowledge, but, what im trying to say is that they may no longer accept a license or ID if they have "Federal Limits Apply" attached

when i was talking to NV DMV about this, like i said, i didn't have my birth certificate with me, so, for a moment i myself was contemplating just supplying the information to get me a drivers license, even if it had the "Federal Limits Apply" noted - after finding out it was pretty much useless for anything other than driving i decided i best get my birth certificate sent to me and get my Real ID

so many things are connected with having a valid identification, such as a license or ID, and, according to the DMV my restricted license would not suffice for many of those things - i would imagine the same holding true for trying to use that restricted license to open a bank account

and, another point, the "Federal Limits Apply" license is only good in the state issued - out of state local and federal law enforcement agencies are not obligated to accept your license as a form of identication
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:14 AM
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Q: How does REAL ID implementation impact states that provide driver's licenses and IDs to certain non-citizens/undocumented immigrants?
REAL ID allows compliant states to issue driver's licenses and identification cards where the identity of the applicant cannot be assured or for whom lawful presence is not determined. In fact, some states currently issue such noncompliant cards to undocumented individuals. These cards must clearly state on their face (and in the machine readable zone) that it is not acceptable for official purposes and must use a unique design or color to differentiate them from compliant cards. DHS cautions against assuming that possession of a noncompliant card indicates the holder is an undocumented individual, given that several states issue noncompliant licenses for reasons unrelated to lawful presence.
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

Is using the license to purchase a firearm a use for "official business" and do this Federal Limits Apply licenses comply with that FAQ from Homeland Security?
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Old 02-18-2018, 6:11 AM
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I started taking a tally. So far:

23 - Federal Limits May Apply
1 - Golden Bear
CA DMV started issuing the REAL ID compliant CA DL/ID on 01-22-2018.
^Not that many have been issued out, it's been less than 4 weeks.
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