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  #1  
Old 12-28-2011, 7:22 PM
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Default C&R handgun transfer logistics

Probaby a stupid question, but I used my C&R for the first time to buy a couple of CZ-82s from JG sales (awesome store and was fun to drool at all the guns I can't own) because I was passing through the area on my way back from a family get together in Albuquerque. I bought one of them for my father who is also a C&R holder. Want to make sure I get the transfer correct to him.

Here's what I'm thinking I do:

1. Log both CZ-82s in my book.
2. Log one transfer to him immediately.
3. I send in DOJ form for mine
4. He sends DOJ for his.
5. The end

Is this correct? I'm assuming he can't log the CZ-82 directly in his book because I technically had it transferred to me first, correct?
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2011, 7:33 PM
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Yes, you first then his.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2011, 7:43 PM
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On the Federal side, yeah, you log both handguns into your bound book as coming from J&G. Then you log one out to your dad. He logs it into his bound book as coming from you.

On the California side, if you are the one transporting both C&R handguns into California then technically you should send in the C&R handgun report form to CalDOJ for both handguns. Then after you give one to your dad he would send in the intra-family/op-law handgun report form to CalDOJ. If you give one to your dad while you are both still outside of California then you could each send in a C&R handgun report form when you got back to California.
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Old 12-28-2011, 7:47 PM
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Ya, the issue is the (lack of) expediency in the DOJ processing the registration.
Will the OpLaw be processed before the personal importation registration?
If so, then the gun could end up re-registered to the importer.

Easiest if the gun is transferred while still outside of California, that way there's only one DOJ transaction for each gun.
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Old 12-28-2011, 7:58 PM
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Unfortunately I will be in CA when the transfer occurs. Doesn't seem like a big deal to have him send his own form, but I suppose I can just keep both guns for a little while and send the form for both guns myself and transfer it later.
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Old 12-28-2011, 8:12 PM
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He has 5 days after importation to fill out the form OR dispose of said firearm in a legal manor. Giving it to his father is a legal way to dispose of this firearm.
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Old 12-28-2011, 8:19 PM
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Didn't think of that.
Log them in, fill out the paperwork on one, then gift the other and log it out. Properly loggedin, and logged out as a gift, and there's no issues with "dealing".

If it's already been 5 days... register both and gift it in 30 days to give them time to process the reg.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-28-2011, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
He has 5 days after importation to fill out the form OR dispose of said firearm in a legal manor. Giving it to his father is a legal way to dispose of this firearm.
When you move to California with a handgun you have sixty days to either register it or dispose of said firearm in a legal manner.

When a C&R FFL brings a C&R handgun into California that he acquired while outside of California he has five days to register it. There is no option to instead dispose of said firearm in a legal manner or manor first.
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Old 12-29-2011, 4:59 AM
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Thanks for the spelling correction, it was late ans I was tired.

If you legally dispose of it why would you need to register it?
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Old 12-29-2011, 6:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
...If you legally dispose of it why would you need to register it?
Because Penal Code Section 12072(f)(3) says they have to...

Quote:
12072(f)(3) Where a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, acquires a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, outside of this state, takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports that firearm into this state, within five days of that licensed collector transporting that firearm into this state, he or she shall report to the department in a format prescribed by the department his or her acquisition of that firearm.
You are probably thinking of Penal Code Section 12072(f)(2) which is the section on "personal handgun importers" bringing in handguns when they move to California. That section has an exemption to registration if you legally dispose of the handgun within 60 days.
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Old 12-29-2011, 8:34 PM
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Alas Mssr you are correct, but this law is wrong. It is forcing you to register a handgun you may not even plan on keeping.

It should be challenged but I doubt that it will. Our C&R issues seem to go unnoticed by those who can help us.
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Old 12-29-2011, 9:06 PM
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I should emphasize that by doing it the way you originally said you would...

save time
save money
save CalDOJ some work
end up with both handguns registered to the correct person
end up with a less cluttered, easier to trace registration history

It would be a win/win for everybody involved, including CalDOJ. But it would involve technically not following the letter of the law. And you'd always have to worry that your father would one day snitch on you by informing CalDOJ that the transfer didn't really take place outside of California. Of course CalDOJ wouldn't care because both handguns would be registered to the correct owners, but you'd always know in your heart that you didn't follow the letter of the law.
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Old 12-30-2011, 3:41 PM
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Sounds like a good reason to take dad to Vegas for NYE.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when it's not legal to buy a handgun outside of California and gift it to another 03FFL via Intrafamilial within 5 days of coming home without reporting it, but it IS legal to buy a handgun outside of California, bring it home, then on the morning of the 4th day, take ANY 03FFL (intrafamilial or not) for a drive across the state line and gift or sell it.

Sounds like another good one for
Just a simple matter of adding the "or lawfully dispose of" text to the C&R importation statutes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-30-2011, 3:45 PM
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Or would even THAT mot be legal?

The way the statist part of my mind reads the law is that even if I bought a gun in Nevada, then passed through California on the way to Arizona where I sold it the same day, I would still be required to register it?

Odd wording and unconstitutionally vague
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-30-2011, 7:01 PM
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Thanks for the advice guys. I think the DOJ would care most that the guns are properly registered to the correct owner, which is the whole point.

I'll make sure that both guns get the registration handled and leave it at that.
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