Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:36 AM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,794
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default Copper Residue

I shoot a mix of lead core and lead-free rounds in my .30-06 but so far I've only used lead core rounds in my .243 and a pair of .223s. For the smaller caliber rifles, I only use Hoppes #9 under the assumption that I'm only concerned with lead and powder residue in the rifling. Then I found out differently while doing some housekeeping this morning (aka cleaning my rifles).

At one point I ran a patch wetted with Hoppes #9 through the .223, then let it sit for ten minutes in hopes that a little soak time would loosen any carbon packed in the grooves that the brush didn't get. The following clean patch had blue on it, which I wasn't expecting. Then I ran a few wet/clean patch cycles using Sweets and the first few came out blue as well.

Finding copper in the .223 (and subsequently the .243) makes sense since the projectiles I use are clad with copper and some of it is bound to come off as the rifling engraves the bullet. But I'm now wondering how many other rifle shooters use a copper solvent in conjunction with lead core bullets and how often?

Last edited by JackEllis; 01-30-2020 at 3:12 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-30-2020, 12:20 PM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,378
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Short of a tiny bit of lead from the exposed heel of the projectile vaporizing, no lead will end up in the barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-30-2020, 3:09 PM
Preston-CLB's Avatar
Preston-CLB Preston-CLB is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sierra Foothills N of Yosemite
Posts: 715
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It must be French copper residue...

Copper Resideu

I use Hoppes #9 on my .223, and I also shoot jacketed ammo. My patches come out blue, too, but I have not noticed any buildup in the bore.
-P
__________________
“If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-30-2020, 3:15 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,794
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston-CLB View Post
It must be French copper residue...

Copper Resideu

I use Hoppes #9 on my .223, and I also shoot jacketed ammo. My patches come out blue, too, but I have not noticed any buildup in the bore.
-P
No, not French. There seems to be an inverse correlation between my age and the quality of my typing and proofreading.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-30-2020, 3:32 PM
Preston-CLB's Avatar
Preston-CLB Preston-CLB is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sierra Foothills N of Yosemite
Posts: 715
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
No, not French. There seems to be an inverse correlation between my age and the quality of my typing and proofreading.
Jack, I know exactly what you mean. I sometimes have an age induced brain-fingers-eyes disconnect, too.

No worries, I suppose I should have hit the 'sarcasm' key in my post.
-P
__________________
“If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-30-2020, 4:09 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denair, Ca
Posts: 7,992
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

The #9 is a waste. Try some Wipe-Out and it will come clean. I follow that with Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and finally with Butches bore shine. Then you have a CLEAN barrel.

Anyone who thinks differently is just kidding themselves. I have proven that to more than a couple of people. You clean with #9 perfume and when it is "clean" I will take it and show you just how little you actually cleaned it. I have not been proven wrong yet.

The Montana products, shooters choice, tetra-gun cleaners are also better than the #9
__________________
A 30cal will reach out and touch them. A 50cal will kick their butt.
NRA Life Member, NRA certified RSO & Basic Pistol Instructor, Hunter, shooter, reloader
SCI, Manteca Sportsmen Club, Coalinga Rifle Club, Escalon Sportsmans Club & NAHA Member, Madison Society member
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-30-2020, 4:11 PM
Calif Hunter's Avatar
Calif Hunter Calif Hunter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Apple Valley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,692
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

I use Hoppes to get out the powder and carbon fouling, then follow it with a copper remover - no matter if I am shooting copper jacketed lead core bullets or mono-metal copper bullets. The copper removers seem to work better if I get rid of the other fouling first. I use Wipe Out and Patch Out. I have used Sweet's in the past, but like not having the strong ammonia smell and the ability to let it soak longer than prudent with Sweet's.

When I shoot cast lead bullets, I use a little Kroil or other penetrating oil and let that sit for several minutes, then brush the bore well. The lead usually comes out in flakes. Then I use Hoppes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-30-2020, 5:15 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,794
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

No worries, I suppose I should have hit the 'sarcasm' key in my post.
-P[/QUOTE]

No offense taken. One of my pet peeves is reading something that's full of obvious grammatical and spelling errors. Drives me nuts. Another pet peeve is when I make that same mistake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post

Try some Wipe-Out and it will come clean.
I do, just not all the time.

Maybe I'll reverse the order and use WipeOut first, then see if the others pick up anything.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-30-2020, 5:43 PM
deckhandmike's Avatar
deckhandmike deckhandmike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Morro Bay
Posts: 5,901
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I haven’t really seen the dreaded copper build up in my rifles. I think it’s a bit over stated. I got guns I shoot nothing but copper with and the patches aren’t crazy dirty at all.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-30-2020, 6:38 PM
USMCM16A2 USMCM16A2 is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,133
iTrader: 109 / 100%
Default

Sweets 7.62! Great copper buster! Do not leave in he barrel for more than 15 minutes, and pass through at least 4 patches to get the residue out. Then run a patch with CLP through it. A2
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-30-2020, 6:39 PM
200Apples's Avatar
200Apples 200Apples is online now
- DVC - Mojave Lever Crew
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Los Angeles Keyboard Commando Training Center
Posts: 3,375
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
I think it’s a bit over stated.
Perhaps for some folks, it's a bit much, yes... BUT.

If you shoot with the same bore jacketed bullets, and then you want to shoot lead bullets... you're going to need to get ALL the copper "fouling" out of the bore or the bore will become leaded easier than if the bore were pristine.

If you want to shoot, say, Barnes pure copper solids after running a bunch of jacketed bullets, you're first going to need to clean the bore of all the copper-jacket fouling.

Why?

divernhunter was one good soul that showed me the light: jacketed bullets' copper is an alloy, commonly called "gilded metal" whereas the Barnes are pure copper, and the two do not play well in the same bore, THEREFORE, the shooter needs to remove all the copper fouling of one before he shoots the other, ideally.

And if you've ever cleaned your bore, then clean it again, and again and again, because each time you run a brush through it uncovers yet another layer of carbon/copper. It's like a tubular copper/carbon 10-layer, Dagwood Special sammich! in there.

That's right. Oh, and Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets is another good soul that I listen to regarding bore condition and shooting lead bullets.


__________________
.
"[The Left] will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you will not have a gun problem." - Jeff Cooper

."Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - splithoof

.Member NRA and Mojave Lever Crew | Stuck somewhere between Cowboy and Tactical | Bolts, levers, single actions and 1911s | 1A - 2A = -1A

Last edited by 200Apples; 01-30-2020 at 6:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-30-2020, 7:13 PM
pennstater's Avatar
pennstater pennstater is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California Territory
Posts: 2,767
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif Hunter View Post
I use Hoppes to get out the powder and carbon fouling, then follow it with a copper remover - no matter if I am shooting copper jacketed lead core bullets or mono-metal copper bullets. The copper removers seem to work better if I get rid of the other fouling first. I use Wipe Out and Patch Out. I have used Sweet's in the past, but like not having the strong ammonia smell and the ability to let it soak longer than prudent with Sweet's.

When I shoot cast lead bullets, I use a little Kroil or other penetrating oil and let that sit for several minutes, then brush the bore well. The lead usually comes out in flakes. Then I use Hoppes.
This is a good post. I do the same, and since I bought "Wipe Out-Patch Out" solvent at Philipp's, this is the winner. For the most part, what Calif Hunter typed. Works.

MLC
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-30-2020, 8:28 PM
FishnHunt's Avatar
FishnHunt FishnHunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: PDX/PSP
Posts: 939
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I’m Really happy with this
Pro Shot 8-Ounce Copper Solvent IV https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F0M2WS..._FR7mEb8FMGDF8
__________________
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-30-2020, 8:38 PM
Catch's Avatar
Catch Catch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,194
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Sweets definitely smells stronger than #9. For me it produces deep blue patches compared to #9's light blue.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-31-2020, 7:31 AM
divingin divingin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 803
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
I haven’t really seen the dreaded copper build up in my rifles. I think it’s a bit over stated. I got guns I shoot nothing but copper with and the patches aren’t crazy dirty at all.
If you use a solvent that is not particularly aggressive on copper, you won't see it. Most people don't allow enough time for solvents to react with copper (especially solvents that are not great at breaking it down.)

I use Boretech C4 to get the bulk of the carbon and soot out, then use Boretech CU2+ to get the copper. Even a new custom barrel will yield a couple of fairly blue patches, and that's cleaning every 25 rds. My short range 6mm barrel has nearly 3K rounds - that one takes a lot longer to get it showing a minimal amount of copper.

Apples had a comment in his post that's easy to overlook, but has proven itself to me to be true: carbon and copper get deposited in layers if you go a while between cleanings. Switching between copper and carbon solvents a few times may show quite a bit of fouling that you'd miss if you did a single cycle.

To make sure, you really need to borescope the barrel. That opens a whole nuther can of worms, though.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-31-2020, 3:19 PM
Preston-CLB's Avatar
Preston-CLB Preston-CLB is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sierra Foothills N of Yosemite
Posts: 715
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Lots of good info here, guys. Thanks! I spoke with my shooting friend this morning at the range (we had a great time shooting steel and bowling pins) and he too, recommended the BoreTech products.

One thing I like from the descriptions is they are bio-degradable, and odorless. That's a big plus for me.
-P
__________________
“If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-01-2020, 8:50 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 14,417
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Slip 2000 Copper Cleaner also works very well. No smell, non-toxic.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-01-2020, 9:41 AM
Sig so sour of ca Sig so sour of ca is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: South Bay so cal
Posts: 253
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Wipe out and bore tech for me. I let wipe out sit for a few hours then patch. Then I hit it with bour tech. I put a zip lick bag at the muzzle to collect the excess foam and blue gunk. Put a paper towel in the ziplock to see how much blue is coming out just from the foam (no brushing at first).

You can leave bore tech in the barrel which is nice. I'm a huge fan of no ammonia and no toxic smell. Those 2 products make it so I can clean in the house without my wife banishing me to the basement.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:43 AM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,794
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by divingin View Post
Switching between copper and carbon solvents a few times may show quite a bit of fouling that you'd miss if you did a single cycle.
I've found the same thing, so after cleaning for copper I'll make another pass for carbon.

I don't have to worry about odors getting to the rest of our house. I suppose one advantage of Sweets and the other ammonia based solvents is they'll discourage bears from visiting (another story for another time).

Have to try the Boretech stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-01-2020, 7:49 PM
d.f.anonymous's Avatar
d.f.anonymous d.f.anonymous is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: desert
Posts: 114
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I just shoot with a fouled bore and don’t worry about it. The bore already gets enough erosion, I rather not add ammonium to it if there’s no reason, and maintain my barrels copper equilibrium.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-01-2020, 7:57 PM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,562
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

First off, you don’t need to clean to bare steel. Copper equilibrium is not a bad thing....
When I want to over clean match guns or clean while breaking in a barrel, I use Kroil and JB bore mud.

Run dry patches
Run Kroil on new patch 10-20 times
Dry patch until Kroil is gone

Run JB bore paste on patches 10-20 times.

Run dry patches until clean

Repeat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pFNccaNVOA
__________________

“You found that offensive? I found that funny. That’s why I’m happier than you.”


“Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.”
— Neil deGrasse Tyson
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-27-2020, 4:20 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NorCal Mountains
Posts: 1,794
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
I follow that with Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and finally with Butches bore shine.
I just tried Butch's Bore Shine and it is vile stuff. Far worse than the ammonia in Sweets. Next time warn me, will ya

Boretech CU 2 seems to work about as well as Sweets and without the bear-chasing smell.

I'm cleaning a .243 that probably has 200 rounds through it and there's a lot more copper than I would have imagined.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-27-2020, 4:29 PM
brian.243's Avatar
brian.243 brian.243 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The High Desert
Posts: 365
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I have had very good results with the foaming bore cleaner
Not sure exactly what brand I have
If I have a bad bore I use some jb non embedding bore paste and that does wonders
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-28-2020, 6:14 AM
elk hunter elk hunter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,779
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif Hunter View Post
I use Hoppes to get out the powder and carbon fouling, then follow it with a copper remover - no matter if I am shooting copper jacketed lead core bullets or mono-metal copper bullets. The copper removers seem to work better if I get rid of the other fouling first. I use Wipe Out and Patch Out. I have used Sweet's in the past, but like not having the strong ammonia smell and the ability to let it soak longer than prudent with Sweet's.

When I shoot cast lead bullets, I use a little Kroil or other penetrating oil and let that sit for several minutes, then brush the bore well. The lead usually comes out in flakes. Then I use Hoppes.
That has been my experience to, first a clean with Hoppies then do the copper removal no matter which kind you use.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-28-2020, 6:20 AM
theLBC's Avatar
theLBC theLBC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: the lbc
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

some copper "seasoning" might not hurt.
typically the amount of copper is going to stabilize...but if there is too much, groups might start to spread and that is when i will use copper solvent.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-28-2020, 7:12 AM
divingin divingin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 803
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
But I'm now wondering how many other rifle shooters use a copper solvent in conjunction with lead core bullets and how often?
For my bolt guns (normal match bullets), 2 to several patches with C4 Carbon Remover, an optional brushing with C4 (either a nylon brush, or bronze if I suspect stubborn carbon) followed by as many patches with CU2+ as it takes to get a light enough color blue for me to feel I'm done (sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes a lot more.)

If you want to see how your cleaning is working, fins someone with a borescope and take a peek. You might be surprised (or horrified. Be careful, as knowing what your bore looks like can be a slippery slope...)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-26-2020, 5:23 AM
NYY's Avatar
NYY NYY is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,761
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Bryce M. Towsley- “Lately I am hearing “experts” claim that a rifle has to be dirty and fouled to shoot accurately. The prevailing theory is that the copper smears fill in the imperfections in the bore and make it more like a hand-lapped barrel. That is wrong on so many levels. I have tested hundreds-perhaps even thousands of rifles over my 40 year career as a gun-writer and have shot countless groups with those rifles. There is one simple truth I have learned: clean barrels shoot much better than fouled barrels.”
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-26-2020, 7:51 AM
divingin divingin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 803
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by divingin View Post
I use Boretech C4 to get the bulk of the carbon and soot out, then use Boretech CU2+ to get the copper.
This is an update to my earlier statement.

I recently tried KG-12 to compare it to Boretech CU2+.

My initial test was rather disappointing. A copper colored wash towards the muzzle seemingly wasn't affected by the KG-12 (though to be fair, it was left in there by the CU2+, so go figure.)

My second test was on a somewhat firecracked but still accurate barrel for my benchrest rifle. This was after my normal cleaning routine: BT carbon remover until most of the black was out, then CU2+ until it came out a pale blue, and I got tired of repeating. Borescope showed pretty heavy copper in the firecracking, but the whole of the bore was clean. I ran the KG-12 according to directions, swabbed once with BT carbon cleaner to get the KG-12 out, then dry patched. Borescope showed the copper in the firecracking was gone.

What I found interesting is that the blue patches that indicate the presence of copper with most solvents (Sweets, BT CU2+, etc) doesn't happen with KG-12. The patches come out brownish. But it did seem to work pretty well in the second test.

Ran into range closures due to Covid-19, so further testing isn't possible until the local and state quarantines are over. I did shoot the barrel I used in the last test, and haven't gotten around to checking the condition, so I may be able to use that for a retest, assuming it's coppered to some degree, and I get time to scope and clean it.

Will update when I get some kind of results.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:49 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 47,923
iTrader: 103 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYY View Post
Bryce M. Towsley- “Lately I am hearing “experts” claim that a rifle has to be dirty and fouled to shoot accurately. The prevailing theory is that the copper smears fill in the imperfections in the bore and make it more like a hand-lapped barrel. That is wrong on so many levels. I have tested hundreds-perhaps even thousands of rifles over my 40 year career as a gun-writer and have shot countless groups with those rifles. There is one simple truth I have learned: clean barrels shoot much better than fouled barrels.”
Fouled barrels shoot better coldbore shots.
That's why many match shooters leave them dirty.
If you don't care that your first few shots of the day go high, then clean barrels are fine.

The real trick for good coldbore shots is not to take them.
When I was competing a lot, I would stop on the way to a match and fire a couple shots so my rifle's barrel was not a day/week aged since the last shot fired.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-26-2020, 1:26 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Socialist Republic of SoCal
Posts: 6,702
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
[1].... Fouled barrels shoot better coldbore shots.
That's why many match shooters leave them dirty.
If you don't care that your first few shots of the day go high, then clean barrels are fine.

[2].... The real trick for good coldbore shots is not to take them.

When I was competing a lot, I would stop on the way to a match and fire a couple shots so my rifle's barrel was not a day/week aged since the last shot fired.
As to the bolded. [1].... Has also been my experience. That's why when I do preseason sight ins. I don't scrub the bore until end of season.

[2].... I've never been a competitor. I'm a hunter. So [2] is not an option for me. I only shoot, cold bore, even when sighting in. I want every assurance that my FIRST SHOT, is going exactly where I want it to.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:31 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2020, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.
Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Tactical Gear Military Boots 5.11 Tactical