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  #1  
Old 02-18-2018, 6:44 AM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
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Default Does truth exist?

Does the current climate in the United States, lead our youth to atheism? What makes Christianity true? The youth today ask hard questions, and I feel we need to be prepared to give answers. They may be hard questions, but they are good questions. Does having faith in your Bible make it true? If so then the Koran is true also, because Islam has faith in it, right? And contemporary belief, there is no real truth. Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men. How do we answer these questions?

I really hope this becomes a good discussion. I will state I am Christian. I disagree with Islam, for reasons. Now for the sake of friendly discussion, if you have a practice, or religion you don't agree with, then I ask you give evidence for that disagreement. I have Christian friends that tell me they hate Islam. I ask why, and their answer normally is because don't believe in it. Again why? I just don't. Then why Christianity and not Islam? They remain silent, have no answer. I'm not looking for debate between, Islam and Christianity, or Methodist and Catholic or JW. I'm looking for the defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist.

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  #2  
Old 02-18-2018, 7:29 AM
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In short - faith is belief without definitive proof, that is why it is called faith.
It isn't limited to religion. Black holes, global warming, gender vs biology, on and on. It all requires faith.

We can't explain so much in the bible, there are arguments on both sides, such as creation. My faith tells me that one day it will all make sense.

Regarding the young people- they will figure it out given a balanced approach (and I don't say that lightly given modern media), but they desperately need good role models.
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Old 02-18-2018, 7:31 AM
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Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
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Old 02-18-2018, 7:35 AM
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Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
And something tells me they by and large don't have much of a choice about it.
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Old 02-18-2018, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Toast View Post
Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
By birth. Christianity is growing faster by conversion. The reason Christianity is ineffectual at converting people in this country is because Christians conform to this culture rather than being Christians.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:51 AM
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Default Then why Christianity and not Islam?

OP, your post has several questions in it. of them, I think this is most easily answered.

basically, Timeline and Logic.

Hundreds of years before Jesus of Nazareth there were Scriptural prophecies predicting the Messiah. which Jesus fulfilled, showing Him to be the Christ and the bearer of a new Covenant. as a Christian, you believe this.

within 350 years this modification of Judaism had become the official state religion of the known world, saving millions of souls from the clutches of Satan. certainly, Satan worked against the success of Christianity from the beginning, afraid of just that result.

So the Great Trickster, the Master of Deceit convinces Mohammed to become his prophet, spreading Satan's false word.

to summarize-

Mohammed was a false prophet.

Allah is Satan.

Islam is his response to the Life giving Covenant brought by Jesus Christ.
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Old 02-21-2018, 5:40 AM
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I believe we have to have faith in the things we're not sure of, but trust because it's biblical. But i also feel Christianity has a great foundation to stand on. Such as the prophecies telling us so much about the coming Messiah. But faith alone doesn't cut it when defending your beliefs, and faith alone is not all we have.

If faith makes the Bible true, then the same test can be applied to the Quran. Faith is not always blind. If the dodgers came to town to play your high school baseball team, you would have faith in the dodgers winning. And that faith would be based on knowledge and not purely blind faith.

Notice the difference between Christ, and Mohamad. Every major spiritual event with Mohamed was in a cave alone, or somewhere with no witnesses. Jesus had witnesses. Birth, life, transformation, death on the cross, empty tomb.
Even Roman records record the death of Jesus. The records of many non believers verified the events. Josephus, the Jewish historian of the day, was not Christian but wrote about it. We don't have 1 person telling a story, we have lots of people telling their part. We have fulfilled prophecy, not only fulfilled, but down to the minor details.

I talked to a Jewish man once. Real, real nice person. I asked him about Christianity. He said he knows a lot about it, but they don't read the new testament. I said, yea I know. I then took him on a small trip through the old testament. I told him, there is nothing in the new, that wasn't in the old. The old testament is the new testament concealed, and the new testament is the old testament revealed. He was suprised, because he never related the prophecies to the life of Jesus. We have archeology confirming the Bible. The current state of Israel becoming a nation in a day, was prophecy fulfilled. We have much more than just our faith, we have good reason for our faith.

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Old 02-21-2018, 5:47 AM
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I guess what i was looking for here, was arguments for Christianity to a non believer. Are youth say, there is no real truth. Really? So if I don't believe in gravity, do I float away? There is truth, and truth stands whether you believe it or not. But, a God you never saw? Do you see gravity, or the evidence of gravity. But science says this, no science says nothing, scientist say that, they interpret what they see.

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  #9  
Old 02-21-2018, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kteas1 View Post
Does the current climate in the United States, lead our youth to atheism?
Yes. Entertainment is the central focus of most people, especially the youth. Smart phones, tv, laptops, etc are all geared toward diversion in a way that keeps people’s attention; diverts them from the reality they live. So much so that art that once imitated life, has become lives that solely imitate the art. And rarely, very rarely, does the content deal with spiritual matters.

Quote:
What makes Christianity true?
The search for truth must begin with an honest desire for actual truth. Many people search to confirm their pre-established ideals, or to feed a certain desire or need. Truth only comes to those who actually seek it. You must want truth, even if it is hard to accept. Christianity is true because it holds up to every criticism, every doubt, and every argument. In the end, it still requires an acceptance of the unknown, but it would be useless otherwise.

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The youth today ask hard questions, and I feel we need to be prepared to give answers. They may be hard questions, but they are good questions. Does having faith in your Bible make it true?
No, having faith in the Bible does not make it true.

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If so then the Koran is true also, because Islam has faith in it, right? And contemporary belief, there is no real truth.
Belief because it is contemporary does not make something true. Truth is not relative. Something is, or it is not. That is self-evident, despite peoples wishes to the contrary.

Quote:
Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men. How do we answer these questions?
The Bible IS (or at least half) many stories written by men (some old, some not). However, these stories amazingly all connect in a way the authors could have never imagined. They all agree in ways the authors never had dreamed of. It is written by so many different people, all about the same thing, from places far and wide, and all connect in a way that is impossible without some kind of outside influence. It is a miracle that it exists at all, much less preserved almost perfectly to this day.


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I really hope this becomes a good discussion. I will state I am Christian. I disagree with Islam, for reasons. Now for the sake of friendly discussion, if you have a practice, or religion you don't agree with, then I ask you give evidence for that disagreement.
I disagree with any religion that does not adhere to the teachings of the New Testament. I am not saying that no one has the right to these practices. I am not saying that I hate any of these people. However, I believe there is one truth and anything that deviates from that truth is incorrect. Worse is that those incorrect practices attract people and lead them astray. The evidence for these disagreements is vast, and would have to be addressed case by case. However, my source for truth will be the Bible, if that is helpful in understanding my opposition.

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I have Christian friends that tell me they hate Islam. I ask why, and their answer normally is because don't believe in it. Again why? I just don't. Then why Christianity and not Islam? They remain silent, have no answer. I'm not looking for debate between, Islam and Christianity, or Methodist and Catholic or JW. I'm looking for the defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist.
Islam teaches a different religion than that of the Bible. A person who believes in one cannot then, logically, believe in the other. It is really that simple. For a defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist, there is no answer. A person who does not believe the Bible is the word of God will not be convinced by evidence that is from the Bible itself. A person might see the significance of the Bible, but may not be convinced that it is from God. An atheist does not believe that God exists, so the word will not convince them. The best you can do is explain why you believe, and leave it at that. Are you able to articulate why you believe?
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Old 02-21-2018, 3:30 PM
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god is as real as love.

you cannot see love. you can't touch it or smell it.
but it does exist.

proof that it's real is given with each act of love, just as proof that god exists is given with every act of faith.
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Old 02-24-2018, 9:22 PM
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to the OP
Absolutely truth exists, and His truths are absolute
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Old 02-25-2018, 7:59 AM
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Just for the record. Some great comments here. I believe Christianity is the only truth. The more I questioned, the more its truth became self evident.

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Old 02-25-2018, 5:09 PM
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Go to the first chapter of the gosple of John, read all the way to the verse that reads " and we beheld His glory, full of Grace AND Truth." Grace is A person, and Truth is A person, Jesus the Christ. Where Jesus is preached, explained, set forth etc, TRUTH is brought directly to men and women. If it pleases you to reject this, help yourself, at the risk of walking away from the truth many seek for. Peace Bros

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Old 02-26-2018, 2:22 PM
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If you want to understand religion and different religious views, talk to people of other religions. A lot. Talking to other people of your same culture and same religion will only get you so far.

I've experienced the hospitality of devout Muslims who were the kindest people you'll ever know. I met an elderly Christian man who lived on the Mount of Olives who refused to attend church because all the churches he went to (and that's a lot in Jerusalem) failed to practice service to others, which he felt was the core message of Jesus. I chatted at length with Jesuit seminarians who have to get their Bachelor's degree in Philosophy before the church would even let them begin studying the Bible (they needed to learn how to think before being given the words of God, as they explained it). I once chatted with a Roman Catholic monk who studied at Buddhist monasteries to learn their meditation practices and welcomed Buddhist monks into his monastery for the same reasons. I have a lot of respect for Rabbis who, in my experience, are very pragmatic in their advice. And whenever I'm out hunting, I feel that there is more truth in the religion of many Native Americans than most European Americans will ever know.

If you're looking for truths, in the general sense, then religion is a good path to find them. You'll pick up many truths along the way, no matter what path you choose. But if you want to find ONE single set of truths which are universally applicable, then I think you're overreaching what we can understand or even what religion can truly provide. Borrowing from Genesis, the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is evil (my religion vs your religion, for example) is not for us to eat or even taste. On the contrary, spitting out the fruit of that tree is the first step to accepting our place on this earth.
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Old 02-26-2018, 4:00 PM
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The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.
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Old 03-02-2018, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.
I agree. I do believe the Bible to be the ultimate truth. A lot of prophecy proves this. Faith? Yes you have to accept the living God with faith. God is like gravity. I can't see gravity, but I see the effects of gravity, so I have faith in gravity existing. I believe gravity is true, as God is true. Jesus fulfilled to many prophecies, he had to be the messiah. As far as wars over it? Yes, religulous disagreements have led to wars, but for me? The Bible says share with non believes, not kill them. I slam the door on nobody, JW, Mormon, Islam. I'll talk, debate, discuss, but I refuse to argue, get angry, or hate. I want then to walk away either changed, or at least thinking, I didn't agree with him, but he did treat me nice.

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Old 04-12-2018, 4:44 PM
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A lot of the Christian responses are correct.

Jesus, who has been proven over and over again to have truly lived, has by His very life fulfilled over 800 or so prophecies concerning the coming , life and death and resurrection of the Messiah.

Is life even caused dissent among the Pharisees and sadducees. There is irrefutable evidence of his life and death and resurrection in historical records of His time.

The root meaning of Faith means allowing oneself to be moved by evidence. And As Christians we have the history and the tradition that led to the compilation of our scripture and the world community of Christianity today.

Only ONE MAN EVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND PROVED IT IN HIS RESURRECTION, AND IT WAS JESUS CHRIST. The Romans centurions knew that Christ was a big deal and couldn’t afford to let anyone steal His body yet it was nowhere to be found. Men’s testaments were more valuable that women’s, yet it was women who discovered and proclaimed the tomb empty, and people finally believed when they saw him again. Healed and glorified with his nail and spear wounds.

The Christians of old who at first denied Jesus out of fear, including St Peter, were now empowered to die martyrs because the knew the Truth that God was among us because of His infinite Love.

There’s an excellent movie that just came out about a Pulitzer Prize winning former atheist turned Christian ....darn I forgot the title....

I know for a fact that the world Church of Satan, has several agendas:
Promote Atheism
(they don’t care if you believe in the devil just as long as you don’t believe in God),
Promote new age spirituality (its better if people get caught up with spiritualism because what you don’t know CAN hurt you)
Destroy the Catholic Church and orthodoxy it’s the mother of Christian relifgions since even the 40k denominations of Christianity has its roots in the Church and through black mass, black sacraments, and human sacrifice mock the church and the life of Christ.
Destroy baptist churches, they are well known for having very strong faith
Use commercial means of abortion planned parenthood and other means as a source of mass satanic human sacrifice ( they actually do work with PP in terms of offerings - so I hear)

The globalists in this world are increasingly satanic in their beliefs and the deeep state he’ll bent on war, killing, etc. of you know anything about bohemian grove, then you know war is an important component to satanic human sacrifice.

The world powers are constantly trying to remove God and this Truth, and thus objective truths from the secular world. When that happens, moral relativism prevails and what’s true is now a matter of consensus and whatever the government or the media tells you is true or false.

We can see that the incumbent powers that be, who act increasingly luciferian, are trying to stomp out Christianity of all things...why? Because it’s True. Christianity actually doesn’t clash with science, unless false scientific evidence is pushed, or if there’s a disconnect with non religious folks misunderstanding that religion isn’t meant to teach science, but it is an account of Gods relationship to Us His people.

Look for the Truth and who is trying to destroy it and who is trying to push it, and the Truth and it’s enemies or proponents come out either way. In Christianity is the Truth.

God bless Trump for keeping God in the White House! And God Bless the First Lady Melania for having the courage to pray the Lords Prayer in a public forum as a representative of the leaders of the United States.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:12 AM
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^Keeping God in the White House? We Christians lose a lot of credibility when we equate republicanism with Christianity.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:03 AM
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I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.
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Old 04-13-2018, 5:31 PM
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Does truth exist? No! That is a true statement.
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Old 04-13-2018, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHOD View Post
I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.
Christians dont have faith in teachings, they have faith works, works accomplished by another on their behalf. If Jesus did not rise from the dead His teachings are meaningless.

Either God is Holy or God is not Holy. All sin is a sin against God. A Holy God can have no fellowship with sinful man. The fundamental question you must ask yourself, is what do you with your sin? How do you propitiate the wrath of Holy God?
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Old 04-14-2018, 7:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
^Keeping God in the White House? We Christians lose a lot of credibility when we equate republicanism with Christianity.
Not to say that republicans equal being Christian, but the country was founded upon Christian principles. For Trump to invoke Gods name and prayer, and to have bible study available to people in the White House, is unprecedented, and speaks highly in this time of human secularism and anti Christian climate.

The base principle of Christianity is love ....actually Love with a capital L as God is Love. The world would be a better place to aspire to Truth, the ideal, and that is ultimately what God does for us when He provides the Truth. Gives us something to aspire to for the good of Us, His children since He is the Father.

Secular humanism, tries to remove that truth of God, the objective Truth, and leave in its an place objective morality based on consensus.

I don’t see anything wrong with Christianity influencing the world, just the negative views people who do not understand Christianity have. If God is God, and he gave us His Son who is the Word of God made flesh (not to be confused with the lower case (w)ord of God, The Bible), then Christ teaches how we are to repent -to His way if we are to become what we are meant to be and do what we are meant to do as His children. Father knows best especially when he is Our Father.

Just my opinion, of course.

When I say that I am a Catholic, when I say that I am a Christian, when I say that I am religious, when I say that I don’t drink, when I say that I love people whom I dislike because I am required to by God, and when I say I believe in a God,
I lose credibility with people who consider themselves more educated that me, more practical or grounded in reality
...little do they realize that the Church established the scientific method, established the earliest University systems in Cambridge and Oxford perhaps gave these same people the basis of most of their scientific, or philosophical education.....
But losing credibility with people who have no concept of my Faith shouldn’t stop me from living my Faith. Christianity is a world view and it should be effective and difficult to live if we are doing it right. There’s nothing easy about being a follower of Christ, in this society, in this secular world except having peace of mind and heart because we have Faith, Hope and Love despite the difficulty, opposition, ostracization, suffering from violence and abuse, or perhaps even threat of death we face with anti-Christians anti—Christs, if you will.

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Old 04-22-2018, 7:28 PM
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Truth: That which comports with reality.
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Old 07-25-2018, 2:21 AM
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I think that there is truth, but everyone has their own truth.
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Old 07-25-2018, 2:45 AM
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Jusus in a conversation with Pontius Pilot...

"What is truth?"
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Old 07-25-2018, 5:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHOD View Post
I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.

Interesting. I would say that most of the noble truths require no faith. To live is to suffer requires no faith. It seems nearly, but is not, self-evident.


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Old 07-25-2018, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.


Blue things are colored things - true, but not empirical claim. It is true A Priori.

Faith rests on one believing that a certain claim is true (e.g., Jesus is God).

One can believe that their religious views are absolutely true, but not engage in hostile acts with other faiths.

Conflict as a result of what one believes to be true is not logically entailed by it being so. Thus, the potential for conflict is a non-sequitur.


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Old 07-25-2018, 6:23 AM
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I don't know if this will help you, but when I get a chance to speak to a young person actually any person, we as people like to have physical proof for even doubting Thomas said he would not believe until he seen Christ himself.

So I show them things of this world the technology even reference movies about end time prophesy and then show them the bible how it spoke of these things way before they exisisted and that really gets them thinking.

I don't attack their way of living but but show them how I walked in sin and God changed me our story our testimony is the best thing we can share for we are that physical proof.
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Old 07-27-2018, 6:53 AM
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If anyone says, "Truth does not exist" then simply ask them, "How do you know that is true?" That should shut them up.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying and I'm also concerned about Islam, and about our world's increasingly post-modern worldviews, especially when it comes to truth, and especially truths about morality.

How do we combat this overdose on post-modern woo? Well I have two approaches I can add. One is that we familiarize people with the origin story. That is to say, we should attack the problem at its source.

The idea that truth is not real is a very dangerous idea and it came to our country first probably through cultural Marxism of the Frankfort School, via the English department at Yale when they came over from Germany. There are some other sources but that might've been the beginning. Modernist and post-modernist worldviews are all problematic in this regard. Hard stances on materialism lead to radical empiricism and misunderstandings of what faith and reason are and how they work.

When people trace the lineage of these ideas back to cultural Marxism, structuralism, post-structuralism, critical theory, the radical application of the Hegellian dialectic, et al., if they're an even remotely decent person with any proclivity for thought, at least a few of them are going to see this stuff for what it is. They're probably going to feel revolted and betrayed. I know I did when I began to reevaluate these things in my life. But I'm not suggesting we should rely on emotional response but to familiarize them with the arguments against these schools of thought. I don't think it should be especially difficult, I think people are just woefully ignorant on these subjects and don't understand how they've been influenced by these ideas whether they recognize the names of them or not.

The other way we deal with this is to focus on the value of objectivity and especially the subject of morality.

The attack has been on objectivity generally, but especially objective truth, and of these truths there is perhaps no more important a truth when it comes to the well-being of a society than that of objective morality. For me, I used to be an atheist and I was dissatisfied with the religious idea of objective morality and wished rather to pursue objective morality without God. Most people, though, do not seem to be interested in objective morality, they are willing to settle for a subjective morality. I may have relented a few times over the years on the question but for the most part I argued that morality was objective and had to be. However I could find no universal morality without God.

This is the distinction that led me back and I'm happy to say that this year I was finally baptized and was also confirmed Catholic. A militant anti-religious atheist can reason their way to God a lot easier if they believe in the necessity of objectivity. Chances are people like this claim to care about objectivity when it comes to observation of the natural world and consider themselves champions of science and human progress, but their care for objectivity stops at morality and truth-- radical empiricism ensues: we can only believe everything two people can see and count, and send off to a third person to verify. Only that is Truth™ and everything else is subjective, cultural, societal, structural, a matter of perspective.

Now of course for some remnant, they don't even see just everything else as subjective but everything as subjective. Or maybe they're really crazy and they don't even believe in things. Maybe they're solipsistic. But these are all completely facile and puerile arguments and ideas that can be defeated pretty easily and for that I'd refer you back to the first sentence I wrote at the beginning of this post.

Anyways, thanks for your post and the opportunity to think about what you've written and to respond. God bless.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:25 AM
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Objective vs subjective... Does it really matter? How about we simply consider the consequences of our actions? This is one of those areas where philosophy gets too lost in the clouds. Gotta stay grounded!

Maybe morality is relative. Maybe there's no objective truth behind the idea of adultery. Seems that's how our ancestors lived -- free love in the stone age! But try sleeping around on your wife and see what happens. Sh** get's real pretty fast. Practically speaking, it's pretty clear cut what kind of behaviors will get you in the dog house & cause you to lose half your net worth. Relative, schmelative. Follow the tradition or deal with the consequences.

Maybe some truths are absolute. Maybe Jesus really was the divine and only Son of God. But he was quite the confusing character -- preaching love and peace one day and treason the next. Even on the cross, he doubted his own mission, asking God "Why have you forsaken me?" If he didn't know for sure, how can I? Frankly, he didn't even fit the role of a Jewish Messiah very well -- King Darius of Persia did a better job at that and he wasn't even Jewish. So much of Christianity has nothing to do with the real Jesus anyway. And as crazy as other religions sound to us, Christianity sounds batsh** crazy to people who believe differently. As an animist, Christianity is problematic on so many levels it's hard to even start talking about. But, seriously, it doesn't really matter what the objective truth of the divine is. What matters is the behaviors, ethics and lifestyle you espouse as a result of those beliefs. In that way, most atheists, saints, agnostics, protestants, catholics, muslims, jews, buddhists, animists, "wtf-ists" and all even politicians have the same basic core beliefs (okay, maybe not the politicians). In other words, some things might be objective but simply don't matter to most people (like the god they worship). Other things are objective and clearly matter and you'd be an idiot to think otherwise (does anybody really question if a gun is lethal in an objective sense)?
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