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  #1  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:26 AM
oldyeller oldyeller is offline
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Default Lead ban question

For you guys in the condor range, are you allowed to target practice and plink with lead bullets if you are not hunting? I am a little worried about this going statewide.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by oldyeller View Post
For you guys in the condor range, are you allowed to target practice and plink with lead bullets if you are not hunting? I am a little worried about this going statewide.
Yes! You just can't use ground squirrels or gut piles as targets.
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2009, 12:51 PM
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if your worried now just look at the prices of copper based ammo. and its going up. It sucks here in monterey county. The reason the condor is almost extinct is because its a relatively stupid animal. My friend was working on a remodel down big sur coast and watched a condor eat some large steel bolts. he had been noticing the bolts scattered around the job site every morning and couldent figure out what was going on till he saw it. Its gonna go state wide thats for sure. I bet condor tastes like crap anyhow.
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Old 02-14-2009, 1:13 PM
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That condor just had an iron deficeincy.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2009, 3:07 PM
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The ban will be statewide soon. DFG is scared crapless over being sued by CFBD and other anti groups.

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say the whole US will be lead free in 5-10 years. MO already has their Conservation Areas as lead free and more and more states are joining in the lead bans.

The pisser is the ammo companies never anticipated the ban rolling over the country this fast and got caught asleep at the switch. Still no non lead .17 ammo out.
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2009, 4:35 PM
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It is a good thing that I have so much of that great Wolf steel ammo.

Jerry
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2009, 5:41 PM
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Don't be a fool! ALL WOLF AMMO CONTAINS LEAD!
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Old 02-14-2009, 6:14 PM
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Received this from Turner's....You should send a email to the addresses below to voice your opposition.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Turners Huntads
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Subject: Possible State-Wide Lead Ammo Ban


CALIFORNIA REGULATORY ALERT
This information is accurate at the time this CAL-ERT was written and originally distributed. The NRA Members' Councils of California will keep you informed as issues affect your gun-rights in California.
STATE-WIDE BAN ON LEAD AMMUNITION MAY BE AROUND THE CORNER
The Fish and Game Commission is considering a state-wide ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting. Almost two years ago, a bill (AB821) was signed into law that imposed a ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting in areas occupied by the California condor. Through its hunting regulations, the Commission extended the ban to include .22 rimfire ammunition and expanded the boundaries where the ban applies. With this track record, the Commission is likely to be receptive to carrying the ban to the borders of the state.
From the beginning, proponents of the current ban have wanted to lead ammunition banned state-wide. The California condor was simply being used as an excuse by the anti-hunters and anti-gunners to carry out this agenda. They have already achieved a partial ban. The next step is to take it state-wide. If they are successful, they will push to ban the use of lead ammunition for everyone, not just hunters.
There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is the source of lead affecting the health of condors released to the wild. There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is a risk to human health and the environment in California. What is evident is that there are a group of special interests that have friends on the Commission who will not stop until the most affordable, available, and balistically superior ammunition available is banned in our state. When that happens they know the damage it will do to hunting and shooting participation.

ACTION REQUESTED:
Please write and call the California Fish and Game Commission and request that they oppose all efforts to extend the ban on lead ammunition.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Although the NRA vigorously opposed AB821 back in 2007, it is now law. However, it is unfortunate that the CA. Fish & Game Commission expanded the restrictions much farther than those required by AB821. Therefore, the NRA urges you to contact the CA. Fish & Game Commission and voice your opposition to even more enhanced restrictions that exceed the scope and intent of AB821.

CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE CA. FISH & GAME COMMISSION:
Mailing Address:
California Fish and Game Commission
1416 Ninth Street
P.O. Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090

Phone Number:
(916) 653-4899

Fax Number:
(916) 653-5040

E-Mail: (Please include "State-wide Lead Ammo Ban" in the e-mail subject line.)
Submit written comments, via electronic mail to:

John Carlson, Jr., Executive Director fgc@fgc.ca.gov
Jon K. Fischer, Deputy Executive Director - Regulations and Policy jfischer@fgc.ca.gov
Adrianna Shea, Deputy Executive Director - Special Advisor to the Commissioners ashea@fgc.ca.gov

Note: If you prefer to send only one email, you can send a single email to the Fish and Game representatives by using the special "ONE CLICK" email address that you can find HERE . By sending one email to the special "ONE CLICK" address, each one of the Fish and Game representatives (listed above) will receive a copy of your message (so it is probably a good idea to address your messages with: Dear Fish & Game Commission,).

WHAT ELSE YOU CAN DO:
If you are not already a member of your local NRA Members' Council, JOIN NOW! It costs you nothing but a little of your time - volunteering to help the NRA regain our Second Amendment rights in California.
If you received this CALIFORNIA-ALERT SYSTEM (CAL-ERTs) message from sources other than your own personal subscription, we encourage you to subscribe to this free service. We won't send you messages very often, but when we do, something important is happening.
Circulate this alert to every firearms owner, shooter, hunter, club, and freedom-loving American that you know and ask them to help.
Be proud of your accomplishments and be especially proud that YOU are willing to fight for all of our rights to enjoy our Second Amendment freedoms!

Continue to monitor the latest legislative updates at: http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/legs.shtml

A printable version of this CAL-ERT can be found at: http://www.calnra.com/calerts/pdf/calert020509.pdf

Archived CAL-ERTs can be found at:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/ca...es/index.shtml

NRA Members' Councils of California http://NRAMembersCouncils.com
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2009, 12:32 AM
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Where can I see a map of this "condor area"?
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2009, 10:17 AM
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Map of condor area:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunti...rvationAct.pdf
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2009, 11:34 AM
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Thanks.

Looking at the map, it's even more obvious that this lead ammo ban justified by these condors being in danger (LMAO) it's plain BS.
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Old friends become old strangers between darkness and the dawn..."

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- The Patriot -
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2009, 9:10 AM
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This IS NOT about the condor or saving us poor humans from lead. It's a gun ban only this time they are going after the ammo. What the antis couldn't get down through the front door they will do through the back door.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2009, 3:20 PM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
This IS NOT about the condor or saving us poor humans from lead. It's a gun ban only this time they are going after the ammo. What the antis couldn't get down through the front door they will do through the back door.
Exactly what he said.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2009, 8:54 PM
tube_ee tube_ee is offline
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Default What makes you think that

the ammo companies were caught napping by this?

It's far, far more likely that they are quietly pushing it. Compare the price of lead and non-lead ammo, and you'll see all the motivation you'll ever need.

Just because these companies make stuff we like does not make them our friends. There are no such things as "principles" in business.

--SHannon
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2009, 9:12 AM
scr83jp scr83jp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scratch View Post
Received this from Turner's....You should send a email to the addresses below to voice your opposition.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Turners Huntads
Date: Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Subject: Possible State-Wide Lead Ammo Ban


CALIFORNIA REGULATORY ALERT
This information is accurate at the time this CAL-ERT was written and originally distributed. The NRA Members' Councils of California will keep you informed as issues affect your gun-rights in California.
STATE-WIDE BAN ON LEAD AMMUNITION MAY BE AROUND THE CORNER
The Fish and Game Commission is considering a state-wide ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting. Almost two years ago, a bill (AB821) was signed into law that imposed a ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting in areas occupied by the California condor. Through its hunting regulations, the Commission extended the ban to include .22 rimfire ammunition and expanded the boundaries where the ban applies. With this track record, the Commission is likely to be receptive to carrying the ban to the borders of the state.
From the beginning, proponents of the current ban have wanted to lead ammunition banned state-wide. The California condor was simply being used as an excuse by the anti-hunters and anti-gunners to carry out this agenda. They have already achieved a partial ban. The next step is to take it state-wide. If they are successful, they will push to ban the use of lead ammunition for everyone, not just hunters.
There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is the source of lead affecting the health of condors released to the wild. There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is a risk to human health and the environment in California. What is evident is that there are a group of special interests that have friends on the Commission who will not stop until the most affordable, available, and balistically superior ammunition available is banned in our state. When that happens they know the damage it will do to hunting and shooting participation.

ACTION REQUESTED:
Please write and call the California Fish and Game Commission and request that they oppose all efforts to extend the ban on lead ammunition.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Although the NRA vigorously opposed AB821 back in 2007, it is now law. However, it is unfortunate that the CA. Fish & Game Commission expanded the restrictions much farther than those required by AB821. Therefore, the NRA urges you to contact the CA. Fish & Game Commission and voice your opposition to even more enhanced restrictions that exceed the scope and intent of AB821.

CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE CA. FISH & GAME COMMISSION:
Mailing Address:
California Fish and Game Commission
1416 Ninth Street
P.O. Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090

Phone Number:
(916) 653-4899

Fax Number:
(916) 653-5040

E-Mail: (Please include "State-wide Lead Ammo Ban" in the e-mail subject line.)
Submit written comments, via electronic mail to:

John Carlson, Jr., Executive Director fgc@fgc.ca.gov
Jon K. Fischer, Deputy Executive Director - Regulations and Policy jfischer@fgc.ca.gov
Adrianna Shea, Deputy Executive Director - Special Advisor to the Commissioners ashea@fgc.ca.gov

Note: If you prefer to send only one email, you can send a single email to the Fish and Game representatives by using the special "ONE CLICK" email address that you can find HERE . By sending one email to the special "ONE CLICK" address, each one of the Fish and Game representatives (listed above) will receive a copy of your message (so it is probably a good idea to address your messages with: Dear Fish & Game Commission,).

WHAT ELSE YOU CAN DO:
If you are not already a member of your local NRA Members' Council, JOIN NOW! It costs you nothing but a little of your time - volunteering to help the NRA regain our Second Amendment rights in California.
If you received this CALIFORNIA-ALERT SYSTEM (CAL-ERTs) message from sources other than your own personal subscription, we encourage you to subscribe to this free service. We won't send you messages very often, but when we do, something important is happening.
Circulate this alert to every firearms owner, shooter, hunter, club, and freedom-loving American that you know and ask them to help.
Be proud of your accomplishments and be especially proud that YOU are willing to fight for all of our rights to enjoy our Second Amendment freedoms!

Continue to monitor the latest legislative updates at: http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/legs.shtml

A printable version of this CAL-ERT can be found at: http://www.calnra.com/calerts/pdf/calert020509.pdf

Archived CAL-ERTs can be found at:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/ca...es/index.shtml

NRA Members' Councils of California http://NRAMembersCouncils.com
I've been in contact with dept of all misinformation,I was told the ban wasn't on the agenda but Western Outdoor News last week reported it was,a rep said lead ban was only the condor zone not the state.RINO Gov appointed people to the fish & game commission who obviously had loyalties to opposing groups .One CA hunter sent a letter to the commission but it was returned to him with a statement "Matter Closed".

Last edited by scr83jp; 02-17-2009 at 9:27 AM..
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2009, 3:34 PM
rpounds rpounds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tube_ee View Post
the ammo companies were caught napping by this?

It's far, far more likely that they are quietly pushing it. Compare the price of lead and non-lead ammo, and you'll see all the motivation you'll ever need.

Just because these companies make stuff we like does not make them our friends. There are no such things as "principles" in business.

--SHannon
From the Barnes Bullets Website:

It has come to our attention that negative allegations are being circulated about Barnes Bullets’ involvement in the California lead ban issue. To clarify, Barnes has not funded or supported efforts to further the advancement of any lead ban, nor will we ever. Barnes is a bullet manufacturer. We are not biologists and have no expertise in this field; however, it is our position that this type of legislation or any legislation further restricting hunters and shooters their freedom of choice of products they care to use on the range and in the field is a threat and devastating to the hunting and shooting industry and community. Bullet performance is what drives Barnes' designs. Whether a Barnes bullet contains a lead core or not depends on the desired terminal performance. Barnes currently offers several lines of products manufactured from lead-free materials that were developed for their performance characteristics. These products happen to meet the criteria set forth under the Condor Preservation Act. However, Barnes still manufactures its premium Original™ line of jacketed, lead-cored bullets. A lead ban removes the very foundation on which the company was built. When Randy Brooks developed the all-copper X-Bullet in the mid 1980's, it never even crossed
his mind that this bullet would one day be considered environmentally friendly. He simply wanted a more reliable bullet that would retain its weight, penetrate deeply, and create a devastating wound cavity. Copper bullets are far more difficult to manufacture than lead-cored bullets. Copper bullets
require advanced technology and tooling, and increased testing during production to produce a superior product. In the impact extrusion manufacturing process, lead flows like water compared to copper. Copper is hard on both tooling and equipment, but the results are a bullet that delivers
the best terminal performance on game. Barnes Bullets was invited, along with other manufacturers, to give a presentation to the California Fish & Game Commission about lead-free products offered by their respective
companies in August, 2007. It was our intent to provide information to the commission at their request (as stated by Commissioner John Carlson in this meeting). You can view the presentation Barnes gave at this meeting by going to www.cal-span.org, click on Fish & Game Commission on the left-hand side navigation menu, then scroll down to the August 27, 2007 meeting and click the “Complete” link to view the meeting. The Barnes presentation begins at 3:06:30 and ends at 300. Barnes Bullets will continue to offer products manufactured from materials that enhance performance, just as we have done for over 75 years. Further information regarding the Barnes
products may be obtained from our website at www.barnesbullets.com. Our free DVD “Bullet Myths Busted” is available through the website or by calling toll-free 1.800.574.9200.

As Jesse mentioned, this lead ban is a back door way for the antis to limit our ability to pursue hunting and shooting. I don't believe that Barnes would throw in with the antis, considering that if they did, they would be killing off their own customers. Barnes just happened to have the right product at the right time IMHO.
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