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Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more If it locks up, carries, fits on to or cleans up your firearms, discuss it here.

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  #1  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:25 PM
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Default Help me design a Safe Room

Hi everyone, were in the beginning phase of a remodel in which we will be adding a room to the front of our house. The house sits on a pretty good slope, with the back of the property line being much higher than the front/street, so o thought it would make sense to build a room under the addition. Without any excavation, the room would probably go from 8 in the front down to 4 in the back, so the excavation would be minimal to have about 10 front-to-back.

Okay, so there will be a room under our living room. The original idea was to simply put a workshop there, but with the excavation there can be a good sized room, about 12x18. I definitely want a workshop, but am considering adding a gun room. So Ive got a choice to make. Do I:

(A) Partition the room and make a 12x8 gun room and a 12x9.5 workshop, building the gun room as a concrete box completely enclosed, with a safe door (essentially a 12x8 safe).

Or

(B) Try to go crazy and dig down ANOTHER 10, basically building a basement under the workshop, so Ill have a 12x18 workshop AND a 12x18 gun room under.

I dont yet have any idea of cost for these two options, but we plan to do some excavation, so the incremental cost of option (B) might not be too much of an issue. Anybody have ideas on the cost?

Id love tonhere from others who have built gun rooms (or safe rooms) about various elements of the build like choosing a vault door, concrete walls, etc.

This is going to be fun!
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Old 01-14-2018, 5:44 PM
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i always wanted one as well. never did come to fruition however.

an associate i once knew built one, if i recall correctly it proved challenging because of the high humidity levels. I think he tried to make things work with appropriate drainage and running a dehumidifier.

not sure how to check or this but thought i'd mention it.

also, make sure you have a door that will let you out from the inside, like a freezer room...and a wired phone just in case.
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Old 01-14-2018, 6:09 PM
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Your biggest issue will be the local building codes and inspectors. They may just engineer your simple plans to death. Oh and escalate the budget for this to a point between here and the moon.
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Old 01-14-2018, 9:34 PM
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Try here with blueprints here.

Look around the website, lots of good info there. Your tax dollars at work.

Good luck,
Criss
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Old 01-14-2018, 9:50 PM
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Your biggest issue will be the local building codes and inspectors. They may just engineer your simple plans to death. Oh and escalate the budget for this to a point between here and the moon.
This having to deal with city codes.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:13 PM
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This having to deal with city codes.
Good news is Im not in the city. Only have to worry about the county.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:07 PM
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So, against what threat?

For example, being able to comfortably survive a group burning your house down around the room is a bigger challenge than to deny entry for an hour.
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Old 01-15-2018, 7:57 PM
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So, against what threat?

For example, being able to comfortably survive a group burning your house down around the room is a bigger challenge than to deny entry for an hour.
Sorry... I now see the confusion. I dont need a safe room per say, but instead a room that acts as a giant safe. Maybe its more of a walk-in safe made of concrete. I could see it having other uses, like sleeping in there after an earthquake (assuming its built as strong as expected) or denying entry for a few hours during a shtf situation, but the primary use is as a safe for guns and ammo (and maybe other preps like water and food).

Hope this clears things up a bit.
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Old 01-15-2018, 9:08 PM
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First off, if you're having issues with the county, its a wine cellar, not a gun room, RIGHT?!

I looked into doing this detached from my house with a hidden entry way down to it. My reason for wanting to do it was because of the more than likely chance my house will burn down in a wildfire while I own it. It ended up being about 12,000$ to build a 10x10x8 room, all concrete, cinderblock, rebar, safe door, labor ect. and that was with me using my own tractor to dig it out. The hardest part of the whole process I was told would be was forming the roof.

After talking to several firemen who've worked in wildfires they all told me unless its a complete concrete structure, it's not immune to wildfire. The wildfires can get hot enough to melt steel and the door would melt compromising the structure. The only way it would survive was if I had some sort of concrete door to go over the safe door. The house I own now, burnt down about a decade ago and the wildfire was so severe, there was no fire crew able to make it within 5 miles of my home. I ended up buying one of the biggest safes Sturdy makes and I keep most of my guns at a family members house during high wildfire season. There's basically no large safe on the market under $8,000 that can withstand a wildfire with no response from the fire department. Since your room will be inside your house, in the event of a burn down with no fire response, there's a chance it wouldn't make it either. The house would be on fire for several days.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:21 PM
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Yes, that's helpful.

Just poking around, I found https://www.vaultprousa.com/modular-storm-shelters.htm; they claim to have 2300F resistant insulation - but I don't see for how long.

Not a structural engineer, or any other kind of engineer, but a little more looking talks a lot about concrete building fire resistance, and their consideration seems to stop at around 8 hours duration. 5 - 7 inches, depending on aggregate in the concrete, seems to be good for 4 hours protection.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.56 View Post
First off, if you're having issues with the county, its a wine cellar, not a gun room, RIGHT?!

I looked into doing this detached from my house with a hidden entry way down to it. My reason for wanting to do it was because of the more than likely chance my house will burn down in a wildfire while I own it. It ended up being about 12,000$ to build a 10x10x8 room, all concrete, cinderblock, rebar, safe door, labor ect. and that was with me using my own tractor to dig it out. The hardest part of the whole process I was told would be was forming the roof.

After talking to several firemen who've worked in wildfires they all told me unless its a complete concrete structure, it's not immune to wildfire. The wildfires can get hot enough to melt steel and the door would melt compromising the structure. The only way it would survive was if I had some sort of concrete door to go over the safe door. The house I own now, burnt down about a decade ago and the wildfire was so severe, there was no fire crew able to make it within 5 miles of my home. I ended up buying one of the biggest safes Sturdy makes and I keep most of my guns at a family members house during high wildfire season. There's basically no large safe on the market under $8,000 that can withstand a wildfire with no response from the fire department. Since your room will be inside your house, in the event of a burn down with no fire response, there's a chance it wouldn't make it either. The house would be on fire for several days.
Yea, I do worry about fire, but were not really in a wildfire danger zone so Im not too concerned about protecting from fire. That said, Ill make sure to keep this info in mind when designing as a few hundred dollars more on a concrete door might be worth it.
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Old 01-16-2018, 4:22 PM
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Can you incorporate a product similar to Insulwool in your plans? I'm not an engineer or anything so I don't know how/if the heat would transfer. Specs. say it is good for a max temp of 2300 degrees, with a continuous rating of 2150 degrees.
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Old 01-17-2018, 2:38 PM
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Yea, I do worry about fire, but were not really in a wildfire danger zone so Im not too concerned about protecting from fire.
I'll just leave this here, because some folks don't seem to be paying attention.
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Old 01-17-2018, 4:26 PM
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There is one major question I would ask your first: if this structure is going to be for the storage of firearms, ammo, etc; are you OK with folks knowing of its existence, or do you want to keep it quiet?.....If you want to be under the radar, consider the possibility of constructing it without the blessings of those who will increase your taxes as a result. If you plan on owning it for a long time, this may make sense. If you plan on moving within twenty to thirty years, you might be better off asking for permission. One last thought on this: any insurance on the dwelling may be affected by permits or the lack of.
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Old 01-18-2018, 7:24 AM
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There is one major question I would ask your first: if this structure is going to be for the storage of firearms, ammo, etc; are you OK with folks knowing of its existence, or do you want to keep it quiet?.....If you want to be under the radar, consider the possibility of constructing it without the blessings of those who will increase your taxes as a result. If you plan on owning it for a long time, this may make sense. If you plan on moving within twenty to thirty years, you might be better off asking for permission. One last thought on this: any insurance on the dwelling may be affected by permits or the lack of.
Yea, Ive thought of that, but decided everything will be legit with permits, etc. As someone else said, it will be my wine cellar with high security.
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Old 01-18-2018, 7:26 AM
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I'll just leave this here, because some folks don't seem to be paying attention.
Im not saying it wont happen, Im saying Im not going to build something explicitly for the purpose of protecting from fire. That said, I have a funny feeling that, when. Its all said and done, Ill be covered.
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Old 01-18-2018, 7:44 AM
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A safe room should be secret room - make it so.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:32 PM
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A safe room should be secret room - make it so.
I agree, but it would suck to have issues selling the house down the road because it wasnt permitted. So for now we are building a wine cellar.
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Old 01-21-2018, 9:36 AM
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Along the idea of wild fires, I saw many years ago a small concrete storage structure about 15 feet from a large dinning hall used to store canned goods.
The structure its self was maybe maybe 36 sq feet with a steel door, at least 8' high. I visited the facility a couple of days after the fire went through. The dinning hall was saved the concrete storage structure was still smoking. The contents literally toast.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:11 PM
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Default Help me design a Safe Room

If your concern is wildfires, there are whole house exterior fire suppression sprinkler systems. Some use city water power, some have generators and use your pool water if you have one. Some also have fire suppression chems injected into the water. They have long distance fire/smoke detectors that will turn the system on and off. This allows you time to safely evacuate because you will not survive in even a concrete underground panic room. If if smoke inhalation doesnt get you, fires sucks all the 02 from atmosphere. Cost seems to be around $25k, but its whole house protection.


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Old 01-22-2018, 11:46 AM
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If your concern is wildfires, there are whole house exterior fire suppression sprinkler systems. Some use city water power, some have generators and use your pool water if you have one. Some also have fire suppression chems injected into the water. They have long distance fire/smoke detectors that will turn the system on and off. This allows you time to safely evacuate because you will not survive in even a concrete underground panic room. If if smoke inhalation doesnt get you, fires sucks all the 02 from atmosphere. Cost seems to be around $25k, but its whole house protection.


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Thanks for the continued insight, but again, the goal here is not fire protection.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:04 PM
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Best of luck Scbauer. I could write a book dealing with the parasites and jack offs of my city. Just finished a building a house here. The fees and permits where insane. Almost very inspector was a dick. Talk about power trips and double talk. Never seen such BS. I could ramble on and on.
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Old 01-22-2018, 3:52 PM
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Best of luck Scbauer. I could write a book dealing with the parasites and jack offs of my city. Just finished a building a house here. The fees and permits where insane. Almost very inspector was a dick. Talk about power trips and double talk. Never seen such BS. I could ramble on and on.
It sounds like thats a common theme. Im lucky in that I dont live in the city but instead unincorporated County, so inspectors/permits are supposedly much easier, but well see.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:49 PM
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option A. use solid grouted CMU walls with rebar at 8 inches on center and a concrete ceiling/floor 6 inches thick with rebar at 8 inches oc. you will need some gravity fed ventilation amd install a safe quality door.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:11 AM
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This may help with forming walls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh3qvSPjW48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJB_9eVheqk
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Old 01-23-2018, 2:16 PM
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I have a gun room in my basement. 16X16. Door leading to the basement is 4 inches thick made out of treated bamboo for strength and flexibity with ball bearing hinges, double deadbolts and all tied together with 3 inch screws. The walls for the gun room itself are concrete on two sides and 3 inch planks on the other two sides. The two wood sides are cross banded with more bamboo and 3 inch screws and pressure treated. The door itself opens outwards with welded ball bearing hinges steel frame and is made of 4 inch thick planks with two double keyed deadbolts. Definitely not fire proof but Id say an intruder without tools and power equipment could not get it without some serious lock picking backround and with tools at least an hour of pounding away at the doors.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:14 PM
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I have a gun room in my basement. 16X16. Door leading to the basement is 4 inches thick made out of treated bamboo for strength and flexibity with ball bearing hinges, double deadbolts and all tied together with 3 inch screws. The walls for the gun room itself are concrete on two sides and 3 inch planks on the other two sides. The two wood sides are cross banded with more bamboo and 3 inch screws and pressure treated. The door itself opens outwards with welded ball bearing hinges steel frame and is made of 4 inch thick planks with two double keyed deadbolts. Definitely not fire proof but Id say an intruder without tools and power equipment could not get it without some serious lock picking backround and with tools at least an hour of pounding away at the doors.
So are you saying one can't cut thru 4 inches of bamboo with a chainsaw or gas powered cop saw?
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Old 01-24-2018, 4:39 AM
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So are you saying one can't cut thru 4 inches of bamboo with a chainsaw or gas powered cop saw?
He said:[quote]
Quote:
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...but Id say an intruder without tools and power equipment could not get it without some serious lock picking backround and with tools at least an hour of pounding away at the doors
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Old 01-24-2018, 6:36 AM
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[QUOTE=Dvrjon;21194539]He said:Thank you for clarifying that for him Sir. If you can’t lockpick and don’t have power equipment then I will bet you can’t get into my basement. With equipment then I will concede you can but it will take you time and time is all I need.

Last edited by mach; 01-24-2018 at 6:48 AM..
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Old 01-24-2018, 6:54 AM
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And heres my door suggestion OP. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnslSas5ZOQ sure it will cost you more then the guns inside but hey at least you know theyll have to pull a Tom Cruise and drop thru your air vent after disconnecting all your lasers.
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Old 01-24-2018, 7:29 AM
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Done right you should have vapor barrier under the floor, and on the outside of the walls. Other wise you will end up with some extent of moisture/vapor transmission. There are coatings and products that will stop/hold moisture on the inside, but its easier to plan for vapor from the start.
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Old 01-24-2018, 8:43 AM
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You could also claim it's a cheese cave... you've always had an interest in home-brew, cheesemaking, salumi, mead... and you need part of your house underground to stay cool in the summer. :-)
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Old 01-25-2018, 8:42 AM
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[QUOTE=Dvrjon;21194539]He said:Do you have any tools in your house? Because if I broke in and wanted into your safe room and I didn't have tools I would use yours
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Old 01-25-2018, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
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He said:

Do you have any tools in your house?
Because if I broke in and wanted into your safe room and I didn't have tools I would use yours
I keep my tools in my safe room.
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