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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-30-2017, 1:04 PM
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Default George Holt, et al. v. California AG Xavier Becerra SAF, FPC, CGF (CA Superior Court)

A new one AW regulations challenge

CGF, SAF FPC,FPF sponored.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1512070807

Last edited by taperxz; 11-30-2017 at 1:32 PM..
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Old 11-30-2017, 3:29 PM
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I hope it goes well. They need to be sued, over and over, and over again.
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Old 11-30-2017, 7:03 PM
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I hope it goes well. They need to be sued, over and over, and over again.
What we "need" is Trump/Pence to replace an anti on SCOTUS with another Scalia clone.
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Old 11-30-2017, 7:39 PM
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You have GOT to be kidding me. Here is FPC, FPF, CGF, again trying to duplicate NRA efforts. They really owe their contributors an explanation as to why this lawsuit is necessary in light of the CRPA/NRA-backed Villanueva suit, and not just a waste of precious gun owner resources.

Is this going to be just like the magazine lawsuit? Where the NRA-backed Duncan wins a resounding victory with the preliminary injunction, and the FPC-backed Weise case gets thrashed (and inexplicably keeps pushing on)?

I have said it before, gun-mageddon brought us an avalanche of new laws - why can't they go after some of the other pieces of legislation the NRA hasn't filed a lawsuit on yet? How about the 80% law? Restriction on CCW? Something, anything, else.
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Old 11-30-2017, 7:54 PM
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This is a joke, the entire case is about the DOJ over stepping its authority and FPC didn't even mention the 5477 regulation(post registration modification).
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Old 12-01-2017, 4:24 PM
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I have said it before, gun-mageddon brought us an avalanche of new laws -
We haven't seen what they have next. Prop 63 ensured more gun control is favored by the sheep of this state. We will see worse legislation in the next year or two.
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Old 01-03-2018, 5:07 PM
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Current status from FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/holt_...olicycoalition
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Old 01-03-2018, 5:42 PM
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each lawsuit may score different points adding up to a more complete victory in the end and resulting in the removing of these laws. No one lawsuit forces the courts to consider everything and nothing should fall through the cracks or provide a loophole for the state to get through. if the first lawsuit wins then the rest will just add needed support to that decision by either reaffirming the original decision or catching things that might have been missed. But beware that the state might go the prop route again since it once won at the ballot box already with prop 63 and scare tactics. Let the lawyers fight the court battles and gun owners need to concentrate on the public education and using correct and honest statistics to bring people around to our side. a public campaign would not hurt, bumper stickers, and forcing the issuance of concealed weapons permits based on criteria that does not consider the so-called loosely defined moral character of a citizen. If our legislators and local officials under investigations are allowed to carry concealed weapons then moral issues are bogus in denying the average citizen a CCW in any county. if a sheriff pulls a CCW on moral grounds but has politicians under investigation doing CCW in that county that should be enough to file a lawsuit against the sheriff and the county.

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Old 01-03-2018, 6:19 PM
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What we "need" is Trump/Pence to replace an anti on SCOTUS with another Scalia clone.
That and a DOJ willing to ride into town wielding consent decrees and an FBI looking into all the crooked pols in Sacramento!!! Uncle Leland needs a big spoon!
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Old 01-03-2018, 7:49 PM
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Default Injunction filed in Holt et vBecerra

Here is press release dated January 3, 2018.

The case is filed in California Superior Court for Riverside County. The filings today also added another individual plaintiff - Craig Stevens. SFC Stevens is an active duty member of the California Army National Guard and is currently deployed to the Middle East.


RIVERSIDE, CA (January 3, 2018) — Attorneys for 5 California gun owners and 4 civil rights advocacy organizations have filed for an injunction against the state’s Department of Justice regulations on so-called “assault weapons.”

In the request for an injunction, the plaintiffs argue that “they, and many others similarly situated, will suffer irreparable injury if they are forced to comply with the registration requirement in accordance with the Challenged Regulations by the statutory deadline of June 30, 2018. In essence, they and many others would either be illegally forced to register or illegally denied the ability to register their firearms.”

Also filed was an amendment to the case, adding Craig Stevens as an individual plaintiff suing over the regulations. According to the filing, Stevens is “currently an active-duty member of the California Army National Guard, having the rank of Sergeant First Class (SFC), and is currently and as of December 23, 2017, deployed overseas to the Middle East.”

Stevens has tried multiple times to comply with the DOJ regulations on “assault weapons,” but the DOJ rejected his application even though there was no legal basis for them to deny him the registration of his firearm. “The declaratory and injunctive relief, and/or mandamus relief, sought in this action are necessary as set forth herein, to vindicate his right (and obligation), and the rights (and obligations) of others similarly situated, to register this legally-owned firearm as the only available means by which to maintain lawful possession of such firearms according to the DOJ’s regulatory scheme,” the court filing says.

About the new filings, plaintiffs’ attorney George M. Lee explained, “As we show in our motion for an injunction, the State’s regulatory and enforcement scheme was designed and functions to separate law-abiding people from their rights, property, and statutory obligations. We seek in this case to make DOJ follow the same laws they impose on others – and protect law-abiding gun owners in the process.”

Raymond DiGuiseppe, co-counsel and former California deputy attorney general, agreed. “The Department of Justice has grossly exceeded their authority and is illegally imposing its will on thousands of California gun owners. Their regulations and actions undermine the rule of law and put potentially hundreds of thousands of people at risk for serious criminal liability. We look forward to resolving these issues as quickly as possible and protecting California’s law-abiding gun owners from this regulatory overreach.”

Named as defendants are California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, Chief of the DOJ Bureau of Firearms Stephen Lindley, the California Department of Justice itself, Director of the Office of Administrative Law (OAL) Debra Cornez, and State Controller Betty Yee.

The lawsuit is backed by The Calguns Foundation (CGF), Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC), and Firearms Policy Foundation (FPF).

A copy of the complaint and petition for writ of mandate can be viewed or downloaded at http://bit.ly/holt-v-becerra.

CASE BACKGROUND:

In July 2016, California Governor Jerry Brown signed a number of new gun control bills into law, including two (SB 880, Hall; AB 1135, Levine) expanding the State’s ban on so-called “assault weapons.” The bills were universally opposed by civil rights advocacy groups including Firearms Policy Coalition, Gun Owners of California, the National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and others.

“The Legislature ignored every rule in the book to fast-track their civilian disarmament agenda and herd the people into a state-wide gun-free-zone,” said FPC Spokesperson Craig DeLuz in a statement at the time.

Following that, in December 2016, the California DOJ submitted its first attempt at “assault weapons” regulations under the OAL’s “File & Print” process, which means that the DOJ claimed the regulations were not subject to the public notice or comment requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act (APA).

However, the DOJ withdrew the regulations near the end of OAL review period, after receiving thousands of opposition letters from FPC members and Second Amendment supporters.

Then, in May of last year, the DOJ re-submitted regulations under the same “File & Print” process. FPC, FPF, CGF, and Craig DeLuz sued the DOJ over the Department’s actions of blocking access to the public records concerning its promulgation of these regulations. The regulations were completely rejected by OAL a little more than a month later.

Next, the DOJ submitted a virtually-identical set of regulations under the “File & Print” process, again claiming “APA-exempt” status. Inexplicably, this time the OAL approved the regulations, shuttling them along for publication through the Secretary of State in July 2017 and thus allowing the DOJ to proceed with its new “assault weapon” regulatory process.

Then, just before closing doors for the Thanksgiving 2017 holiday, the DOJ notified FPC and other Institutional Plaintiffs that it had filed yet another proposed rulemaking on “bullet-button assault weapons” (that would create new 11 CCR § 5460) for the purpose of attempting to retroactively bootstrap its prior July regulations into effect for all purposes including criminal prosecutions.

FPC published the new proposed regulations and prior regulatory updates at BulletButtonBan.com, a Web site it established in 2016 for tracking the new California assault weapon laws and regulations. Members of the public can use FPC’s Grassroots Action Tools to submit responsive written comments to DOJ regarding the new proposed regulations.

A public hearing on the new regulations is scheduled for 10 a.m. on January 8, 2018, at the Resources Building Auditorium in Sacramento.

ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL PLAINTIFFS:

Plaintiffs George Holt, Irvin Hoff, Michael Louie, Rick Russell, and Craig Stevens are all law-abiding, tax-paying residents of California who lawfully own firearms potentially subject to the DOJ’s illegal regulatory scheme. This scheme would retroactively deem their firearms “assault weapons” that either must now be registered as such through a burdensome and wasteful registration process or that cannot be registered all, effectively rendering any continued possession unlawful. The DOJ’s regulations expose them to criminal liability that would not otherwise exist under the actual laws regulating firearms in California.

The plaintiffs have joined this lawsuit to stand against the illegal regulatory actions of the DOJ and protect their rights and the rights of countless other law-abiding California gun owners being placed in jeopardy.

ABOUT THE ORGANIZATIONS:

The Calguns Foundation (www.calgunsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization that serves its members, supporters, and the public through educational, cultural, and judicial efforts to advance Second Amendment and related civil rights.

Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

Firearms Policy Coalition (www.firearmspolicy.org) is a 501(c)4 grassroots nonprofit organization. FPC’s mission is to defend the Constitution of the United States, especially the fundamental, individual Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, through advocacy, legal action, education, and outreach.

Firearms Policy Foundation (www.firearmsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 grassroots nonprofit organization. FPF’s mission is to defend the Constitution of the United States and the People’s rights, privileges and immunities deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition, especially the inalienable, fundamental, and individual right to keep and bear arms.
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Old 01-03-2018, 7:56 PM
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Notice that a public hearing on the new regulations is scheduled for 10 AM on January 8th at the Resources Building Auditorium in Craptomento.
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Old 01-03-2018, 9:07 PM
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The press release is a bit confusing, I've been on Active duty orders since Sept 20th, left the state on the 24th, I officially became a plaintiff on Dec 23rd. As many of you know from the other threads, I've been trying to get this issue straightened out with CAL DOJ since mid August and at every turn they have refused to be of any assistance, hence my entrance into this lawsuit.
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Old 01-04-2018, 5:53 AM
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How do you eat a big meal...........one little bite at a time. Sue the Bas#ards. You can't win if you don't fight.
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Old 01-04-2018, 9:07 AM
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I like this challenge! Whether you are a fan or not of the sponsors of this lawsuit. It does put DOJ in a corner.

Basically, the PC says, "if you possessed a bullet button firearm legally prior to 12/31/16 YOU MUST REGISTER IT. The PC does not give you the ability to change it and not register it. (legislative screw up)

The fun part is that DOJ won't let you register it if it is now lacking a BB due to making it featurless.

Who is right? DOJ or the Penal Code as voted on in Sacramento? Technically and legally, if you don't register, then the gun is illegal per the PC.

Last edited by taperxz; 01-04-2018 at 9:11 AM..
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Old 01-04-2018, 9:28 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
I like this challenge! Whether you are a fan or not of the sponsors of this lawsuit. It does put DOJ in a corner.

Basically, the PC says, "if you possessed a bullet button firearm legally prior to 12/31/16 YOU MUST REGISTER IT. The PC does not give you the ability to change it and not register it. (legislative screw up)

The fun part is that DOJ won't let you register it if it is now lacking a BB due to making it featurless.

Who is right? DOJ or the Penal Code as voted on in Sacramento? Technically and legally, if you don't register, then the gun is illegal per the PC.
Yup, here is an interesting twist.

For those that remembered the SKS fiasco, when DOJ initially indicated that some SKS rifles are NOT required to be registered and later changed its opinion and illegally extend the registration period? Resulted in some late to register SKS owners losing their registered rifles.

Who is to say that after June 30, 2018 some anti-gun group will not sue to enforce that ALL bullet button rifles once possessed between 2001 and 2016 should have been registered and DOJ had no legal authority to grant waiver due to modification to featureless. So for those folks with rifle that changed from BB to featureless that did not register are now possessing illegal AW that will have to be turned in. Specially those purchased post 2014, since they already know who you are. Or a short visit to your local FFL to copy the 4473 binder.

Hum, maybe it is the plan from the beginning... The reason DOJ pushes for featureless conversion vs registration.
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
Yup, here is an interesting twist.

For those that remembered the SKS fiasco, when DOJ initially indicated that some SKS rifles are NOT required to be registered and later changed its opinion and illegally extend the registration period? Resulted in some late to register SKS owners losing their registered rifles.

Who is to say that after June 30, 2018 some anti-gun group will not sue to enforce that ALL bullet button rifles once possessed between 2001 and 2016 should have been registered and DOJ had no legal authority to grant waiver due to modification to featureless. So for those folks with rifle that changed from BB to featureless that did not register are now possessing illegal AW that will have to be turned in. Specially those purchased post 2014, since they already know who you are. Or a short visit to your local FFL to copy the 4473 binder.

Hum, maybe it is the plan from the beginning... The reason DOJ pushes for featureless conversion vs registration.
The difference is that the DOJ doesn't have a list of featureless rifles like they did for the SKS registration fiasco.
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Old 01-29-2018, 7:56 PM
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^
Yet
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Old 01-29-2018, 7:57 PM
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They will shortly
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Old 01-30-2018, 7:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
Yup, here is an interesting twist.

For those that remembered the SKS fiasco, when DOJ initially indicated that some SKS rifles are NOT required to be registered and later changed its opinion and illegally extend the registration period? Resulted in some late to register SKS owners losing their registered rifles.

Who is to say that after June 30, 2018 some anti-gun group will not sue to enforce that ALL bullet button rifles once possessed between 2001 and 2016 should have been registered and DOJ had no legal authority to grant waiver due to modification to featureless. So for those folks with rifle that changed from BB to featureless that did not register are now possessing illegal AW that will have to be turned in. Specially those purchased post 2014, since they already know who you are. Or a short visit to your local FFL to copy the 4473 binder.

Hum, maybe it is the plan from the beginning... The reason DOJ pushes for featureless conversion vs registration.
Even with a boatload of 4473 binders they have no way of knowing if the guns sold were sold with BBs or as featureless. More CA stupidity.
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Old 01-30-2018, 8:21 AM
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You have GOT to be kidding me. Here is FPC, FPF, CGF, again trying to duplicate NRA efforts. They really owe their contributors an explanation as to why this lawsuit is necessary in light of the CRPA/NRA-backed Villanueva suit, and not just a waste of precious gun owner resources.

Is this going to be just like the magazine lawsuit? Where the NRA-backed Duncan wins a resounding victory with the preliminary injunction, and the FPC-backed Weise case gets thrashed (and inexplicably keeps pushing on)?

I have said it before, gun-mageddon brought us an avalanche of new laws - why can't they go after some of the other pieces of legislation the NRA hasn't filed a lawsuit on yet? How about the 80% law? Restriction on CCW? Something, anything, else.
Agree all the competition for pro 2A support $$ is doing us no favors. CRPA has the best track record in CA. All these “me too” organization are just fund raising sponsor self-employment opportunities. Focus our limited financial resources on the organization with the track record - CRPA.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
What we "need" is Trump/Pence to replace an anti on SCOTUS with another Scalia clone.
Not just one, but two.
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Old 01-30-2018, 4:01 PM
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The DOJ has filed a "Notice of Related Case" on this lawsuit with the Judge in "Danny Villanueva vs Xavier Becerra" Case. It sounds like they're complaining that "Holt" is basically the same case as "Villanueva" and one or the other should be tossed (if I understand it correctly).
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Old 01-30-2018, 8:38 PM
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Agree all the competition for pro 2A support $$ is doing us no favors. CRPA has the best track record in CA. All these “me too” organization are just fund raising sponsor self-employment opportunities. Focus our limited financial resources on the organization with the track record - CRPA.
What did CRPA win?
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Old 01-30-2018, 9:20 PM
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Default George Holt, et al. v. California AG Xavier Becerra SAF, FPC, CGF (CA Superior Court)

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What did CRPA win?
Nobody wins 2A cases in CA. The object is to build up a history of ruling that eventually SCOTUS will cert for hearing.

Here are two that have had some success only to be overturned in the 9th circus.

http://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/

http://michellawyers.com/guncasetrac...rutavsandiego/

You seem to like to fanboy for FPC. Why not signup as volunteer fundraiser and make yourself even less useful.


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Old 01-31-2018, 9:17 AM
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Nobody wins 2A cases in CA. The object is to build up a history of ruling that eventually SCOTUS will cert for hearing.

Here are two that have had some success only to be overturned in the 9th circus.

http://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/

http://michellawyers.com/guncasetrac...rutavsandiego/

You seem to like to fanboy for FPC. Why not signup as volunteer fundraiser and make yourself even less useful.


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HA!! You have no idea who your talking to. LOL I don't fanboy any org except mine! Its looking more and more like FPC may in fact get two of their cases in the SCOTUS.

YOU are the fanboy since you bash FPC. I look at the merits of each case and root for them. I'm a fanboy of the 2A not who brings it to court
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:07 AM
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Default George Holt, et al. v. California AG Xavier Becerra SAF, FPC, CGF (CA Superior Court)

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HA!! You have no idea who your talking to. LOL I don't fanboy any org except mine! Its looking more and more like FPC may in fact get two of their cases in the SCOTUS.



YOU are the fanboy since you bash FPC. I look at the merits of each case and root for them. I'm a fanboy of the 2A not who brings it to court


Cite the cases. I’ll wont be surprised they are just copies with different plaintiffs that have already been filed. This seems to be there me too MO.
Except of course their anti 2A case to force gun owners to register featureless rifles.


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Old 01-31-2018, 10:12 AM
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Cite the cases


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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=974616

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1198255
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Old 01-31-2018, 1:06 PM
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Silvester was filed by Cal Guns Foundation with Brandon Combs added as as plaintiff. FPC only filed an amicus brief per their own website (see below)
https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/silvester

Teixeira vs Alameda county filed by GCF, SAF and CAL-FFL. Again FPC only filed an amicus brief per their own website (see below)

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...0/13-17132.pdf







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Old 01-31-2018, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Silvester was filed by Cal Guns Foundation with Brandon Combs added as as plaintiff. FPC only filed an amicus brief per their own website (see below)
https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/silvester

Teixeira vs Alameda county filed by GCF, SAF and CAL-FFL. Again FPC only filed an amicus brief per their own website (see below)






No kidding Sherlock, FPC wasn't around when these lawsuits were filed but they are the same people. Same thing with Pena.
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Old 01-31-2018, 1:52 PM
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Default George Holt, et al. v. California AG Xavier Becerra SAF, FPC, CGF (CA Superior Court)

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No kidding Sherlock, FPC wasn't around when these lawsuits were filed but they are the same people. Same thing with Pena.


That good pretzel logic. But if you want to continue to make donations to FPC, it’s your money.
In the mean time I’ll recuse myself from engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.


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Old 01-31-2018, 2:03 PM
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That good pretzel logic. But if you want to continue to make donations to FPC, it’s your money.
In the mean time I’ll recuse myself from engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.


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LOL!! You're missing the point. I don't give to any particular organization.

I'm just saying that what matters is 2A rights in CA and being a fan boy of any group doesn't help our world.

Right now we have two cases in front of SCOTUS. Do you want them to lose because the right group isn't supporting it?
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Old 01-31-2018, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
The DOJ has filed a "Notice of Related Case" on this lawsuit with the Judge in "Danny Villanueva vs Xavier Becerra" Case. It sounds like they're complaining that "Holt" is basically the same case as "Villanueva" and one or the other should be tossed (if I understand it correctly).
Not so much tossed, but consolidated together. You think the FPC/CGF anit-NRA/CRPA complex is bad now? Just wait until they are in the same case together. The in-fighting will surely set back our efforts.

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Its looking more and more like FPC may in fact get two of their cases in the SCOTUS
How so? How do these cases figure to do any better than all of the others that have been recently rejected? This is not to mention that the "lose and appeal" strategy is not a good one. Duncan won their injunction, Weise did not. It's always better to be the one defending an appeal than to be the one bring it. Put the burden on DOJ, not gun owners. Weise should have never been filed, let alone prosecuted past the denial of the injunction.

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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
LOL!! You're missing the point. I don't give to any particular organization.

I'm just saying that what matters is 2A rights in CA and being a fan boy of any group doesn't help our world.

Right now we have two cases in front of SCOTUS. Do you want them to lose because the right group isn't supporting it?
But it does matter when the legal team behind a case are doing it either (1) incompetently, or (2) with questionable motives, like trying to stay relevant in a fundraising war. Or both. Bad cases make bad law.
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Old 01-31-2018, 9:21 PM
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Not so much tossed, but consolidated together. You think the FPC/CGF anit-NRA/CRPA complex is bad now? Just wait until they are in the same case together. The in-fighting will surely set back our efforts.



How so? How do these cases figure to do any better than all of the others that have been recently rejected? This is not to mention that the "lose and appeal" strategy is not a good one. Duncan won their injunction, Weise did not. It's always better to be the one defending an appeal than to be the one bring it. Put the burden on DOJ, not gun owners. Weise should have never been filed, let alone prosecuted past the denial of the injunction.



But it does matter when the legal team behind a case are doing it either (1) incompetently, or (2) with questionable motives, like trying to stay relevant in a fundraising war. Or both. Bad cases make bad law.
Uh, well for starters, the cases I presented are in SCOTUS hands right now.

What’s really sad is that many of you are so consumed by your own postings, you don’t even know what’s in the courts or not. I don’t care if it’s NRA or SAF sponsored

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Old 01-31-2018, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BumBum View Post
Not so much tossed, but consolidated together. You think the FPC/CGF anit-NRA/CRPA complex is bad now? Just wait until they are in the same case together. The in-fighting will surely set back our efforts.







How so? How do these cases figure to do any better than all of the others that have been recently rejected? This is not to mention that the "lose and appeal" strategy is not a good one. Duncan won their injunction, Weise did not. It's always better to be the one defending an appeal than to be the one bring it. Put the burden on DOJ, not gun owners. Weise should have never been filed, let alone prosecuted past the denial of the injunction.







But it does matter when the legal team behind a case are doing it either (1) incompetently, or (2) with questionable motives, like trying to stay relevant in a fundraising war. Or both. Bad cases make bad law.


Thanks, a more concise explanation of too many cooks spoil the soup.


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Old 01-31-2018, 9:59 PM
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Uh, well for starters, the cases I presented are in SCOTUS hands right now.

What’s really sad is that many of you are so consumed by your own postings, you don’t even know what’s in the courts or not. I don’t care if it’s NRA or SAF sponsored
You do realize that thousands of petitions for writ of certiorari are filed with SCOTUS every year and less the 3% are even granted for review, right? And SCOTUS has only reviewed two 2nd Amendment cases in this generation, the last one now being nine years ago,

Look, I have less of problem with Silvester and Teixiera. These appear to be well-thought out challenges, and not on issues duplicative of the efforts of any other organization. It is worth noting, too, that the legal teams handling Silvester and Teixiera are not the same as Wiese and Holt. Why the change in counsel? I don't know. But counsel in Wiese and Holt do not appear to have much (if any) prior experience in 2nd Amendment cases, unlike Don Kilmer who is on Silvester and Teixiera.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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You do realize that thousands of petitions for writ of certiorari are filed with SCOTUS every year and less the 3% are even granted for review, right? And SCOTUS has only reviewed two 2nd Amendment cases in this generation, the last one now being nine years ago,

Look, I have less of problem with Silvester and Teixiera. These appear to be well-thought out challenges, and not on issues duplicative of the efforts of any other organization. It is worth noting, too, that the legal teams handling Silvester and Teixiera are not the same as Wiese and Holt. Why the change in counsel? I don't know. But counsel in Wiese and Holt do not appear to have much (if any) prior experience in 2nd Amendment cases, unlike Don Kilmer who is on Silvester and Teixiera.
From what i see though, Teixiera was a less than stellar case and in Fabios words, "a real stinker"

They really messed up on this challenge since it was really a zoning problem and not so much a 2A challenge. You don't measure from the front door, you measure from the property lines.
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Old 04-17-2018, 6:29 PM
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You do realize that thousands of petitions for writ of certiorari are filed with SCOTUS every year and less the 3% are even granted for review, right? And SCOTUS has only reviewed two 2nd Amendment cases in this generation, the last one now being nine years ago,

Look, I have less of problem with Silvester and Teixiera. These appear to be well-thought out challenges, and not on issues duplicative of the efforts of any other organization. It is worth noting, too, that the legal teams handling Silvester and Teixiera are not the same as Wiese and Holt. Why the change in counsel? I don't know. But counsel in Wiese and Holt do not appear to have much (if any) prior experience in 2nd Amendment cases, unlike Don Kilmer who is on Silvester and Teixiera.


The George Holt Case is on hold until after a Hearing on April 19th in the NRA Case (Villaneuva) Case. Becerra has convinced the Judge that the NRA has framed the case incorrectly and doesn't have a legal leg to stand on without restating the case. Further, that the NRA Villaneuva Case is similar to the George Holt Case and the cases should be combined, expecially since the NRA Villaneuva Case is being reframed and now looks even more like the George Holt Case.

This is a good example of why it's important to have more than one group file complaints about bad laws. This strategy is no different that what the Opposition is trying to do to us. The "Whack A Mole Strategy".

Last edited by Heretodaygonetomorrow; 04-17-2018 at 8:42 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 7:05 PM
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From what i see though, Teixiera was a less than stellar case and in Fabios words, "a real stinker"

They really messed up on this challenge since it was really a zoning problem and not so much a 2A challenge. You don't measure from the front door, you measure from the property lines.
Might you find where Alameda County documented that is the way they were measuring?
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Old 04-18-2018, 9:13 AM
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Might you find where Alameda County documented that is the way they were measuring?
I heard it from a "source" and in the oral arguments. If my recollection serves me right. It was a while ago.

I'll add that being in construction for 30 years, zoning is measured per parcel/address and not to the front of a building access. The plaintiffs, if i'm accurate are now fighting this from a 2A persepective though.

Quote:
The Alameda County Planning Department informed
Teixeira, Nobriga, and Gamaza (collectively “Teixeira”) that
the 500-foot zoning requirement was to be measured from the
closest door of the proposed business location to the front
door of any disqualifying property. Relying on such guidance,
Teixeira settled on a suitable property on Lewelling
Boulevard in San Leandro.
Quote:
The
report explained that the County had chosen to measure from
the closest building exterior wall of the proposed site to the
closest residential property line rather than from door to door.

Last edited by taperxz; 04-18-2018 at 12:43 PM..
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