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  #1  
Old 04-16-2017, 6:25 PM
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Default Unsafe range???

Hey guys and gals, I want some opinions here, I'll leave out the name of the range to leave bias opinions out, if any.

My wife and I went shooting at an indoor range, we shot a few hundred rounds and was done, that was it , brought the target back and started looking over the target, just then, thwack!!!!! Something hits her in the high cheek hitting her safety glasses. I hear a noise and see her react grabbing her eye and cheek. I notice a cut under her eye and grab her close to bring her out to get first aid. It turns scary as she tells me she can't see and blood starts dripping thru her fingers.

By the time I reach the lobby a worker is there with a baggy of first aid and try to assist me. I ask what was it and he tells me a ricochet. Crap , it was scary. I then treat my wife, go to gather my guns and go to the ER.

I was told to call the owner on Monday or he's going to be calling me.

It's a nice shiner, a superficial cut, and she will heal.

I been thinking about it all day "convinced that it is a unsafe range. How can this possibly happen??

You should not be at risk if a ricochet as long as your doing the right thing.

Should the police be notified about this incident that could of killed or maimed her?

Then I go back to how unsafe is this place?

Why don't they have a proper first aid within steps of the ally?? I remember, There used to be a sign that said First Aid. Nothing there!

What is you guys thought in this.



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Old 04-16-2017, 6:31 PM
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Wtf what range was that?! You are so lucky you're posting about this instead of planning a funeral
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Old 04-16-2017, 6:32 PM
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A shiner? Really?
Sounds like more than the normal range ricochet to me.

I've even got a small cut once before, and facial cuts always bleed like a stuck pig, but never a shiner!
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Old 04-16-2017, 6:34 PM
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I wonder if their backstop is out of spec?
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Old 04-16-2017, 6:56 PM
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I have been struck by shrapnel. Ricochets can happen off heavy metal target hangers, motor housings, etc. Honestly, unless there's an alarming history or obviously bad design I think you just have to chalk it up to "S happens."
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Old 04-16-2017, 7:02 PM
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I am not trying to sound callas, but its a risk you take shooting in close proximity from others. You should be bringing your own first aid kit with you, even if its minimal. I am sure you singed or read a waiver. Glad your wife is ok. Safety glasses did what the are made to do.
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Old 04-16-2017, 7:08 PM
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It is worth talking to the range about their first aid equipment though. Also, carry at least some basic 1st aid essentials with you, quickclot included.
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Old 04-16-2017, 7:14 PM
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I dont see why you are leaving the name of the range out. Interested to hear what the owner has to say. If anything the range personnel should have first aid procedures ready for anything from a ricochet to someone getting strait up shot in their range. If all they has was a baggy of bandaids and alcohol pads, then that is very scary.

The very least, the owner should offer you something like free range time/membership at the range for what happened. If there are medical bills or cosmetic surgery needed, i would not post anymore on here and call a attorney.
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Old 04-16-2017, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Caligula36 View Post
The very least, the owner should offer you something like free range time/membership at the range for what happened. If there are medical bills or cosmetic surgery needed, i would not post anymore on here and call a attorney.

Thanks for sharing.


OP, I hope your wife heals quick.
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Old 04-16-2017, 7:23 PM
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Unfortunately it sounds like business as usual to me. With an indoor range there are a lot of incidental objects that can unfortunately send fragments back to the line. Especially if you have a douchebag next to u that inadvertently aims his pistol at God knows what.

Last edited by ShaneB; 04-16-2017 at 7:26 PM..
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Old 04-16-2017, 8:44 PM
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Someone may have been shooting hollow point or soft point ammo, which is not permitted at some indoor ranges. Range employees told me it's more likely to fragment when it hits the backstop.
At indoor ranges, I have been hit with bullet fragments and whole bullets. My GF was hit in the leg with a 45 ACP bullet that bounced off something else. Only left a bruise.
Once a bullet ricochets, it has lost most of its velocity & the only place it can do major damage is in the unprotected eye. That doesn't mean it can't cause bleeding....I said MAJOR damage. I don't consider a cut major damage. At one indoor range, I was shooting my 500 & a guy several lanes away complained to me that he was getting hit with bullet fragments from my gun & he demanded to see my ammo. I couldn't help but notice that neither he nor the idiot girls he was with were wearing ANY eye protection. In fact, the girls were hardly wearing anything. I spoke to the employees at the counter & reminded them about liability if they permitted shooters to shoot without eye protection. I guess the employees were too focused on the girls' outfits to notice.

Even at outdoor ranges, on one occasion, I've pulled a large section of copper bullet jacket out of my arm. It was embedded about 1/8 inch.

I always wear safety glasses that are specifically designed to be worn over my Rx glasses & have side protection. Glasses that don't offer side protection are insufficient, IMO.

Last edited by Win231; 04-16-2017 at 8:48 PM..
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Old 04-16-2017, 9:02 PM
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Glad to hear your wife wasn't seriously injured!

A buddy of mine got hit with a jacket from an FMJ round on a ricochet. Fortunately it didn't even break the skin.

Sometimes the the target hangers, even though angled, can cause a ricochet.

And honestly if OP lives in the Bay Area, I'm guessing it was at target masters. But that's just a guess.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2017, 6:17 AM
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Default Unsafe range???

this was the chunk of bullet , so it's a big *** chunk, that smacked her in the face. I haven't talked to the owner yet, so this is why a name and review of the range was left out. But it was Jackson arms.
That place looks as it's falling apart unfortunately, needs some serious money put back in if you ask me. But I like the place, I like the people that work there. I guess she took one for a free night shootingyeah those low *** shots are hers, I'm sure those could even cause a ricochet. But it shouldn't!!!!


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Old 04-17-2017, 7:05 AM
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Glad you're wife's injury was minor. While I think my range is safe (booth walls and back stops are rated for 50BMG) I have the luxury on going in the day time mid-week. There are fewer people and the ones there are typically more experienced. Weekends are the Wild West.
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Old 04-17-2017, 7:14 AM
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I am all for safety and people ensuring that the range and equipment readily available are suited for emergency situations.

However I am also a firm believer in our need to support any and all 2A or 2A friendly organizations and ranges. In saying that you should most likely deal direct with the owner and get your med bills covered and some alternate comp, maybe a free membership etc. Also if the range owner seems sincerely concerned and makes steps to investigate the how and why with the what we will do to fix it then I would do my best to work with them.

I truly truly hope this is not used for any financial gain like everything else now days. And calling the LEA locally will only be used as an opportunity for them to restrict and apply senseless additional regulations.
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Old 04-17-2017, 5:01 PM
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update?
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Old 04-17-2017, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Calico1404 View Post
I am all for safety and people ensuring that the range and equipment readily available are suited for emergency situations.

However I am also a firm believer in our need to support any and all 2A or 2A friendly organizations and ranges. In saying that you should most likely deal direct with the owner and get your med bills covered and some alternate comp, maybe a free membership etc. Also if the range owner seems sincerely concerned and makes steps to investigate the how and why with the what we will do to fix it then I would do my best to work with them.

I truly truly hope this is not used for any financial gain like everything else now days. And calling the LEA locally will only be used as an opportunity for them to restrict and apply senseless additional regulations.
I agree.
If you don't go to a range, you will never suffer a mishap there.
This fruit and nut state's politicians are trying to shut down the 2A.
All it takes is one inexperienced shooter to make a mistake to cause an incident at any range.
If we try to put all ranges out of business instead of correcting a problem, we are only hurting ourselves.

OP, I hope your lady is not seriously hurt and recovers.
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Old 04-17-2017, 8:55 PM
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Default Unsafe range???

You know I feel the same way my fellow shooters, we are lucky, but also mad, concerned, and curious. I left my info, my number, to see if the owner has any concerns on how my wife is. No response yet. If it was my range, I would of had a report made and I sure in the hell would follow up on the person that was hurt. I don't want to lessen our places to shoot, I like that place, but not if it's unsafe!!

If you think it's just part of going to a range, your an idiot!

If your standing in a safe zone, you shouldn't get hit in the face by a bullet!!

My wife is fine, other then she has a swollen right side of her face, a black eye and a cut that was dermabonded close, and two wholes in the side her nose.

Now, I had to see her cringe in pain, not knowing WTF just happened, blood poured through her hands in extreme pain. Think of your wife hurt, think of her crying in pain, think of your wife's beautiful face that looks as if I beat her ***! I'm a grown *** man, strong as ****, been thru some serious **** in life, and I cry when I think of this. Helpless as hell, crying in anger, cry cause I wish it was me, cry because it hurts me.

Now can she go to work in a fancy hotel looking like this, having to explain to everyone who asked what happened. That sux!

You think we're on an apology an explanation, a phone call would be nice, and 48hrs later, nothing!

Now show me you don't give a ****, and I will show the same! I bet most of you would feel the same.

I'll give him a chance all right, but if I have to call. I'm gonna be pissed.

Thx again for all the good wishes , I have read all the post and feel as most you do too.


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Last edited by felimen; 04-17-2017 at 9:02 PM..
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Old 04-17-2017, 9:04 PM
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I have witnessed jumping target carriers where idiots shoot the moving target frame and they can blast stuff back.....

Not sure what happened but glad she has on eye pro
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Old 04-17-2017, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I have witnessed jumping target carriers where idiots shoot the moving target frame and they can blast stuff back.....

Not sure what happened but glad she has on eye pro


Caught a ricochet to the face , eye is there because of safety glasses


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Old 04-17-2017, 9:21 PM
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Caught a ricochet to the face , eye is there because of safety glasses


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Yea I would be pretty effing pissed if my wife looked like that and I didn't get a phone call from the owner.

That's one of those "oh crap we better call the boss about this now and not leave him a note to see about it on Tuesday"

Glad your old lady is OK, it shouldn't have happened, but it did.
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Old 04-17-2017, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by felimen View Post
You know I feel the same way my fellow shooters, we are lucky, but also mad, concerned, and curious. I left my info, my number, to see if the owner has any concerns on how my wife is. No response yet. If it was my range, I would of had a report made and I sure in the hell would follow up on the person that was hurt. I don't want to lessen our places to shoot, I like that place, but not if it's unsafe!!

If you think it's just part of going to a range, your an idiot!

If your standing in a safe zone, you shouldn't get hit in the face by a bullet!!

My wife is fine, other then she has a swollen right side of her face, a black eye and a cut that was dermabonded close, and two wholes in the side her nose.

Now, I had to see her cringe in pain, not knowing WTF just happened, blood poured through her hands in extreme pain. Think of your wife hurt, think of her crying in pain, think of your wife's beautiful face that looks as if I beat her ***! I'm a grown *** man, strong as ****, been thru some serious **** in life, and I cry when I think of this. Helpless as hell, crying in anger, cry cause I wish it was me, cry because it hurts me.

Now can she go to work in a fancy hotel looking like this, having to explain to everyone who asked what happened. That sux!

You think we're on an apology an explanation, a phone call would be nice, and 48hrs later, nothing!

Now show me you don't give a ****, and I will show the same! I bet most of you would feel the same.

I'll give him a chance all right, but if I have to call. I'm gonna be pissed.

Thx again for all the good wishes , I have read all the post and feel as most you do too.
This might help you understand my anger
Best wishes to the little lady. Looks like it hurt a lot.
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Old 04-17-2017, 9:34 PM
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Thx man!


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Old 04-17-2017, 10:31 PM
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I think your anger at the facility may be a bit misplaced. How about the person who shot something other than the target and caused the ricochet? Yeah someone should have contacted you ASAP and that is inexcusable.

Like just about any range (indoor especially) there are things that can and do cause ricochet's, more often than not however that ricochet is caused by someone shooting something that they shouldn't be shooting.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:48 PM
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I think your anger at the facility may be a bit misplaced. How about the person who shot something other than the target and caused the ricochet? Yeah someone should have contacted you ASAP and that is inexcusable.

Like just about any range (indoor especially) there are things that can and do cause ricochet's, more often than not however that ricochet is caused by someone shooting something that they shouldn't be shooting.
I AGREE. If this is a common occurrence (Unsafe range) I would expect to see lots of scarred wall in the "safe zone". If the walls are not scarred then it was likely a "one of" caused by someone doing something dumb. I have been to outdoor ranges run by LEO's that had hundreds of bullet holes in the wall between the "safe zone" and the office. That was scary.

Even though this is likely a "One of" caused by a shooter doing something they should not have been doing, that does not excuse the lack of a phone call.

OTOH if the range has legal counsel in this day of everyone looking to get rich by lawsuit they would likely have been advised NOT to call.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:48 PM
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Damn bud all bad. Glad your lady is safe, no go for me at Jackson arms **** range long waits and they refunded to do ppt last year for a pistol said safe was full. No money for me at that spot, head down to Sunnyvale rod and gun club
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:56 PM
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Oh you want a picture of some scared walls and no money going back into the business? I see flat pillars that are shot to ****!


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Old 04-17-2017, 11:00 PM
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Default Unsafe range???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
I AGREE. If this is a common occurrence (Unsafe range) I would expect to see lots of scarred wall in the "safe zone". If the walls are not scarred then it was likely a "one of" caused by someone doing something dumb. I have been to outdoor ranges run by LEO's that had hundreds of bullet holes in the wall between the "safe zone" and the office. That was scary.

Even though this is likely a "One of" caused by a shooter doing something they should not have been doing, that does not excuse the lack of a phone call.

OTOH if the range has legal counsel in this day of everyone looking to get rich by lawsuit they would likely have been advised NOT to call.


If you read the thread correctly, you would see I'm not pissed at the facility!! I'm pissed this happens!!! And yes I'm a bit unhappy with the owner, but as you said, he has a lawyer, so do I. Now if I use it has a lot to do with how it's handled. So go read the thread all you 2a, save the range, in it for the money, hooting, and let's see if you gonna take your lady on a shooting date there now?

My apologies I read the post over again to my wife and I do agree with most all if not all.

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Old 04-17-2017, 11:08 PM
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I see flat surfaces...
Contributing to negligence = you enter a ricochet rich environment ( flat surfaces, missing catch curtains from 4 bays etc) and you elect to stay there and shoot...then when something happens...
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:27 PM
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Pictures of the roof are really sad. I see this in all indoor ranges. How untrained does one need to be to shoot the roof.

However the backstop in the picture looks pretty un maintained.

Don't get me wrong OP. What happened to your wife is scary and unacceptable. I'm just not sure where the blame should be laid.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:35 PM
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I am sorry that this happened to her. I can sympathize because my wife is a shooter and we check out new ranges all the time. However, if we were to walk inside a range and it looked like the one in the picture, we would have left and not shot there. Just saying.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Pictures of the roof are really sad. I see this in all indoor ranges. How untrained does one need to be to shoot the roof.



However the backstop in the picture looks pretty un maintained.



Don't get me wrong OP. What happened to your wife is scary and unacceptable. I'm just not sure where the blame should be laid.


I'm not sure either, that's kinda why I posted here, to get opinions, see what others had to say. Warn others that if this is the norm then it can happen to you or others.

We will see after I speak to the owner. But I will keep you informed.

You think the roof is bad? The diamond plate that separated the booth had a shot in it. Holy crap!!



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Old 04-17-2017, 11:52 PM
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I'm not sure either, that's kinda why I posted here, to get opinions, see what others had to say. Warn others that if this is the norm then it can happen to you or others.

We will see after I speak to the owner. But I will keep you informed.

You think the roof is bad? The diamond plate that separated the booth had a shot in it. Holy crap!!



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Everyone here ALREADY knows that place is a ghetto unsafe place to shoot at.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:53 PM
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Default Unsafe range???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtectThe2nd View Post
Contributing to negligence = you enter a ricochet rich environment ( flat surfaces, missing catch curtains from 4 bays etc) and you elect to stay there and shoot...then when something happens...


Well now I know! Ain't that a *****, my ol lady has to get tagged in the face to learn.
So you are saying it's a unsafe range??


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Old 04-17-2017, 11:56 PM
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Everyone here ALREADY knows that place is a ghetto unsafe place to shoot at.
Not everyone, but they do now!


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  #36  
Old 04-18-2017, 4:25 AM
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ProtectThe2nd ProtectThe2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felimen View Post
Well now I know! Ain't that a *****, my ol lady has to get tagged in the face to learn.
So you are saying it's a unsafe range??


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Sorry, I'm not qualified in range design, maintenance or upkeep requirements
But I see issues

Having said that...had I entered that range, it would have been a quick round trip back out...I see enough to raise the hair on the back of my neck

Sorry you're going through this, shooting is an activity which should require waivers be signed...what happened appears to be the careless act or worse of another
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  #37  
Old 04-24-2017, 2:23 PM
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I feel for your lady. But me & friends got hit with ricochet there before.
Albeit, not as bad as what she went through.

I think the place is a bit ran down, but since it's the closest place to shoot so I'd have to just accept it.

Make me think twice about this place though.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2017, 2:37 PM
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Glad to hear your wife was not seriously injured!

As for it being an "unsafe range" I would expect more evidence that it was unsafe before making that statement. The simple fact that she was hit with a ricochet does not make the range unsafe. It could have ricocheted off a target hanger, etc. The moron in the lane next to her might have hit the divider between the lanes, etc. Ricochets can happen on the best designed ranges unfortunately.

On the basis of your photos it looks like unsafe people using the range rather than range design necessarily.

Regardless, glad she is ok and that is scary. I hope all goes well with you speaking to the owner.
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Last edited by JCHavasu; 04-24-2017 at 4:02 PM..
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2017, 5:28 PM
sixoclockhold sixoclockhold is offline
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I hope your wife is recovering from what looks like a very serious injury.

I think one today should be able to expect a high degree of confidence that the establishment we deliver deadly projectiles is safe from these types of injuries.

I would sue the sheet out of them and close them down till a complete rehab and feasibility study has been done.
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Old 04-24-2017, 6:11 PM
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Been there on weekend nights and never again. Guy with a 12 gauge and no choke was spraying birdshot all over the place. Packed up after 10 min and left with a verbal complaint, they gave me my money back but didn't seem to care to kick the shotgunner off the lane. Ever since Leo left, the new young range officers plain don't give a F@ck, Javi still there but only works part time.
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