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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-21-2020, 3:15 PM
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Default Pinning aluminum muzzle device to 4150 CMV

How do I do this? My LGS says they can't do it. What is required? Tig? Mig?

In San Diego, would prefer someone local.
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Old 05-21-2020, 3:51 PM
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It can be done with low temp solder. Problem is, if you are are needing to pin/weld a muzzle attachment to bring a barrel to the legal 16” length, BATF requires I believe 1,100-1,200 degree Silver solder be used. This is right at or above the melting temp of the 6000 or 7000 series Aluminums needed for their strength.


Huh...maybe I do a thing or two about metallurgy. LOL!
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Old 05-21-2020, 4:00 PM
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Yes, it is to satisfy the 16" requirement. Putting a KAK on a 13.7" barrel.

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File Type: jpg kak.jpg (88.1 KB, 153 views)
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Old 05-21-2020, 4:09 PM
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I had an aluminum faux suppressor put on and they basically burned through the aluminum and puddled up a weld such that the muzzle device is trapped by the weld and cannot turn at all.


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Old 05-21-2020, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorge Retson View Post
How do I do this?
My LGS says they can't do it.
What is required? Tig? Mig?
In San Diego, would prefer someone local.
I drill a hole, drop in a steel pin and then an aluminum pin on top of the steel pin and then tig weld the pin to the muzzle device.
Most shops that are doing gunsmithing either do not HAVE an AC tig welder or simply will not weld aluminum.
Many shops either refer customers to me or the shops take the jobs in and bring them to me to do the work.

The BATF requirement for perm attach is that forceful removal of the muzzle device must damage the barrel beyond use.
That's why the steel pin goes in the hole first.
If you tried to forcefully remove the muzzle device, the steel pin will destroy the barrel like this:


An aluminum pin would shear off and NOT render the barrel useless so a perm attach job with only an aluminum pin would NOT pass the BATF test.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 05-21-2020 at 4:29 PM..
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Old 05-21-2020, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback View Post
It can be done with low temp solder. Problem is, if you are are needing to pin/weld a muzzle attachment to bring a barrel to the legal 16” length, BATF requires I believe 1,100-1,200 degree Silver solder be used. This is right at or above the melting temp of the 6000 or 7000 series Aluminums needed for their strength.
Silver solder will not adhere aluminum to steel.
The BATF requirement is 1100f but the commonly available hi-temp silver solders flow at 1200f.

Melting is sort of a requirement of welding.
Here is a picture of one of my aluminum perm attach jobs:
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Old 05-23-2020, 8:25 AM
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Interesting how important to the Atf .That the barrel be destroyed if you try to remove the muzzle device by unthreading it. I see the one pic of the twisted barrel. Did someone not have a drill , Cut off wheel Dremmel or half dozen other tools and methods. Or was that for demonstration purposes?
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Old 05-23-2020, 9:15 AM
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Un-popular Calguns opinion:

Do not comply. Thread whatever on & don't post pictures
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Old 05-23-2020, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer wright View Post
I see the one pic of the twisted barrel.
Did someone not have a drill , Cut off wheel Dremmel or half dozen other tools and methods.
Or was that for demonstration purposes?
The barrel was sent to me by a customer who didn't realize the muzzle device was perm attached and he forced the muzzle device off.
The fix was to cut off the damaged end, re-thread the barrel at the shortened length and then use a longer muzzle device to achieve 16" legal length.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The barrel was sent to me by a customer who didn't realize the muzzle device was perm attached and he forced the muzzle device off.
The fix was to cut off the damaged end, re-thread the barrel at the shortened length and then use a longer muzzle device to achieve 16" legal length.
That's crazy. To deform a barrel like that .
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:48 AM
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Aluminum and muzzle are kind of bad ideas/materials to put together IMHO. I don't know what type of aluminum the muzzle device is made of, but aluminum tends to bend easily unless its like forged. 6000 or 7000 aluminum maybe?

Bent aluminum muzzle device = muzzle strike + aluminum shrapnel

Is the weight savings worth it? Just a modest question?

Last edited by ScottsBad; 05-23-2020 at 10:56 AM..
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
Aluminum and muzzle are kind of bad ideas/materials to put together IMHO. I don't know what type of aluminum the muzzle device is made of, but aluminum tends to bend easily unless its like forged. 6000 or 7000 aluminum maybe?

Bent aluminum muzzle device = muzzle strike + aluminum shrapnel

Is the weight savings worth it? Just a modest question?
I bought the KAK before knowing it was going to be such a PITA to attach.
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2020, 6:03 AM
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Like many here, I can vouch for Randall's work. I've had several devices pinned. Very clean. Send it off or bring it to him.
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Old 05-24-2020, 7:29 AM
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Agreed, Randall does excellent work.

I’ve had him pin sight bases to barrels, and pin and weld muzzle devices.

Not once have I ever been disappointed by the results, his weld jobs always look professional.

I’ll continue using his services, especially since it seems to trigger the butthurt trolls on this forum.
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  #15  
Old 05-24-2020, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m16 View Post
Agreed, Randall does excellent work.

I’ve had him pin sight bases to barrels, and pin and weld muzzle devices.

Not once have I ever been disappointed by the results, his weld jobs always look professional.

I’ll continue using his services, especially since it seems to trigger the butthurt trolls on this forum.
And pretty much build EVERY single one of your uppers because you couldn’t. (Though you’ve FAKED it for years).
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