"By Appointment Only"

[1meanchevy]

First off let me say hello to all you guys on here, thanks for the help in the past, got a quick question.
So what is in this statement "By appointment only"??? Obviously, from what I have read, this seems to be the key to satisfying zoning issues in an R1 area.To put a long story short, Got all my FFL ducks (COE, Fictitious Buis, Sellers Permit, etc...) in a row, followed all guidelines, got my Local License in hand stating, "Valid for retail sale of firearms" yet ATF talks to someone down at the city and they say no "customers" allowed to enter my house... application denied. Obviously I'm not doing something right as there are three other home FFLs in my city, any help or advice is appreciated.

[gimmejr]

Are the 3 FFLs grandfathered in from some new law? Are the 3 FFLs in unincorperated areas of the city?

[1meanchevy]

Others (ffl's) are well within city limits, city zoning ordinance regarding home occupations aka. home businesses written in 1983, the homes of the other FFL's are no more than five years old.

[raydog]

Appeal the decision by atf as there are three in your town. Don't know why they called when u already had city license. Sounds fishy......internet sales, phone sales are the same thing, you do not need retail space to be a dealer. You can explain to your zoning that it's all going to be done online and phone with no stock on hand. I just went through the same thing and just got my home base ffl 07. I got all my info from ffl123.com and without that guide I would have had a hard time.

[1meanchevy]

So my city code states: 18.62.30 Conditions for Conditional use permit-- section B; such use does not constitute retail or wholesale sales with transfer of products to the buyer at the residential site.
Lost cause?? Or what?? FFL transfers aren't technically retail in the first place??

[AOIguns]

Originally Posted by 1meanchevy

So my city code states: 18.62.30 Conditions for Conditional use permit-- section B; such use does not constitute retail or wholesale sales with transfer of products to the buyer at the residential site.
Lost cause?? Or what?? FFL transfers aren't technically retail in the first place??

Even then you're providing a service and that constitutes a customer. Have you tried calling one of the other FFL's in your area and see what went right with them? It shouldn't be a lost cause if 3 others in your area have succeeded where you haven't.

[raydog]

if they had already issued a city permit with the proper wording why did they not catch it before issuing the city permit.

[1meanchevy]

The city official claimed he thought since it was an internet based buisness that there were no customers coming to my house, once he said he talked to the BATF guy he was made aware that an FFL dealer in essence, has to be available to the public .
and i don't think it would be in the best interst of the other FFL s in my town to offer anyhelp.

[AOIguns]

Originally Posted by 1meanchevy

The city official claimed he thought since it was an internet based buisness that there were no customers coming to my house, once he said he talked to the BATF guy he was made aware that an FFL dealer in essence, has to be available to the public .
and i don't think it would be in the best interst of the other FFL s in my town to offer anyhelp.

Would be worth asking. Also, conditional use permits are all about using an area zoned for one thing being used for another. It may be that's what their permits say. You may just have a noob who's going by the book till he knows better, as he should. The idea of not having customers in a residential area is so there isn't tons of foot traffic like a drug house. Being you're "by appointment only" it should fly. It's no different than a lawyer working out of a home office and consulting clients in his home. I could see not rocking the boat if it was just one, but if 3 made it through then something is up.

[1meanchevy]

Originally Posted by AOIguns

Would be worth asking. Also, conditional use permits are all about using an area zoned for one thing being used for another. It may be that's what their permits say. You may just have a noob who's going by the book till he knows better, as he should. The idea of not having customers in a residential area is so there isn't tons of foot traffic like a drug house. Being you're "by appointment only" it should fly. It's no different than a lawyer working out of a home office and consulting clients in his home. I could see not rocking the boat if it was just one, but if 3 made it through then something is up.

I actually brought up this topic verbadum. I said " My buisness will be no different than any other Architect, General Contractor, Artist, Lawyer, Notary, or appraiser who occasionally has clients over to Sign Contracts, Deliver Plans, Pick up art, or get something notarized, or appraised". He literally said " None of these people are allowed to have people over at their homes ever, period" SO thats what I'm working with, overzealous city superiority complex maybe?? I know its frustrating, I just don't want to mess things up for the other FFL's in my town by making a stink.

[AOIguns]

Originally Posted by 1meanchevy

I actually brought up this topic verbadum. I said " My buisness will be no different than any other Architect, General Contractor, Artist, Lawyer, Notary, or appraiser who occasionally has clients over to Sign Contracts, Deliver Plans, Pick up art, or get something notarized, or appraised". He literally said " None of these people are allowed to have people over at their homes ever, period" SO thats what I'm working with, overzealous city superiority complex maybe?? I know its frustrating, I just don't want to mess things up for the other FFL's in my town by making a stink.

I understand, but still. If 3 others have it and are suppose to be playing by the same set of rules then someone is in the wrong, and so far it seems to be the city clerk. He has a supervisor so I would up it a level.

[1meanchevy]

Originally Posted by AOIguns

I understand, but still. If 3 others have it and are suppose to be playing by the same set of rules then someone is in the wrong, and so far it seems to be the city clerk. He has a supervisor so I would up it a level.

Your right, my best friends father in law is a co. supervisor, so the call has gone in, we will see if I can get something done.

[rbetts]

Sac County might be a better place to have this type of Business. It works for us there.

[1meanchevy]

Wouldn't dream of taking any buisness away from my favorite FFL in the world at Golden State Tactical I just love dealing with petty local government bureacracy

[rbetts]

THanks for the prop, Sorry for your Cities lack of desire to create more business opportunities and tax revenue.

Knuckleheads!!

[AOIguns]

Any updates?

[1meanchevy]

I'm holding the paperwork for a refund of my application.....but I've come this far... I just don't know if I can afford the overhead of a commercial storefront