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  #1  
Old 04-25-2011, 4:45 PM
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Default Sig 226 or HK USP - EDITED - meant to say 226, not 229!!

I am looking to make another purchase in the next couple of days and was wondering what this wonderful community thinks regarding the Sig 226 and the HK USP. I want a 40 cal. I have shot the Sig 229 recently and liked it but can't find anywhere near me to shoot the HK.

Any owners of these firearms out there that are willing to give me their honest opinion? I would love all input. Thanks!!

Last edited by Newshooter; 04-27-2011 at 1:31 PM.. Reason: EDIT: Meant to say "looking at the 226"
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Old 04-25-2011, 5:26 PM
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never shot a sig before but i effing love my USP 9mm.
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2011, 5:26 PM
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I shot USP45 and I shot p229 in .40S&W.
After shooting them both, I went with my p226 in .40 as my first handgun.

P229 is a great gun, ergonomics are great; no manual safety, SA/DA, good weight. Great accuracy, and the gun looks great.

What were your previous guns?
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Old 04-25-2011, 5:30 PM
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It depends on you, if you have Large hands get the HK, medium to small hands the Sig.. Both are quality guns and ALWAYS buy what YOU like.. If you can, shoot them both before buying either....
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Old 04-25-2011, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfrj View Post
It depends on you, if you have Large hands get the HK, medium to small hands the Sig.. Both are quality guns and ALWAYS buy what YOU like.. If you can, shoot them both before buying either....
Med-small hands get the USP Compact. I am used to slim 1911's the fullsize HKs are too bulky for me. The USPc fits and feels great. I love my USP and my M9 which some claim to be the size of a 2x4, but to me its not as bulky as the full size HKs.
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Old 04-25-2011, 5:53 PM
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Both are good guns. I have a USP in 9mm and the wife just bought a Sig 226.

To me, the Sig has a better trigger. But the HK you can run cocked and locked in single action only. Sig is going to have a long (albeit tuned nicely) trigger pull on the first shot and then it goes to single action. I just finished a 4 day defensive handgun course and watched a guy struggle the whole time with that DA trigger pull. He never got it by the end of the course.

I run my HK in IDPA matches for fun. I love mine, and it's dead nuts reliable. Only one failure in probably 3000 rounds (and I think it was ammo related).

Either way, it's whatever is most comfortable to you. They are both good choices.
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:00 PM
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I guess you have read up on the spec of both pistols. Polymer vs. aluminum framed. USP will take more abuse then SIG which I think are more refined. Also like other said DA first shot takes alot to get used to period. Sig will have the better DA pull then USP if you want to work at it.
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:07 PM
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I should add that you will get more muzzle flip on the HK than with the Sig because if the weight. In 40, that will probably be a noticeable difference (even in 9mm it is noticeable).
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:12 PM
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I have medium sized hands and currently own an M&P9 and a FNP9. I like the interchangeable backstraps on both of these guns so I can personalize the fit. I am going to go and hold some of them tonight. I may just come home with a new toy!!
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2011, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Newshooter View Post
I have medium sized hands and currently own an M&P9 and a FNP9. I like the interchangeable backstraps on both of these guns so I can personalize the fit. I am going to go and hold some of them tonight. I may just come home with a new toy!!
If you have the money and u like them both, get HK then. Not that many people have them
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2011, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLuv View Post
If you have the money and u like them both, get HK then. Not that many people have them
Quite the opposite.. and if we're talking about the USP, its the most common H&K, especially in 40.

I owned a USP and it did feel great in my hand.. however, I'm not a huge fan of the recoil system. Don't get me wrong.. its great if you take your time with aimed shots.. but if you're trying to follow it up with rapid target re-acquisition.. the dual recoil spring makes it harder because it softens up the recoil by extending the time the recoil is spread.

Of all the H&Ks, I think the USP is the one that is finally at the price point I think these guns are worth. You can get a like new one at around $600 (as opposed to $700-$1000+) or less if you shop around enough and I've seen CDNN Investments sell their mags for $20 (only for 40 though).

If I had to choose between the two.. it'd be a tough one.. but I think I may favor a P229 just a little more.
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorenut View Post
Quite the opposite.. and if we're talking about the USP, its the most common H&K, especially in 40.

I owned a USP and it did feel great in my hand.. however, I'm not a huge fan of the recoil system. Don't get me wrong.. its great if you take your time with aimed shots.. but if you're trying to follow it up with rapid target re-acquisition.. the dual recoil spring makes it harder because it softens up the recoil by extending the time the recoil is spread.

Of all the H&Ks, I think the USP is the one that is finally at the price point I think these guns are worth. You can get a like new one at around $600 (as opposed to $700-$1000+) or less if you shop around enough and I've seen CDNN Investments sell their mags for $20 (only for 40 though).

If I had to choose between the two.. it'd be a tough one.. but I think I may favor a P229 just a little more.
Interesting...

Well OP, both are great guns but I love my p226
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2011, 6:45 PM
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Check out the HK P2000. It's a more recent design than the USP. My sub-compact P2000sk has been flawless in MANY thousands of rounds. Truly a gun I'd trust in life-threatening times. Swap out the backstraps for a better fit for average hand size. Completely ambidextrous too.

Not knowing your trigger preferences, I love the LEM trigger. No external safety, longish but light trigger (4.5#) for every shot, crisp reset. Ideal for a carry or defense pistol. The P2000 shares magazines with the USP Compact, 10 + 1 rounds in .40 cal. You can change the standard LEM (8#) to the lighter version by swapping two small springs, or order that version from HK.
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
Check out the HK P2000. It's a more recent design than the USP. My sub-compact P2000sk has been flawless in MANY thousands of rounds. Truly a gun I'd trust in life-threatening times. Swap out the backstraps for a better fit for average hand size. Completely ambidextrous too.

Not knowing your trigger preferences, I love the LEM trigger. No external safety, longish but light trigger (4.5#) for every shot, crisp reset. Ideal for a carry or defense pistol. The P2000 shares magazines with the USP Compact, 10 + 1 rounds in .40 cal. You can change the standard LEM (8#) to the lighter version by swapping two small springs, or order that version from HK.
I agree with this.. if I were to go with an H&K, I'd check out the LEM trigger. When it comes to DA/SA hammer-fired.. I don't think any company does it better than Sig.. but DAK vs LEM is still debatable. I wish they had a P2000 that was more in the size of USP full-size (barrel-wise).
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLuv View Post
...
P229 is a great gun, ergonomics are great; manual safety, SA/DA, good weight. Great accuracy, and the gun looks great...
No manual safety on the P229. Maybe he's refering to the decocker? Between the USP and P229, Id go with the Sig Sauer.
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Old 04-25-2011, 6:59 PM
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I've owned 2 USPs and 2 Sigs (226, 2022) in the past year, ended up selling both USPs.

Don't get me wrong, the USP is a great gun, but after a year of using them alongside my Sig's, I've decided they're just not for me.

The trigger on the Sig P226 just feels way better, and there's less muzzle-flip due to a slightly heavier frame. Those two reasons combined lead to better shot placement for me. Also, I never liked the placement of the slide catch / release on the USP's.

However, Ergonomically the HK feels great, especially if you have smaller hands. Nice and lightweight, Ambidextrous mag release, safety and de-cocker all-in-one is a plus.
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:20 PM
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I like the trigger on SIG better but for some reason I'm more accurate with USP. So are a lot of other people that I've found out.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2011, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
No manual safety on the P229. Maybe he's refering to the decocker? Between the USP and P229, Id go with the Sig Sauer.
Sorry type-o I meant "no safety"
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:36 PM
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I own the P229 in 40 and a HK45. I tried the USP in 9mm and didn't like the grip, the Sig was better. I only got the HK45 because the grip was a lot better in my hands than the USP. Check out which one is better in your hands after shooting a few magazines of each.
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:39 PM
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Both are great guns....I have the hk usp 45 and sig sauer navy p226.....both shoot very well no issues...great quality...just note that the hk accessories tend to be more expensive
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n0xname View Post
Both are great guns....I have the hk usp 45 and sig sauer navy p226.....both shoot very well no issues...great quality...just note that the hk accessories tend to be more expensive
But the mags seem to be more expensive on the Sig. Neither are cheap.
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:43 PM
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I have a USP 40 and it is awesome in every way but the trigger. It's the worst trigger in the world. It's bad trigger results in terrible accuracy. HK even put out a DVD on how to overcome the terrible trigger. It has a recoil absorber device which really works, I've found. I have a USP 45 and its trigger is much better, though.

I would get the P229; preferable a pre Obama model if you can. Sig has had some quality issues as of late.
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Old 04-25-2011, 7:56 PM
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Having owned both Sigs and HK. I went with HK USP. The HK just felt better in my hands and I shot better with it. The sig had the better trigger but the LEM on my USP really gives it a run for it's money IMO. You can't go wrong with either one.
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Old 04-25-2011, 8:35 PM
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When you bring up sigs vs hk it really is fan boy vs fan boy. Personally, when I bought my only .40, I went with the usp because I it was the first 40 I ever saw(was it the first .40 ever, i kind of remember that but im not sure) and has a fully supported chamber for reloading. So when I could afford one I bought it. I like the feel of mine, don't have an issue with the trigger and am very accurate with it but I havent fired the sig. I like my sig 2022 so I'm not anti sig although I'm not a big fan of the feel of the steel frame guns. My 2 cents YMMV
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Old 04-25-2011, 8:46 PM
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Im a BIG HK fan and USP owner...with that said. I would buy what feels best to you. Both should give you good reliability. HK will always be my choice...but I am starting to like Glock's because they have a proven history, most popular with US LE and is dollar for dollar a very good deal...I just don't like not having a hammer or manual saftey or decocker..but I can learn. I've owned every USP except the Elite model, If you get an HK add the match or LEM trigger and another 200.00 for parts and labor

Good Luck
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n0xname View Post
just note that the hk accessories tend to be more expensive
Also the rail is not standard 1913 or picatinny. In most cases you'll end up needing to buy an adapter.
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Old 04-26-2011, 1:23 AM
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DA/SA transition is a training issue most people at the range tend to load the gun up and rack the slide into SA. Then continue to fire until the mag is unloaded and repeat the process instead of shooting DA and a few SA and dropping the hammer.

Most people go with the route of doing what they think will give them the best results on their target down range to impress friends or other shooters. Train to be better at everything you suck at if it matters to you because things really start coming together the harder you make it on yourself.

This is kind of off topic but I played some paintball for the first time in a long time and I was surprised how much I was shooting weak hand to shoot people while avoiding being shot myself.

With all that said I don't think you'll be disappointed with either I personally think you should look at a P2000 over the USP if you go HK. If you go Sig try and get one with the frame made in Germany not the US. I didn't see your location but this guy yzernie a calgunner sells Sigs at a great prices. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=257865
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  #28  
Old 04-26-2011, 4:02 AM
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Default For shooting the Sig P229, for carry the USP compact

I've had both the Sig P229 in .40 and the H&K USP40c for about 10 years. A big difference between them is weight, with the Sig being about 8 ounces heavier. This makes the USP easier to carry, but the Sig handles recoil better. I think the Sig has the best trigger, and for me the Sig is more accurate. If you are not going to carry the gun, the Sig is the best choice.



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Old 04-26-2011, 5:42 AM
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I own the USP40.

The ergonomics feel right to me - I'm right-handed with smallish hands (at least for a 6'4" guy). The only deficiency, in my opinion, is the grip, which felt a little too angular. A Hogue wraparound rubber sleeve fixed that problem. Now it runs like it should. I've put 550 rounds through the pistol without a single failure. The thing is built like a tank.
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Old 04-26-2011, 8:01 AM
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I have shot both pistol and ended up buying the Sig P229 in .40S&W. I really disliked the grip on the USP. It felt like grabbing a cheese grater after a few hundred rounds. Although it is very aggressive and won't slip easily if its wet or while wearing gloves, I won't be doing niether and it just didn't feel good in the hands.

I didn't like the trigger as well, the Sig trigger felt much smoother (pretty much the entire P series). I did notice,like a few other Calgunners mentioned, that the grip is smaller for smaller hands on the H&K. I just bought the short trigger from Sig and swapped it out, problem solved.

And when you're ready and willing you can do this to your Sig. If you have any questions on how to do this just PM me.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=412515
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Old 04-26-2011, 9:57 AM
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I went with the H&K USP .40 as my first handgun a few years ago. Yes the above issues are true, about the grip and trigger, but you get used to it. As with all guns they each have their own pro's and con's. With that said I am still very pleased with the gun. It is very accurate and easy to clean.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:37 AM
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I do not have nor tried an H&K USP. But here is my experience with my Sigs. I could never get used to the double action pul and ended up selling the two I had. Then I purchased a P229 Elite. This one had the Short Reset Trigger (SRT). Wow, made a huge difference for me. Now, double action is just fine. I then got a Equonix P220 with the standard trigger. Got the same problem with my orginal Sigs I sold, which I now regret. I replaced the P220 trigger with the SRT trigger and I am loving it again. Good trigger and the decocker is a nice feature.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:57 AM
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Not to rehash everything again, I went with the HK USP compact because I can shoot better with it.

I'd advise going to the range to rent them to try them out, but most ranges do not have an HK to try. Well, at least the ranges around me.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:02 PM
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H&K USP hands down.

With a V1 trigger pack you can carry cocked and locked and bypass the first DA trigger pull. With an LEM trigger pack it works a lot like a Glock.

I've owned a USP before. The only thing I did not like about it was the magazine release. It is a tad goofy and will take a little getting used to. But everything else was wonderful.

While I have not owned a Sig before, I have owned a DA/SA gun that forced you to use the DA pull just like a Sig does. Never again! I've shot a lot of different Sigs that my buddies owned or carried because their department required it. Wasn't impressed at all.

After Glocks, and 1911s, USPs are my favorite gun.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorenut View Post
DAK vs LEM is still debatable.
No debate at all. The DAK requires that you completely release the trigger before it will reset. Making it a nightmare by any standard to master the trigger. The LEM trigger reset is better. It is definitely not short, but it is better. Neither is anywhere near as nice as a Glock, which has a really short reset by comparison to all the other Glock like triggers that I have tested

A short reset is critical aspect of any trigger. The less you have to move your finger in order for it to reset, the less your hand will move, the less your gun will move. Making mastering follow up shots much easier. If you have to completely release the trigger for it to reset you will be fighting your gun on your follow up shots. Making it a bear to master.

I cannot stand the DAK trigger because of the reset. If not for that I might like it. The LEM trigger reset, while shorter than the DAK, is still way too long for me to choose it over a Glock. As is the XD and the M&P. None of them are as bad as the DAK, but none are as nice as the Glock either. The M&P does have an aftermarket fix for their trigger reset from Apex. But the reset on the Glock is great right out of the box - and it has years of street proven reliability.

The trigger pack I do like on the USP is the V1. I like it because it can be carried cocked and locked, bypassing the first DA pull. Leaving you with a light short trigger pull with a light short reset each and every time. I would still chose a Glock or 1911 over it. But it is a great third choice option for me.

SIG DAK TRIGGER RESET
Notice that you do not hear the click of the reset until the trigger is all the way released. It would be better if the guy knew enough to stop where it clicks. But this is the best example I could find. So it will have to do.


GLOCK TRIGGER RESET


SLOW MOTION TRIGGER RESET LIVE FIRE (kind of a cool video)


If somebody would like to make a video showing the LEM, XD, XDM, M&P etc. trigger resets (stop releasing the trigger where it resets so we can see how far out it is) that would be great. All the examples I have seen are by people who really do not understand the concept of trigger reset.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 04-26-2011 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9unknown View Post
Also the rail is not standard 1913 or picatinny. In most cases you'll end up needing to buy an adapter.
That is for the USP ONLY. The P2000 and more recent all use industry-standard rails. Accessories like mag springs, night sights, etc. are priced on par with other major brands and just as available.

Last edited by Rivers; 04-26-2011 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:49 PM
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tacticalcity tacticalcity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
That is for the USP ONLY. The P2000 and more recent all use industry-standard rails. Accessories like mag springs, night sights, etc. are priced on par with other major brands and just as available.
Plus there are some really low profile adapters and high-end holster companies make their holsters with your adapter and light choice in mind. It really is not a big deal. Especially not will all the custom kydex holster makers out there. These days you can have your holster made to fit your exact setup. That didn't used to be the case.
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Old 04-26-2011, 3:26 PM
Ralgha Ralgha is offline
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Hi folks, long time lurker, first time poster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
If somebody would like to make a video showing the LEM, XD, XDM, M&P etc. trigger resets (stop releasing the trigger where it resets so we can see how far out it is) that would be great. All the examples I have seen are by people who really do not understand the concept of trigger reset.
I have a USP Compact LEM, and judging solely by the video you posted, it looks like a pretty similar reset length. I made a quick and dirty video of it:


I hate videos with all the extraneous BS that they put in them, so this is simple and quick. I cleared the pistol before making the video, and there's no talking or other junk (except good background music).
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Old 04-26-2011, 3:30 PM
starsnuffer starsnuffer is offline
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USP compact is my preference. I really wanted to like the sig (it's more affordable and metal) , but just couldn't get into it. I love my old german p220, but find the new stuff from sig lacking. Now that I've had the USPc in .40 for a while I wouldn't have it any other way. It's not the prettiest gun but it seems to follow me whenever I do any training and always sneaks into my range bag no matter what I intend to shoot.

-W
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Old 04-26-2011, 3:39 PM
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Target19 Target19 is offline
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All I can say is this sweet thing is ready and rostered.
SIG P229R Enhanced Elite!!!
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