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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:50 PM
sarabellum sarabellum is offline
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post

Can we agree that the problem isnt in how many show up, but in the efficacy of the objectives being chosen?
Indeed, planning, methodology, and execution will determine the results.
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:52 PM
C.W.M.V. C.W.M.V. is offline
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Georgia gun owners must be worthless too. Only 160 of them showed up in Atlanta.

Can we agree that the problem isnt in how many show up, but in the efficacy of the objectives being chosen?
Jesus that’s depressing.
However a Georgia gun owner has a lot less to worry about than we do.

I would agree that trying to get our kind in line is like herding cats.
As seen at the rally yesterday we can't stay on message.

But again, even if we did stay on message, too few want to get involved. Like Nikki said yesterday, if just 1% if Cali gun owners had gotten into collecting signatures for prop 63 we’d have crushed it, but we can’t even get 1% to get off the couch.
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2018, 1:07 PM
Bullets&Whitewalls Bullets&Whitewalls is offline
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[QUOTE=tenemae;21526278]Facts are facts. If you think facts scream racism, that's your problem not ours.


Thanks for further proving my point. “ not our problem “ instead of trying to find common ground amongst ourselves we again and again continue to seperate ourselves from within. It’s great you can take the time to look up curves to to make an argument, how about using that to help us out against the people that want to disarm us?
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2018, 1:16 PM
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What is your evidence that Mexicans are doing anything or perceive anything related to firearms ownership? What evidence do you have that Mexicans influence the outcome of any legislation in any statistically significant way vis-a-vis the majority?
They vote democrat in large numbers

Exit polls: California Latino turnout could break a record
Quote:
Exit polls suggest that 31% of the electorate was Latino. That would make them the largest ethnic (nonwhite) group to hit the polls.
Quote:
Hispanic voters favored Clinton over Trump by a wide margin. Seventy-one percent of the Latino vote went for Clinton, compared with just 22% for Trump.
Are you trying to imply it's not the democrats in office writing and passing the gun-control laws that have inspired the start of this very thread? I get it... you're trying to be inclusive... for teh feelz. But allowing people who just "show up" in this state to vote for more democrats and bigger government is not helping our second amendment rights. I can't believe I have to argue why voting democrat hurts gun rights.
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2018, 1:21 PM
sarabellum sarabellum is offline
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
They vote democrat in large numbers
You have not demonstrated nor can you demonstrate that "latino," "hispanic," or "Spanish" (as used by some ignorant quarters) is synonymous with Mexican. "Hispanic" is not a cognizable ethnic, racial, or national group. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19896/

What is your evidence that Mexicans are doing anything or perceive anything related to firearms ownership? What evidence do you have that Mexicans influence the outcome of any legislation in any statistically significant way vis-a-vis the majority?

See post 37 in this thread. Racial minorities, including the meaningless "hispanic" term, do not in any statistically significant manner determine the outcome of any legislation. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...3&postcount=37 70% of the voter turnout is white. The profile of the pro-disarmament voter is white and affluent.

An article entitled, "Continued Bipartisan Support for Expanded Background Checks on Gun Sales," contains the following conclusory statement, "While 66% of whites favor a federal database to track gun sales, this proposal draws more support from blacks (82%) and Hispanics (76%)." So, the majority of people favor registration of firearms.

According to the US Census Bureau there are 321 million persons in the US. Whites comprise 77.4% of the population or 248,454,000. Blacks comprise 13% of the population or 41,730,000. "Hispanics" whatever that means are 17% of the population or 54,570,000. Even combined, (Blacks and Hispanics comprise 96.3 mil), Whites outnumber Blacks and Hispanics by 2.58:1. Yet, you would conclude that the problem must be the minorities. The 66% of the whites, who favor gun control, are 149,072,400, and still out number the total population of Blacks and "Hispanics" by a ratio of 1.548:1. The wealthy dominant classes favor disarmament, 52% in favor vs. 45% opposed. That is the wealthy white dominant class moves politics for its benefit at the expense of the ability of the working class to defend itself, i.e. that is the nature of capitalism.

Next, we turn to the actual voter turn out. According to the US Census Bureau of the total person, who turn out to vote, this is the result: White 69.9% (60,869,000), Black 12.1% (10,687,000), Hispanic (any race) 11.4% (14,057,000). 66% of the White electorate favoring gun control is 40,173,540. Even if we combine the total Black and "Hispanic" voters (24,744,000) irrespective of their views on gun control, the White voters favoring gun control out number them 1.62: 1, and those white voters alone will always enact gun control measures irrespective of the minorities views on gun control at that moment.

So, when you say "they" are working against "our" gun rights, your premise is that people in some minority group are the source of the political ills of working class whites. That is deflection and scape goating.

Last edited by sarabellum; 04-15-2018 at 1:56 PM..
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2018, 2:02 PM
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You have not demonstrated nor can you demonstrate that "latino," "hispanic," or "Spanish" (as used by some ignorant quarters) is synonymous with Mexican.
I don't care about your pedantic definitions and neither do the pollsters. Jesus christ. People who cross into the US from the southern border overwhelmingly vote for democrats which translates into more gun control. Call that group of people whatever you want. Most reasonable people call them "Latinos", "Hispanics", or "Mexicans", mostly interchangeably. You can argue blue isn't a color because it exists on a spectrum, but reasonable people still use the word "blue" to mostly refer to a color we all agree is distinct from red. Go play identity politics on someone else's time. This has gotten ridiculous.
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  #47  
Old 04-15-2018, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
I don't care about your pedantic definitions and neither do the pollsters. Jesus christ. People who cross into the US from the southern border overwhelmingly vote for democrats which translates into more gun control. Call that group of people whatever you want...people call them "Latinos", "Hispanics", or "Mexicans", mostly interchangeably.
In other words, you have no evidence. Prove your assertions with data from the U.S. Census Bureau, a book of history or anthropology that you own, or a .edu source. You just invoked race. You cannot demonstrate with evidence and authority that "hispanic" is synonymous with Mexican. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19896/ Eugenicist logic is not a substitute for informed reasoning.

What is your evidence that Mexicans are doing anything or perceive anything related to firearms ownership? What evidence do you have that Mexicans determine the outcome of any legislation in any statistically significant way vis-a-vis the majority?

According to the US Census Bureau there are 321 million persons in the US. Whites comprise 77.4% of the population or 248,454,000. Blacks comprise 13% of the population or 41,730,000. "Hispanics" whatever that means are 17% of the population or 54,570,000. Even combined, (Blacks and Hispanics comprise 96.3 mil), Whites outnumber Blacks and Hispanics by 2.58:1. Yet, you would conclude that the problem must be the minorities. The 66% of the whites, who favor gun control, are 149,072,400, and still out number the total population of Blacks and "Hispanics" by a ratio of 1.548:1. The wealthy dominant classes favor disarmament, 52% in favor vs. 45% opposed.

According to the US Census Bureau of the total persons, who turn out to vote, this is the result: White 69.9% (60,869,000), Black 12.1% (10,687,000), Hispanic (any race) 11.4% (14,057,000). 66% of the White electorate favoring gun control is 40,173,540. Even if we combine the total Black and "Hispanic" voters (24,744,000) irrespective of their views on gun control, the White voters favoring gun control out number them 1.62: 1, and those white voters alone will always enact gun control measures irrespective of the minorities' views on gun control at that moment.

Last edited by sarabellum; 04-15-2018 at 2:35 PM..
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  #48  
Old 04-15-2018, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
They vote democrat in large numbers
"They" are not present in large enough numbers to carry the day alone - the fact is that most caucasian Californians vote democratic and that's why Californians have created the California they enjoy today.

Blaming the outsiders is disingenuous.

I just hope Californians stay in the mecca they have created and leave the other 49 alone.
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  #49  
Old 04-15-2018, 3:34 PM
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"They" are not present in large enough numbers to carry the day alone - the fact is that most caucasian Californians vote democratic and that's why Californians have created the California they enjoy today.
The data refutes you. Considering only caucasians, the data indicates that the political distribution is nearly equal. Registrations are split, and when polling "political ideology", more lean conservative. The data indicates consertiavite values would prevail more often than not.
Race and Voting in California

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Originally Posted by Deedle View Post
Blaming the outsiders is disingenuous.
Even if I grant your premise that caucasian liberals outnumber caucasian conservatives (which they don't), it sounds an awful lot like your argument is "Since the enemy outnumbers us 55:45, it doesn't matter if the enemy illegally imports troops to boost their ratio to 70:30"
Because I'd gladly fight the 55:45 fight any day of the week compared to the 70:30. You're just wrong. Even if it weren't why we lost our gun rights in the first place, it will absolutely be the reason we will never get them back
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  #50  
Old 04-15-2018, 5:35 PM
sarabellum sarabellum is offline
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post

Even if I grant your premise that caucasian liberals outnumber caucasian conservatives (which they don't), it sounds an awful lot like your argument is "Since the enemy outnumbers us 55:45, it doesn't matter if the enemy illegally imports troops to boost their ratio to 70:30" Because I'd gladly fight the 55:45 fight any day of the week compared to the 70:30. You're just wrong. Even if it weren't why we lost our gun rights in the first place, it will absolutely be the reason we will never get them back
Tenemae is mistaken. A moment ago, Tenemae urged everyone to reject polls and any data. Now, Tenemae turns to a poll, "SOURCES: Eight PPIC Statewide Surveys from September 2016 to July 2017, including 8,528 likely voters." Read post 37. We do not know whether there is a representative sample based on income, race, class, voting record, membership in a party, religion, or union membership.

The PPIC summary of its poll concludes, "Latinos represent 34% of the state’s adult population but account for only 18% of those most likely to vote." It does not mean that "hispanics" or "latinos" actually have a voter turnout greater than that shown by the U.S. Census Bureau. According to the US Census Bureau of the total person, who turn out to vote, this is the result: White 69.9% (60,869,000), Black 12.1% (10,687,000), Hispanic (any race) 11.4% (14,057,000). 66% of the White electorate favoring gun control is 40,173,540. Even if we combine the total Black and "Hispanic" voters (24,744,000) irrespective of their views on gun control, the White voters favoring gun control out number them 1.62: 1, and those white voters alone will always enact gun control measures irrespective of the minorities views on gun control at that moment.

Tenemae's PPIC poll does not indicate that California's "hispanics" or "latinos" represent anything greater than the 11.4% of the voter turnout, as indicated by the U.S. Census Bureau. The PPIC article taking information from the Secretary of State's voter registration rolls explained, "The share of registered voters who are Democrats (44.8%) is up slightly from 2013 (43.9%), while the share of Republicans (25.9%) has declined since 2013 (28.9%)."

Non-whites have a general lesser voice in the political process in California, "Racial disparities deepen when we examine gaps between all California voters and all California adults, not just adult citizens. Consider the last presidential election in 2012 (Figure 1). 62% of white adults and 61% of black adults living in California had a say in that election, while only 50% of Native Americans, 43% of Pacific Islanders, 35% of Asian Americans,and 32% of Latinos did." "Unequal Voices: California’s Racial Disparities in Political Participation," (University of California, Riverside, 2016), pp. 9, citing the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2012 Current Population Survey Voter Supplement.

California has 18.2 million registered voters. Of those, in 2012 there were "5.9 million eligible Hispanic voters in California, 26% of all eligible voters in the state." Of those "hispanic" registered voters, only 32% turn out to vote according to PPIC, or 1,888,000 vs. 11,785,000 registered white voters of whom 66% turn out to vote or 7,778,000, as demonstrated by theWilliam C. Velasquez Institute citing to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Whites compose the majority of the actual voters. The 1,888,000 "hispanic" voters cannot turn the tide against 11,758,000 white voters on any contested matter in California. That any non-whites might vote democratic reflects California's pro-Democrat environment. The general electorate is more concerned with issues other than arms, e.g. transgender bathroom access, the Kardashians, sexual follies in the White House, sexual harassment 20 years ago, and a sexually suggestive T-shirt in school. It is a frivolous society. Minorities do not a owe a greater civic duty of being informed and active.

Among Tenemae's various premises is that "hispanics" are a problem, because at least half of their registered voters may likely vote for a democratic candidate and, thus, "they" are the cause of the social ills afflicting working class whites (i.e. poor). A fallacy in that premise is ratification of the two party duopoly:
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.
Chomsky, Noam, The Public Good, pp. 43.

Of course one of two parties will receive votes- there are only two parties. Rather than claim minorities are polluting the "purity" of the dominant culture, court the "hispanic" vote on the issue of arms and why it should be important to the "hispanic" voter. That entails learning about who or what the "hispanic" populations are, what their cultures are, and what their histories are.

Last edited by sarabellum; 04-15-2018 at 6:25 PM..
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  #51  
Old 04-15-2018, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Abenaki View Post
Most gun owners don't vote!
The ones that do......half of them vote to take away your guns!!!!

Take care
Abenaki

Truth. I was in a gun store in Antioch after one of the elections and guy came in all ranting and raving about how these people got elected and now they're going to take everyone's guns away!

I asked him how he voted and he answered Democrat.

The rest of us in the shop just looked at him. Why? I asked.

Because my rep said it would be good for the union.



And that's why we lose time after time. We vote for what's good for someone else, not for us.
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  #52  
Old 04-15-2018, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Abenaki View Post
Most gun owners don't vote!
The ones that do......half of them vote to take away your guns!!!!

Take care
Abenaki
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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
This.
agreed

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Originally Posted by Deedle View Post
Seems like most CA gun owners have other issues more important to them they base their vote on.
They vote for Democrats who will take that handgun one day. They vote for Democrats who will take that shotgun they have. They vote for Democrats who will take that hunting rifle away. Then they'll vote for Prop 63 to take your magazines away (not yet injunction still in place.) make it illegal to buy ammo online delivered to your home. make it illegal to buy ammo out of state and bring it back.

Those are the very gun owners who are on this board did. They don't care until in affects the gun they own. When that happens no one will be allowed to speak out against it. Because the means to resist have been removed.
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  #53  
Old 04-15-2018, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by aklon View Post
Truth. I was in a gun store in Antioch after one of the elections and guy came in all ranting and raving about how these people got elected and now they're going to take everyone's guns away!

I asked him how he voted and he answered Democrat.

The rest of us in the shop just looked at him. Why? I asked.

Because my rep said it would be good for the union.

And that's why we lose time after time. We vote for what's good for someone else, not for us.
American politics are issue driven, not ideologically driven. There are only two parties. There are issues of greater concern other than arms for the majority of the population. The union matter for the rank and file appears to be a bread and butter issue of supporting elected officials, who are perceived, albeit wrongly, as favoring legislation enabling collective bargaining for wages, benefits, and working conditions. The rank and file members in any union are not aware, that the unions support candidates, like the Clintons and John Kerry, who support legislation eroding job security like NAFTA. That is to say that working people vote against their own class interest, irrespective of whom they support, as free trade agreements outsource production and receive bipartisan support. Early, Steve, Embedded with Labor, (Monthly Review Press, 2009), pp. 188-192.

For the union member is it unlikely that any Democratic or Republican official will run on a platform of democratizing production and expanding armament for the workers. Arming proletarians is not in the interest of the dominant class. American workers made a bargain conceding any kind of struggle to democratize society, and in exchange both parties will permit unionized workers to bargain for the conditions of their exploitation not eradicate it. Id. at pp. 39 (American labor pays lip service to the idea that it seeks "bread and roses, too"-a hgher standard of living plus the chance for workers to enjoy the finer things in life . . . ) and 160 ("In some nations — like Korea, South Africa, France, and Spain — where strike action helped democratize society, general strikes are still being used for mass mobilization and protest. In recent years, millions of Europeans have participated in nationwide work stoppages over public-sector budget cuts, labor law revisions, or pension plan changes sought by conservative governments . . . In America, meanwhile, 'major' work stoppages have become a statistical blip on the radar screen of industrial relations."). Workers are not class conscious enough to see arms and armed revolt as being their sole mechanism for democratizing society. If they do ever developing class consciousness, arming themselves will not be had by permission of two parties of capital. Workers will do it by force.

Last edited by sarabellum; 04-15-2018 at 7:07 PM..
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  #54  
Old 04-15-2018, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Beendare View Post
Why is it that we have so many legal gun owners in CA...and we get treated like Red headed step children?

I have to think that if we could organize ALL gun owners we would have a pretty powerful lobby.

I can think of a couple examples; My bro in law...refuses to vote but then whines about the roster. I talked to a millennial at the range the other day...same story....doesn't vote, he doesn't want to get called for jury duty.

Are we as gun owners literally shooting ourselves in the foot due to apathy...or are my numbers off?
In answer to your question, Because the public educayshun system, and the msm don't push the constitutional agenda
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2018, 2:08 AM
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Well it would help if we didn't have certain groups voting.
On a federal LvL atleast.
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Old 04-16-2018, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Beendare View Post
Why is it that we have so many legal gun owners in CA...and we get treated like Red headed step children?

I have to think that if we could organize ALL gun owners we would have a pretty powerful lobby.

I can think of a couple examples; My bro in law...refuses to vote but then whines about the roster. I talked to a millennial at the range the other day...same story....doesn't vote, he doesn't want to get called for jury duty.

Are we as gun owners literally shooting ourselves in the foot due to apathy...or are my numbers off?
I'll state the obvious...

I think allot of members vote.. it just that we're in the middle.

We enjoy our "Sport".. it's NOT a way of life for us. For many here the 2A is their professed "Way Of Life"... "God Given Right"... for others not so much!

For many of us parading around with a weapon in front of the state house or city hall is not the answer to getting those non gun owners to become supporters or even sympathetic . To them (the non gun owners) Its scary!

It provides them with the visual "proof" that "All gunowners are extream". Which you and I know isnt the truth at all.. but it plays into their narrative of the "Gun Nut" brandishing their guns.

I think the die has been set... The 'Dont guive an inch" resistance to change in gun laws.. has spawned an equally intractable backlash...

I'll crawl back under my rock now...
EDIT:..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speaker in Austin Tx this weekend
“The Second Amendment in my opinion and the opinion of many is for killing tyrants! It’s about defending this country and this people and this land against an overly aggressive government. It’s about time we start talking this way. When they say, ‘Do you need an AR-15 to kill deer?’ you say, ‘No!” he yelled.

“It’s for killing tyrants!”

When asked to name the tyrants, Kopacz said it was too long of a list. “I don’t think it would be fair to name a few, there are many of them,” he said, adding that the list included elected officials.

“There are some in office right now, there are some that have been in office. We are seeing a systemic lack of respect for the constitution as a whole.”
I believe in YOUR rights to the 2A... I'm a sympathetic believer... but the above gives me pause...

Last edited by BitViper; 04-16-2018 at 6:06 AM..
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  #57  
Old 04-16-2018, 5:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
Call that group of people whatever you want. Most reasonable people call them "Latinos", "Hispanics", or "Mexicans", mostly interchangeably... Go play identity politics on someone else's time. This has gotten ridiculous.
So does the American Government.

Current as of 2001 insofar as the Government...

Quote:
"Hispanic Americans," which includes persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Central or South American, or other Spanish or Portuguese culture or origin, regardless of race;
As noted by the Federal Register in 1997...

Quote:
...Hispanic is commonly used in the eastern portion of the United States, whereas Latino is commonly used in the western portion...

The term ‘‘Hispanic’’ refers to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish
cultures...

Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, ‘‘Spanish origin,’’ can be used in addition to ‘‘Hispanic or Latino.’’
From the U.S. Census Bureau...

Quote:
Hispanic origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person’s parents or ancestors before arriving in the United States. People who identify as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be any race.
Just remember, 'race' and 'ethnicity' are two, entirely different, concepts and the term 'race,' as it applies to humans, is, scientifically-speaking, used incorrectly; both terms now being considered "social constructs." Since 'race' is now considered to be 'racist' in application, other terms are more often utilized.

However, you will note on Form 4473 that you have Question 10 with an "a" or "b" option; "a" being Ethnicity and "b" being Race. Why? Because it allows for "mixed race/ethnicity" responses; which is why the instructions stipulate that both 10a and 10b must be answered. We wouldn't want to racially/ethnically discriminate.

Of course, such pedantry is part of why we now have the California Driver's License exam offered in something like 30 or so languages, why ESL requirements can be a nightmare (not to mention impractical and hideously expensive) in schools, courts, etc., and why statistics are even more muddled than they used to be when broken out by race/ethnicity.

It's just another part of the overall culture war. We used to have the 'melting pot.' One could take a microscope and identify the component ingredients of the 'ingot' produced. Today, the 'tossed salad/salad bowl' or 'cultural mosaic' or 'multiculturalism' being taught and promoted. Not only does the latter hinder and, in some cases, even preclude assimilation and Americanization (depending on how one defines that), but it makes 'dividing' the population much easier; whether the intention be divisiveness or marketing or social programs, etc.

In the end, you are correct. It is also often used to 'distract' and 'derail' a discussion in a manner similar to using "loaded" words which immediately invoke predictable 'understandings' in readers; e.g., "too many beans in the burrito." You know, kinda like how Wikipedia defines "Internet troll" or "trolling behavior"...

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...a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement...
Just something to consider in that, somewhere in that mess of extraneous detail or use of provocative terms, there are often kernels of "truth" and legitimate points; no matter how one-sided or provocative they may seem or even "be."

ETA: Then you end up with people wondering why we have "so little power."

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 04-16-2018 at 6:01 AM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BitViper View Post
I'I believe in YOUR rights to the 2A... I'm a sympathetic believer... but the above gives me pause...
It should give you pause. Because that's the exact reason the 2A exists. Sport shooting, hunting, and collecting militaria are ancillary benefits. The very first section explains it all, and shows WHY military grade weapons are supposed to be in the hands of the populace. In the 1939 Miller vs. US case the US government's argument was that military weapons ARE protected under the 2A.

Note this from the the majority decision:

Quote:
The Court cannot take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, and therefore cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees to the citizen the right to keep and bear such a weapon.

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense.
The Austin speaker is correct.
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Dude went full CNN...
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Old 04-16-2018, 8:17 AM
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Conservatives don't stick together and fight the enemy. That's why we have so little power here in cali.
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Old 04-16-2018, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tango_Down View Post
There are layers to gun owners.

1). Regular shooter- Up on all of the gun laws changing and actively fights to keep them. Active on gun forums.
2). Shooter - Somewhat aware of gun laws changing. Occasionally is on a gun website.
3). Owns guns but is unaware of gun laws. Is never on a gun website.
4). Own a couple guns. Hasn't shot in years. - Thinks no one needs an AR15 ever.
And those in group number one are increasingly leaving the state to escape the apathy, ignorance, and denial of the 2-3 groups that are helping to destroy RTKBA in CA. In a free state group 1 actually has a voice and can preserve the 2A in the state.
Look at the candidates for Gov in ID right now, 2A is right at the top of the discussion list. It's awesome and refreshing to hear them campaign for 2A. This "issue" even trickles down into other loacal and national races in the state. For instance the bio of a candidate for US congress has this in here bio, \



"Biography
Perry earned her B.A. in political science from Boise State University. Her professional experience includes owning a gun shop, working in the marketing division of the Idaho Department of Agriculture ..."

Do you think a candidate in CA could even get on the ballot with that bio??





.
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Last edited by zonzin; 04-16-2018 at 8:25 AM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 8:45 AM
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Not every gun owner in CA is a single issue 2a voter, in fact I'd bet most of them are NOT.
This.

Also, as somebody who spends a good bit of time in the Capitol, the pro-2A side is terribly represented there. As I've said on other threads, the "no compromise" style doesn't work in Sacramento, especially when you don't have much juice. It just ensures you aren't even invited to the table and, after years of this posture, can't even get any of your natural allies to represent you at the table, which is what has worked in other blue or purple states.

For instance, in other states, you usually have enough gun stores active in the various small business associations and local chambers that they will occasionally/often get involved on the pro-2A side. Here, they can't afford it because you have certain groups that will damage legislator relationships with their posture and tactics.

Of course we get bad 2A legislation here because there are never any pro-2A groups in the room and not even moderate Dems (you need the Reps and Mod/New Dems to block bad bills) have anything to fear because the business community and other interests will no longer carry their water.
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:39 AM
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A short time-out for a little “tidying up.”
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Originally Posted by nate76239 View Post
See the thread about the rally at the capitol, it doesn’t seem like enough give a sh$&. One of the speakers there was Nicky from pink postols and mentioned something about the gay community having about 80% who are active voters, imagine if that percent of gun owners were active voting. Another speaker talked about the number of representatives in our state senate and assembly are around 80 each so they have not grown in proportion to our population.
Assembly has 80; Senate has 40. It is unfortunate that the speaker wasn’t more accurate.
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Incumbents... get to retire after eight years on a full pension.
That seems inaccurate.
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California does not provide pensions for legislators who took office after 1990.
https://ballotpedia.org/California_S...lature#Pension from http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...rds/50523328/1

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Originally Posted by pdq_wizzard View Post
Your BIL needs to give up his driver's license, because that's where they get jurors now.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
That may help, but other sources along with voter registration, DLs and other sources can used. CA Code of Civil Procedure 197.
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(a) All persons selected for jury service shall be selected at random, from a source or sources inclusive of a representative cross section of the population of the area served by the court. Sources may include, in addition to other lists, customer mailing lists, telephone directories, or utility company lists.
(b) The list of registered voters and the Department of Motor Vehicles’ list of licensed drivers and identification cardholders resident within the area served by the court, are appropriate source lists for selection of jurors
. These two source lists, when substantially purged of duplicate names, shall be considered inclusive of a representative cross section of the population, within the meaning of subdivision (a).
Time in....play on.
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by aklon View Post
Truth. I was in a gun store in Antioch after one of the elections and guy came in all ranting and raving about how these people got elected and now they're going to take everyone's guns away!

I asked him how he voted and he answered Democrat.

The rest of us in the shop just looked at him. Why? I asked.

Because my rep said it would be good for the union.



And that's why we lose time after time. We vote for what's good for someone else, not for us.
THIS. All the idiot "liberal" gun owners who have no idea what the word "liberal" actually means. They are actually clueless left-wing fascists who have no problem with the government taking away the rights of citizens.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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Lots of good commentary....and thx to Sarabellum for the long post with stats and thoughtful commentary.

So its not as bad as I thought. I think we have the numbers to effect change...the question is; How?

We know we aren't going to change gov Moonbeams mind. I belong to a chapter of SCI with members that met with him on a fishing trip to discuss this topic along with hunting.

whomever stated <correctly> that changing these small number of politicians minds nailed it- not going to happen.

I think there are a few things that need to happen; Numero uno is to get some numbers behind us.

Then we can go to outfits like [example] KCBS and state we are boycotting their station with these millions of listeners because they; 1) paint legal gun owners in a bad light and 2) they don't highlight the many defense with a handgun that happen daily.

I just don't see 'marches' being the solution. If we strike at these liberal media outlets and hit them in their pocketbook...that should help.

The other thing that I think is essential is we need to sway the undecideds. There are so many folks in Ca that have never shot a firearm. So when the media makes them out to have some mythical evil power....they believe it.

By showing the undecideds that legal gun owners are reasonable respectful folks that are GOOD for society....they should come around to our way of thinking.

We have some work to do.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:41 AM
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I had no idea gun owners did not vote. I vote every election. Yes I got called for jury duty once in 20 years. Vote people! It is a essential part of who we are. We are powerless because so few vote. Let’s be real. Yes a a lot of democrats want to disarm us. On the other hand Trump has done absolutely dick to help us. He has left it to the individual states to decide. So show your power and vote!
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:35 PM
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Don't worry about Trump and guns.....

Go on youtube and look for the Kuiu sheep hunting vid where Jason and Don Jr do a sheep hunt together...good vid...and don Jr makes a great shot on a ram.

Here you go, "Marathon of Dreams"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wNVqJzlDaw
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Old 04-16-2018, 7:38 PM
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From Physics:
Power = Work / time
(Increase Work and reduce time to maximize Power)
Where Work = Force x distance
(Apply more Force and go the distance to maximize Power)
Where Force = mass x acceleration
(Grow mass/weight and acceleration to increase Power)

Power = mass x acceleration x distance / time

... OK, I think you are getting, right. In short, you have to put energy on target folks.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:41 AM
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Until the Educational System starts teaching the "Republic" and what it means to be a Citizen of the Republic, we are screwed. We have several generations that have no idea as all they get is the world according to Karl Marx.

Those High School Kids that marched, they had no idea, what they were doing, their failed education system, wants it that way.
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