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  #1  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:04 PM
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Default Bogus Guns In Call of Duty Black Ops

I was expecting to see a lot more ranting and raving about the fact that they included lots of guns that did not exist in the timeline in which the game takes place. The game would have been so much better if the designers did their research and included real vietnam era guns and variants of those guns instead of including weapons invented many, many years later.
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Old 12-29-2010, 1:58 PM
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Reuse existing assets I guess. I mean flamethrower effects implemented in in COD WAW. low and behold, flamethrower as rifle attachment. Everyone stopped taking the franchise seriously after knife throwing and dual wielding. We all know its hollywood
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Old 12-29-2010, 2:05 PM
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fictional elements to a fictional story - (insert ironic remarks here)
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Old 12-29-2010, 2:32 PM
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cause it is a video game. sure we can complain but in the end, there is only a small group of people that for one, even notices these inaccuracies, and two, cares enough.
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Old 12-29-2010, 2:32 PM
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Translation, lazy mo-fos too busy chasing a dollar to do their jobs right.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:02 AM
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I would much rather experience a game that puts me in a combat world of fiction and fun, than a game that puts me in a combat world of real danger, exhaustion, boredom, fatigue and frustration.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by stormy_clothing View Post
fictional elements to a fictional story - (insert ironic remarks here)
it was fictional?! aww heck, i thought that kennedy, castro, nixon and mcnamara, all fought zombies together. oh well back to the real life game....Pac-man
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:08 AM
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If you want history read the encyclopedia, if you want entertainment play a game.
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  #9  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:07 PM
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Translate that to movies. Would you rather watch war movies like GI JOE or BLACKHAWK DOWN? Which is a better movie and why? Research and attention to detail can and do make or break a film or game.

You guys are so completely full of it your eyes are brown. What is worse you know you're full of it. You would never have purchased this game on its own merit. Because it doesn't have any. You did so because of the games that came before it and the games that came before paid at least some attention to detail.

It is a complete and utter cop-out to say "it is just a game" or "it is just a movie". That attitude will result and has resulted in crappy games nobody wants to play and movies nobody wants to see. The only way we get good games and movies is by complaining when they cheat on the research and skimp on the realism. This is a billion dollar business, and if they want to keep making top selling games that set selling records every single time, they are going to have to do more to live upto the Call of Duty name next time around. This one may be a huge seller now, but I would bet good money if they repeat this kind of laziness on the next one it won't be as successful, because a lot of gamers are beyond disapointed in this game. They bought it because the pervious games were so great. Not because of anything this game had to offer on its own. That is going to kill the next games sales unless that game is a marked improvement.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 12:21 PM..
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Translate that to movies. Would you rather watch war movies like GI JOE or BLACKHAWK DOWN? Which is a better movie and why? Research and attention to detail can and do make or break a film or game.

You guys are so completely full of it your eyes are brown. What is worse you know you're full of it. You would never have purchased this game on its own merit. Because it doesn't have any. You did so because of the games that came before it and the games that came before paid at least some attention to detail.

It is a complete and utter cop-out to say "it is just a game" or "it is just a movie". That attitude will result and has resulted in crappy games nobody wants to play and movies nobody wants to see. The only way we get good games and movies is by complaining when they cheat on the research and skimp on the realism. This is a billion dollar business, and if they want to keep making top selling games that set selling records every single time, they are going to have to do more to live upto the Call of Duty name next time around. This one may be a huge seller now, but I would bet good money if they repeat this kind of laziness on the next one it won't be as successful, because a lot of gamers are beyond disapointed in this game. They bought it because the pervious games were so great. Not because of anything this game had to offer on its own. That is going to kill the next games sales unless that game is a marked improvement.
^ agreed, they need to do more testing before they release games as well. Can't believe I paid 60 bucks for this ****
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  #11  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:39 PM
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Translation, lazy mo-fos too busy chasing a dollar to do their jobs right.
Thats actually not the case usually. A friend of mine works for Activision. They have real ex SF guys helping with the games. They don't do things like dual wielding because they think real people do that in real life, they do it because its cool and its going to sell more copies. If you want an infantry combat simulator, go buy one. Bohimia has been doing really good work with the ArmA series for years now. You have to understand that a HUGE percent of people who play games like Halo and CoD want fun and cool not realistic.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:44 PM
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Do a search online my friend. You will discover you are incorrect. A lot of people are annoyed with the lack of attention to detail and reuse of existing assests to save time and money at the expense of realism. Even on their own forum, there are a ton of people complaining about it. The "it is just a game" defense does not cut it when you are spending $60 of your hard earned cash. They have set certain expectations, realisitic guns for the era the game is set in is one of those expectations.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 1:56 PM..
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:52 PM
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There is no question the game play is fun and the story line is interesting. The one major problem with the game, and thing you see the most amount of complaints about online (other than the use of STEAM) is that they recycled existing assets from other games instead of using real weapons from that era.

I am not exactly asking for money back, but I am not going to buy the next release in the series at full price either, for this level of attention to detail on their part I can afford to wait until the game hits the bargin bin. That buy the way, is a growing sentiment being echoed again and again online. They lost a huge segment of their fan base who before would have paid any dollar amount for their games, and now will wait however long it takes for it to go on sale. The "I've gotta have this right now" edge that they had before this game is gone.

The real guns from that era would have been a lot of fun. Slick side XM117s (what the USAF calls GAU-5s) for one would have made an excellent primary weapon for the main character. Actual scopes from that area instead of "ACOGS" would have been great. Vietnam Era M40 and M40A1 sniper rifles with the correct optics would have been great. Stuff history buffs and gun nuts would have raved about. Instead, they instantly alienated about 1/3 of the audience they have locked into instantly buying a copy of their next release. Some of those guys will still buy the next version no matter what. But a lot won't...and that translates into huge numbers. Worse, you are starting to hear non-gun guys echo this complaint, and before they heard us complain they would never have even noticed. They may not know realism if it hit them in the head, but they still want it in their games.

Reputation is everything. Part of Call of Duty's superior reputation had to do with the fact that you were using the real weapons of the era, or at least as close as any video game ever got, and you were using a boat load of them. Now that no longer applies. Which in the long run will hurt sales.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 2:01 PM..
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:53 PM
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Just another reason i didn't buy this one or WAW. This developer stinks.
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:57 PM
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OP,

did the Stoners reflex really exist?
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2010, 1:59 PM
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Do a search online my friend. You will discover you are incorrect. A lot of people are annoyed with the lack of attention to detail and reuse of existing assests to save time and money at the expense of realism.
Just to be clear, you are saying that "a lot" of people posting trumps the 8.4 million units sold in November alone? You have to remember, 99% of the people who like the game the way it is dont take the time to post about how awesome it is on internet forums, they just go and play the game. You will always have more posts from disappointed people then positive posts from people who like it because the people who like it dont need to vent. they just play the game.

now, im not arguing that the game is fine, or even good, its a POS. its the first COD game i didnt actually beat in SP and i have maybe 5 hours in MP before i uninstalled it. but providing forum posts as anecdotal evidence that the best selling CoD game in CoD history is unliked by a reasonable % let alone a majority lacks credibility.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2010, 2:16 PM
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Another false argument, which was already covered above.

The sales are not based on the merit of this game, but on the games that came before. They are buying based on the Call of Duty name, and thus far this is the worst one in the series by far. Once people actually play the game...they find it is a let down. Your own comments back this up 100%.

You won't see the impact of that for a while. As word spreads sales will taper off much quicker with this game than with previous versions, and it will likely impact the sales of the next game big time. People won't rush to the store to buy the next one without first finding out if it actually lives upto the Call of Duty name next time around. This time, we all got ahead of ourselves.

Sales are probably so high as a result of the bad economy. Sounds off right? Spend $60 on video game in hard times? The expectation is that they would get countless hours of entertainment playing that game. That is time and money they do not need to spend on other forms of entertainment, during which they would have spent much more than that $60. Previous COD games delivered that, and it was largely based on all the really cool guns they let you use. By reusuing their existing assests, they ruin the experience. It is too much like previous games. Realistic weapon choices would have allowed you to suspend disbelief a little easier and buy into the gaming experience a little more. Even non-gun nuts are noticing that...even if they can't put their finger on the exact cause.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 2:25 PM..
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2010, 3:03 PM
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I'm willing to overlook all of that, because it has a G11
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Old 12-30-2010, 3:13 PM
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Or the assumption that you can't hit a choper propellers with a rocket granade. Tha's just crap man. You supposed to take it down if you damage it's propellers. I call it's BS. Plus I can unload the whole mag in to an opponent and he will bunny hop his way out of getting shot. that's just crap has written all over it.
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Old 12-30-2010, 3:26 PM
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the problem is people thought that treyarch would develop something better than infinity ward's MW 1-2.

treyarch is the stepchild of the CoD world. and not a good stepchild at that. you want a better CoD with attention to detail, wait for Infinity Ward. although with half the top brass of IW being fired by activision and going to work for EA, maybe the next best shooter will come from EA and their new developer, Respawn Entertainment
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  #21  
Old 12-30-2010, 3:32 PM
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Take a look at some of the pictures this guy has from Vietnam. Imagine if the game immersed you in the reality of that war the way these still photographs do. If it made you feel the dry sticky heat and dirt in every crevasse of your body the way they do. If you felt the fear, and the pain, anxiety, adrenaline and yes sometimes even boredom the way these simple photographs do. Then they would have succeeded in making something worthy of the franchise. The first two COD games did an excellent job at all of the above given the limitations of the technology. The next two games glossed over the boredom and negative aspects of war a bit more since it mimicked on going conflicts and made up for it by trying to show the latest and greatest weapons of our era. Given how far we have come on the technology end, there is no excuse for such a poorly crafted game set in the past. The feel is all wrong, the firearms are only one aspect of that...but a major one.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...(Lot-of-pics)&

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 3:35 PM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 7:18 PM
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see! now look what you have started.....ranting and raving!
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2010, 7:22 PM
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My biggest gripe with all of the shooter games is I absolutely hate Halo jumpers, last stand, and in previous ones Martydom. Other than that I really hate how off the knockdown power is for example a 9mm sub gun more powerful than a 5.56 I don't think so. Body shot placement should matter more and just because someone has a dedicated sniper rifle in the game doesn't mean that there same .308 firearm is more powerful than my .308 battle rifle.

I want to see guys with a bolt gun lose momentary target acquisition when cycling a round after firing I'd like to see some bullet drop and rise too that would be great. If I'm peppering someone in the torso and face they shouldn't be able to look down a scope and shoot me in the foot and I go down. Same goes for the knife I'm sorry I'd rather get stabbed any day of the week than get shot in the chest with a rifle.

There needs to be a delay of the knife coming out of the sheath if I get slashed in the chest you'll just be breaking my skin and making me bleed my organs will be fine. Last but not least they should have a Magpul dynamics video watch perk which would let you add all the attachments you want make you speed reload quicker engage multiple target faster because of your grip and give you a kevlar beard attachment. I'm not talking **** about MPD BTW I like their videos I just think that would be funny and I think Tacticalcity would like that perk since your such a fan lol.

Oh and if you get caught hacking once your console or activation key should be deactivated and your character should be stripped of all accomplishments you should go back to level 1 and you should be fined I hate cheaters they suck at life.

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Old 12-30-2010, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
My biggest gripe with all of the shooter games is I absolutely hate Halo jumpers, last stand, and in previous ones Martydom. Other than that I really hate how off the knockdown power is for example a 9mm sub gun more powerful than a 5.56 I don't think so. Body shot placement should matter more and just because someone has a dedicated sniper rifle in the game doesn't mean that there same .308 firearm is more powerful than my .308 battle rifle.
I agree. the "power" of all 5.56 rifles should be about the same, maybe a small adjustment for barrel length. Same for 7.62, etc. I am tired of seeing one rifle/mg in a caliber having a significantly different amount of power as another firearm in the same caliber, and having "lessor" guns having more knockdown power than the larger guns. adjust the manuverabily if you want. make it so that I can't snipe across the map with an UZI, but keep the power wherei t belongs
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Old 12-30-2010, 7:33 PM
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Black ops is definitely a step backwards. I would much rather play mw2. The problem is ALL of my friends and 3 of my brothers have black ops. So I am forced to play an inferior game. I don't mind because I still completely destroy every game I am put in.
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Old 12-30-2010, 7:53 PM
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Black ops is definitely a step backwards. I would much rather play mw2. The problem is ALL of my friends and 3 of my brothers have black ops. So I am forced to play an inferior game. I don't mind because I still completely destroy every game I am put in.
The only problem with that statement is Black Ops set a new record in breaking the 1 Billion dollar mark.
The developer's explanation for having weapons featured in the game prior to their actual release date was the SOF community regularly gets a hold of expiramental weapons before they are manufactured on a large scale.
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Old 12-30-2010, 8:30 PM
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It set that bench mark based on the reputation of the franchise and not based on this particular game. Think about it. Did you do a lot of research and read lots of reviews before buying it? Or did you trust the experience you had with the previous games? We all did the same thing. Some of us are just smart enough to smell the BS when we see it.

As for their excuse....gamer please! Some of the weapons in the game were not invented until the current Iraq war. Others were not on the drawing boards until the 70s, others the 80s, and so on. The develepment of each weapon, even its experimental counter parts is well documented.

They got lazy and used pre-existing assets they already owned from previous games and tweaked them here and there.

As for the story line in single player, I admit enjoyed it. I just now got around to beating single player tonight. Still, if I knew what I know now...that they did a half as job on the guns and the game was a complete fail on an authenticity and "feel" level I would have waited to buy it used on Ebay.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-30-2010 at 8:32 PM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 9:31 PM
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Translation, lazy mo-fos too busy chasing a dollar to do their jobs right.
Little harsh, don't you think? They do a good job creating a fun, technically well-developed game. It's unfortunate about the anachronisms (my 12-year-old son asked me when the AK-74 and SPAS-12 were introduced after he played the game), but it is still a piece of software that a lot of hard work went into.
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Old 12-31-2010, 1:17 AM
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The only problem with that statement is Black Ops set a new record in breaking the 1 Billion dollar mark.
The developer's explanation for having weapons featured in the game prior to their actual release date was the SOF community regularly gets a hold of expiramental weapons before they are manufactured on a large scale.
Because sold more copies means a better game? no..
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Old 12-31-2010, 5:27 AM
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The weapon combinations in Black Ops seemed a bit odd. It didn't make sense putting a modern optic like an ACOG on your grandfather's Enfield, which is why I sold Black Ops to a coworker and reverted back to playing MW2 on-line. Infinity Ward's MW1 and 2 are way more cool.
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Old 12-31-2010, 5:38 AM
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I like the fact that an attachment that takes you from a long barrel revolver to a short (snub nose) barrel improves accuracy.
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2010, 7:28 AM
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I'm with nose nuggets. When I play a video game it's to have fun and blow off some steam/stress with friends. If I really cared about the ultra authenticity I would play ARMA and spend 3 hours roaming around a map to shoot 3 people.

I finally got the game 2 days ago and enjoy it so far. I really liked COD4 and our server group ran that game for over a year.
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Old 12-31-2010, 1:06 PM
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Little harsh, don't you think? They do a good job creating a fun, technically well-developed game. It's unfortunate about the anachronisms (my 12-year-old son asked me when the AK-74 and SPAS-12 were introduced after he played the game), but it is still a piece of software that a lot of hard work went into.
No question it is fun, but it would have been a lot more fun if they had not cheated and reused assets they already had. That is the only excuse I can come up with that would explain it. I figure some executive was anxious to meet a holiday deadline (which is where the money part of my statement comes in) and the only way the designers could do that from a technical level was to tweak a bunch of existing weapon models and assets they already owned (which is where the lazy part comes in).

There were so many really cool and exciting weapons and variants of those weapons back then. The optics and accessories where also pretty darn cool. One visit to AR15.coms Retro Picture Gallery will prove that to any skeptic. So the "fun" argument doesn't hold up. It would have been much more fun if this COD at least made an effort to get the details right. The games that came before did a great job of that. Not perfect, but admirable. They didn't even try in this one. There were no flat top ARs with flip-up sights.

The game should have focused on the followed for allied forces: M1911, XM117, M14, M24, M40, M40A1, M60, M79, M72 LAW (the one in the game functions like a modern TOW missle which is way off), M1-A1 Claymore, M870 Shotguns and a bunch of WWII era weapons that SOG teams still used such as greese guns. There was some use of optics here and there, but they were not ACOGs. I am not aware of any red dots back then either.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-31-2010 at 1:16 PM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 2:15 PM
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If you bought cod as a war action simulator (which you wish it was based upon your criticisms), then you bought the wrong game as it was never intended to be one. writing pages of rants about its inaccuracy makes you look only marginally less foolish than a professor of ancient Greek history doing the same thing about god of war.
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Old 12-31-2010, 3:29 PM
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My kid is a competitive gamer and he agrees that the game blows. He got # 1 on the leaderboards for, I think, four of the categories. But, they've screwed up Halo Reach so badly, whatcha gonna do? Me, I just like to spend some evening time shooting people for fun. I do pretty well in the Multiplayer until my kid comes home on break. He's scary.

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Old 12-31-2010, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
If you bought cod as a war action simulator (which you wish it was based upon your criticisms), then you bought the wrong game as it was never intended to be one. writing pages of rants about its inaccuracy makes you look only marginally less foolish than a professor of ancient Greek history doing the same thing about god of war.
Once more for the learning impared, I expected it to live upto the franchise name and it didn't.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-31-2010 at 7:40 PM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 7:40 PM
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Videogames may not be for you..
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Old 12-31-2010, 7:51 PM
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How could you possibly get that from any of my statements? If I were not a HUGE video game fan, and a huge fan of the COD franchise, I would not care at all that they did such a piss poor job making this one.

Wanting a $60 video game to live upto the standards and expectations set by the previous games in the series is perfectly reasonable.
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Old 12-31-2010, 7:53 PM
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Next you guys are going to say GI Joe was a cinematic masterpiece on the same level Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, and Apocolypse Now!
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Old 12-31-2010, 8:08 PM
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For general recreation, I prefer sci-fi games like Borderlands or Resistance... no real need to be upset at the guns there.
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