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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 06-13-2018, 6:51 PM
Exocet5 Exocet5 is offline
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Xlnt comment on nuke power.

Daniel describes these beasts as having 10 horns on its head. Perhaps what Daniel saw was not horns but a communications array? Hardened antennas.
Are their enough comm bands to get us to 10 large antennas?
What do high speed telecomm ______ look like?
What other sensors could appear as a post antenna? What military/comm devices appear now in 2018 as protected post antenna?


As a creature built strickly for CQB melee, the antennas (located on top of a head that is diping down to -chomp-) would have to be built strong enough to be in constant motion as well as the occasional swipe & contact from movement through its AO & combat.

I have great faith we will find insight here & now in how to fight these things.

Edit: added amateur antenna array (HAM bands methinks)


Last edited by Exocet5; 06-14-2018 at 10:16 AM..
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  #42  
Old 06-13-2018, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Who says the power source would need to be a battery?
Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators have been used since the early days of the space program. That is how the Voyager probes are still active after over 40 years, without enough sunlight to power solar panels. That was the "nuclear furnace" on the Lunar Module referenced in the movie Apollo 13.
Cyborgs or bots working for an AI entity that are battling humans are not going to care about some radiation being emitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-...tric_generator
Not anywhere near enough power.

MSL's RTG produces a mere 1600 W (thermal), ~100 W (electrical). The assembly weighs about a hundred pounds...

We can still hear Voyager 1 even though its transmit power is down to 20 W. In the next few years the signal will finally become so weak that Voyager won't be able to transmit slowly enough for us to receive meaningful data. Pretty good run she's had, though.
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  #43  
Old 06-13-2018, 8:50 PM
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Not anywhere near enough power.

MSL's RTG produces a mere 1600 W (thermal), ~100 W (electrical). The assembly weighs about a hundred pounds...
Current technology, ya... an RTG can't run a hair dryer.

Basis of the OP is in 20 years.
The GPHS-RTG is fueled by about 8kg of Pu... that's over 4kw of heat. With improved TEG technology, the current 300w output might get into the 2-3kw range.

Even with today's technology though, hybrid tech would work, using the RTG as a maintenance and battery recharge power source, and batteries to provide short term high current draw needs.
Any soldier needs to rest.... multiple waves of bots could continue an assault while earlier waves recharge.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #44  
Old 06-13-2018, 9:44 PM
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2-3 kW is still not going to make an effective cyborg. 3 kW = 4.08 horsepower.


Among current robotics systems that could be physically intimidating, nearly all run on Li-Ion batteries. These also come with a built-in self destruct mechanism at no extra charge!

A truly fearsome future cyborg would use biologically derived actuators, and probably biologically derived fuel for them as well... say a tank of pure ATP feeding artificial muscles using a network of microtubes.

This also suggests the best way to fight them would be a combination of armor penetration and chemical attack. A suitably equipped WWI trench fighter, with a BAR, chem suit, and a mustard gas dispenser, might actually fare OK in that situation, so long as lack of mobility wasn't an issue...
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  #45  
Old 06-14-2018, 4:19 PM
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I like that Socom .458. How does it compare to .50 BMG?
Seriously?
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  #46  
Old 06-14-2018, 6:40 PM
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Seriously?
Mr Tactical has arrived
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  #47  
Old 06-14-2018, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
2-3 kW is still not going to make an effective cyborg. 3 kW = 4.08 horsepower.
But where is the technology going to be in 20 years?
Where was it 20 years ago compared to today?
Both battery and TEG.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #48  
Old 06-14-2018, 8:15 PM
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RTGs have hardly changed at all. The most modern out there, ASRG, mainly differs from the archaic SNAP series in that it uses a Stirling engine to recover electrical energy. There is at most one order of magnitude improvement in performance possible.

Batteries may and hopefully will get quite a bit better, but this particular application is pretty demanding. I still expect a biochemical reactor to be far superior, near- and far-term.
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  #49  
Old 06-14-2018, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
RTGs have hardly changed at all. The most modern out there, ASRG, mainly differs from the archaic SNAP series in that it uses a Stirling engine to recover electrical energy. There is at most one order of magnitude improvement in performance possible.

Batteries may and hopefully will get quite a bit better, but this particular application is pretty demanding. I still expect a biochemical reactor to be far superior, near- and far-term.
I think you just put a face & body on what I'm describing as a trans humanoid augmented by an armored exoskeleton. Thanks very much for your insights as a chemical attack was an idea that popped in my head the night before.

Here's an interesting thread on that subject: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/...393385/?page=1

Had a thought in days leading up to TEOTWAWKI, folks might obtain precursor chems...but I don't think something like chlorine gas (one of the easier & safer recipes?) would have as much effect on these beasts as a blistering agent like you mentioned.

So that sort of leaves us considering fertilizer & diesel fuel as preset charges in a building as one realistic option. Good thing diesel lasts years!

Daniel mentions the tribulation period lasting quite awhile.

Open issues:

10 horns = antenna / sensor array?
.50 BMG AP - effective or not?
40mm as truly an effective weapon as thought?


- Did some research on .50 BMG AP. In this vid, from a 29" barrel, it looks like it only penetrates perhaps 1/3 of a 1" AR550 plate. https://youtu.be/pjVrcr3VXjk

I also found out that the 20" barrett barrel will do 2,470 fps (29" above is +300fps)

Did some research on 40mm rounds. They're primarily developed as an anti-personne round with only 1 chambering: US Cartridge, 40mm HEDP, M430 & M430A1 designed to cut through armor but unfortunately only (?) deliverable via a 40mm cannon and not a m79-type system. There are low and high speed 40mm rounds and I'm guessing these are high speed.

This cartridge is a high explosive, dual purpose, impact type round designed to penetrate two inches (three inches for the M430A1) of steel armor at 0 angle of obliquity and inflict personnel casualties in the target area. It is fired from 40mm Machine Gun Mk 19 Mod 3. Not authorized for use in M129 Grenade Launcher.

This cartridge is a fixed round of ammunition with an internally embossed steel projectile body containing a high explosive charge of*Comp A5*and a copper liner.


the other open questions are:
Is there anything that could replicate the armor cutting/mangling ability of the 40mm above except for diesel & fertilizer?

Last edited by Exocet5; 06-14-2018 at 10:27 PM..
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  #50  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:55 PM
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Engage terminator in witty conversation
Trap it in a consideration of the Rule of the Excluded Middle
Laugh as its processor slags down
Move on to the next one


Well, it worked for Captain Kirk...


Never mind, just pull the pin on the grenade and know that you're taking one with you.
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  #51  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:24 AM
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If we can ever get fusion to work, they may end up being powered by old beer cans a la "Back to the Future part 2".

Anybody thought about microwaves? Making some sort of focused magnetron gun?

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  #52  
Old 06-15-2018, 9:13 AM
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Interesting point on the microwave/magnetron. You just sparked an idea that one area of vulnerability may indeed be against that 10 horned/antenna array.

At a minimum, those "horns" are there for a reason and if not combat then something else. I have a hard time believing the AI-god would design superflous style into the beast. Whatever detracts from its mission would make it a less efficient killer. Plus material waste in production.

Part of me thinks these things will be grown/manufactured as simply as possible to accomplish its mission goal not unlike the
speed strategy used in many computer games (and in real life & business!) vs opponent civilizations. Think of the 4 E's: explore, expand, exploit & exterminate and as fast as possible.

It may be a play against available resources vs technological developement vs biotech manufacturing capability vs target population "hardness". So a completely disarmed population will be much easier to exterminate than say the Lone Star state and armoring could be lessened to focus on more range/speed.

Which is exactly why this discussion is pertinent; the geographic area fornerly known as the USA will most certainly be getting the Uparmored 4th Beast.

Last edited by Exocet5; 06-15-2018 at 9:45 AM..
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  #53  
Old 06-15-2018, 9:57 AM
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AI intent on taking over the planet would have no need for melee weapons.
A simple engineered airborne and contagious nanovirus could wipe out humanity within weeks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #54  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:49 AM
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Cokebottle, you are completely correct.

But to quote Pres Trump "Cokebottle, I'm given what I'm given".

And in this case we might have to deal with flesh eating melee cyborgs

Last edited by Exocet5; 06-15-2018 at 2:19 PM..
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  #55  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:30 PM
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Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs. Think of a terminator but not as futuristically armored/hard to kill as the movies would make them as the armored weight would create mobility issues. Human sized but more machine than anything. And connected to a high speed "bad guy" info network.

That said, what civilian available weapons produced 1897-2018 would be most effective? In 2037, these would be antiques.

There are some obvious ones that come to mind BUT consider this is CQB within a building. And since this is vs mostly metal...the normal ideas of velocity vs mass vs projectile shape may not hold water.

Please.... not trying to start a flame war. And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.

Thoughts please
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2018, 12:18 AM
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I've gotta gimme one of these...!!



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  #57  
Old 06-19-2018, 8:02 PM
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shotguns with slugs should do it
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  #58  
Old 06-19-2018, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs. Think of a terminator but not as futuristically armored/hard to kill as the movies would make them as the armored weight would create mobility issues. Human sized but more machine than anything. And connected to a high speed "bad guy" info network.

That said, what civilian available weapons produced 1897-2018 would be most effective? In 2037, these would be antiques.

There are some obvious ones that come to mind BUT consider this is CQB within a building. And since this is vs mostly metal...the normal ideas of velocity vs mass vs projectile shape may not hold water.

Please.... not trying to start a flame war. And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.

Thoughts please
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Thanks...this is not an attempt at humor. If you study my threads, I only pursue serious subjects. Not an active worry, thinking of what may becoming down the pike.

What other place could this conversation happen with the breadth of CG's collective knowledge? I'm fairly up to speed on current developements in biotech, transhumanism, & network developement.

Not a rapture guy. Daniel's "teeth of iron" is a thought.
OP.. did you just get back from Mordor?

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  #59  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs. Think of a terminator but not as futuristically armored/hard to kill as the movies would make them as the armored weight would create mobility issues. Human sized but more machine than anything. And connected to a high speed "bad guy" info network.

That said, what civilian available weapons produced 1897-2018 would be most effective? In 2037, these would be antiques.

There are some obvious ones that come to mind BUT consider this is CQB within a building. And since this is vs mostly metal...the normal ideas of velocity vs mass vs projectile shape may not hold water.

Please.... not trying to start a flame war. And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.

Thoughts please
I would do drugs and alcohol, a bit of Viagra ans save my money for low cost hookers and not worry about anything else..
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  #60  
Old 06-20-2018, 5:13 PM
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I would do drugs and alcohol, a bit of Viagra ans save my money for low cost hookers and not worry about anything else..
Hey hey... low cost hookers mean industrial strength condoms and a cash reserve for penicillin.
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  #61  
Old 06-20-2018, 5:36 PM
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If the robot looks like Arnold and it wears star sunglasses and goes "talk to the hand" than I'm not too worried.
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  #62  
Old 06-20-2018, 5:40 PM
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Hey Neil!
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  #63  
Old 06-24-2018, 1:07 AM
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Tedx 6-20-18

How we'll become cyborgs and extend our human potential

https://youtu.be/PLk8Pm_XBJE

The future is closer than you think and no heel digging or blinders are allowed. No surprises right?
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  #64  
Old 06-26-2018, 8:59 PM
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  #65  
Old 06-27-2018, 1:06 PM
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Don't engage directly...I imagine the weapon of choice for cyborg would be a bioweapon. Anything that supports conditions for life to exist and flourish would be subject to attack. The same approach should be used against them...attack their supporting infrastructure...wireless networks need antennas, power, maintenance. Physically damage transmission equipment, attack the power source, attach the software that makes the system work. Where are they made? Where are they repaired/serviced? Not very sexy to introduce enough particulate matter to clog air and water filtration systems at a manufacturing site, but if it creates enough of a distraction to do some real damage it has value. We probably wouldn't get that opportunity though, they would simply need to poison the environment sufficiently to eliminate people and be done with it. Detonate all the nukes in the world over populated areas or downwind and wait...not a problem for them...An AI overlord would have resources and perspective that are truly terrifying!
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:33 AM
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Freon 😘
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