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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-05-2012, 10:41 PM
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Question Clean VS Cold Bore?

Hey everybody,

So basically, I've been getting some mixed feedback from other shooters about cleaning and shooting and wanted to see what you guys and gals would say.

I know a cold bore shot is when your barrel is obviously cool and possibly dirty from previous shooting...... and a clean bore shot is shooting with a completely clean barrel after a decent amount of scrubbing with whatever floats your boat.


I keep hearing that cleaning the barrel is either good or bad, and just want some thoughts from other shooters and their methods.


I used to clean my rifles religiously after each range trip, but always saw terrible accuracy for the first 30-50 rounds. Lately I've put less effort into the barrels by only using swabs to get any carbon out... but never using a brush to get the copper out. Honestly, I've seen better accuracy with my dirty barrels instead of squeeky clean ones. I really don't like dirty things, but the results are clear as day and I can't argue with that.


So what do you guys think?




PS: I'm shooting ARs... and NO, the search button did not work!
I will beat someone with a pillow case filled with bars of soap if they tell me to try it..... All I got were dead threads from 2006 that were irrelevant.
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2012, 10:44 PM
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there's a thread here with the same exact topic....

Search it, it'll show up.

Here's a couple.....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...n+vs+cold+bore

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...n+vs+cold+bore

(veered off topic a bit, but you'll get the jist of it.)

IMO, you dont have to clean it after every 50 rounds... It'll shoot fine even after you shoot 800 rounds through it.

Last edited by peter95; 02-05-2012 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 02-06-2012, 6:34 AM
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Yesterday I was drilling a long hole in aluminum (TM 10/22 80%) and noticed that the powdered aluminum stuck to the drill bit. Reason I bring it up is because the bit would quickly get gummed up and wouldn't cut as well. IMO copper fouling is similar in that when it gets started it really starts to go bad quickly and groups totally disappear from the beginning of the session to the end -- at least this was my experience with an unlined chrome-moly AR barrel. For my rifles I'm shooting chrome-lined and stainless barrels nowadays and haven't seen that issue again, mostly it's just fatigue at the end of the day that makes the groups bloom. I haven't changed my cleaning habits at all with a brass brush pushed through after a wet patch soaked the gunk for a minute or so, seems to shoot fine after a couple of rounds for me.
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Old 02-06-2012, 7:17 AM
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30-50 rounds before things settle down, maybe for a .22 rimfire, any center fire should have things settle down in maybe 3-5 shots.
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Old 02-06-2012, 7:46 AM
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Are you shooting for groups?
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Old 02-06-2012, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kurac View Post
30-50 rounds before things settle down, maybe for a .22 rimfire, any center fire should have things settle down in maybe 3-5 shots.
I just bought a Weatherby and their owner's manual says the break-in period is 2 boxes. They recommend going through two boxes of 20 rounds each before beginning sighting in.
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Old 02-06-2012, 8:17 AM
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I'm shooting for groups.

On Friday, my stainless took about 20 rounds to get a solid group at 200, and that was after the guy who worked on it decided to clean it thoroughly.

My chrome-lined A2 shot dead center groups right away at 75 yards, which I never really clean the barrel.
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Old 02-06-2012, 8:19 AM
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There are a lot of opinions as to how to properly clean a rifle barrel. Copper does not harm your barrel (unless you have excessive copper stripping, oozing from the crown which will be obvious) I've found that if you clean your barrel with a quality power solvent to remove the carbon and unburnt powder you don't need to worry about the copper. Except during prober barrel break in. It's the carbon that will corrode and pit the barrel causing accuracy issues as the carbon absorbs moisture.

There are those that believe you'll need to strip or remove the copper after every shooting adventure. Removing the copper having a totally clean barrel does create accuracy issues. Now your cold/clean bore shot has a different impact point as the result of the missing copper in the barrel. After several shots the bullets traveling down the barrel strip their copper filling in the areas of the barrel the copper was removed from, now your shots move to your sighted POI and tightening up, creating a happy shooter again. I've seen rifles with several thousand rounds through them maintain a sub moa, once stripped of copper the groups moved and expanded for about 10-12 rounds returning to their previous sub moa accuracy.

Some will tell you you need to strip your rifles barrel and then fire several fowling shots. Fowling shots, Really?? Why clean your barrel to remove the carbon and copper only to replace it again so your rifle will shoot accurately. To me this seems counter productive. The fowling shots return the copper to the areas of the barrel it was removed from creating the accuracy. Removing the carbon is important, not the copper.

I like to clean with M-Pro7. I'm sure there are others who have their favorite cleaners as well. As long as you're using a quality cleaner you should be good to go! Remember to remove the cleaner before oiling. The mixture of cleaner and oil will create a paste that create operational issues, especially in confined areas you don't clean every time.

Good luck with your cleaning! Enjoy shooting.
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Old 02-06-2012, 9:31 AM
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/\

That's exactly what I wanted to hear...

Thank you VERY much


I usually run patches wet with gunzilla through my barrels after a day at the range, but like I said I keep the copper in by avoiding the brush.
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I love French rifles most "Brand new only dropped once"
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Old 02-06-2012, 9:49 AM
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/\

I usually run patches wet with gunzilla through my barrels after a day at the range, but like I said I keep the copper in by avoiding the brush.
For what's its worth, this is my way as I don't think brushing is going to remove copper, it will help with the carbon removal. I normally run a wet patch down the pipe, followed by brushing, 1 stroke for every round fired, wetting the brush after every 10 strokes...Then I patch (wet) till it comes out clean. I never see any green only black/grey on the patch. Copper solvent is about the only thing that will remove copper...When copper solvent is used the patch is green showing the removal of the copper.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:57 AM
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So copper can't be stripped with a brush? I always saw metallic bits when I used the brush and assumed it was the copper...
In fact, after using the brush on my barrels I always saw bigger groups.
Now I'm a little confused.



EDIT: Gunzilla strips carbon, copper, and lead.... looks like I need a new cleaner =\
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You are going to sell it to the gun store?
Come ON. They will charge you for the KY jelly btw.
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I love French rifles most "Brand new only dropped once"

Last edited by Ziggy91; 02-06-2012 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:22 PM
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Big difference between a cold bore and a clean bore. A clean bore will usually require several shots to settle in.
A cold bore shot is often used to start tactical matches as it requires the shooter to know his rifle's cold bore point of impact.

Copper is usually removed mostly by chemical reaction (Ammonia or other) brushes are for the powder/carbon fowling. If you're using a ammonia-based cleaner with a bronze-bristled brush, you're probably seeing pieces of, or blue color from, the brush itself. Use nylon brushes.

Barrels don't need to be cleaned after every outing. Best practice is to clean it when the groups start opening up. Years ago when primers contained corrosives, our grandfathers were correct in saying "never let the sun set on a dirty barrel". That no longer holds true.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:40 PM
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I've had some rifles that love a clean bore and others that just hate it. You really just have to test it and see what it likes. More often than not my rifles like to be dirty. I run some patches every 500 rounds or so but never scrub with a brass brush or use a copper solvent.
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Old 02-06-2012, 1:00 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiDoddUL4rI

magpul dynamics answer
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Old 02-06-2012, 4:46 PM
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Although I don't like using many of Costa or Haley's techniques... Hearing that from Todd Hodnett is a different story. Very good advice, thanks for sharing.
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