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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-15-2011, 4:16 PM
Mattole Mattole is offline
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Default Accuracy of 7.62x39 From an AR Platform?

What kind of accuracy are you getting from cheap surplus and from better factory ammunition? Getting an upper in this caliber has me kind of intrigued..
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2011, 4:17 PM
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Do you mean 7.62x40 (aka 7.62x39 USA)?
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2011, 4:30 PM
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Heresy!
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2011, 4:57 PM
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Exposed has a NICE AR with a x39 upper. It will hit clays on the 200 yd berm all day with surplus or commercial ammo. Don't know who's upper he's got on it, you'll have to ask him
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2011, 4:58 PM
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Yugo surplus pws ar pistol MK107 7.5" 7.62x39, Trijicon scope tr24-g zeroed@100 yards, trajectory 3" up @200 yards, 8" @300 yards and 17"@400 yards all target is steel head shot.

Last edited by RonPogi; 06-15-2011 at 6:20 PM..
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2011, 6:01 PM
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Shooting a Bushmaster 7.62x39 upper using Wolf military classic and some of the other comparable polymer coated mil grade ammo and I am consistently getting about 2" groups using a red dot sight at 100 yards. I have some higher quality brass stuff I am hoping to get better results with the next time I taker her out but overall I am happy getting +/- 2" using cheap ammo with no magnification.
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Old 06-15-2011, 8:37 PM
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That sounds pretty good to me, Wildhawk. I do think I will get a 7.62x39 upper, in addition to the 6.8x43 that I plan to get soon.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2011, 8:55 PM
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Who's magazines are you guys using in your 7.62x39mm AR's? A buddy has one and the mags he has are junk.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2011, 9:00 PM
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Who's magazines are you guys using in your 7.62x39mm AR's? A buddy has one and the mags he has are junk.
^^^THIS^^^
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:06 PM
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C-products 10 rounders. Bought a bunch before they went under. I still see them for sale every now and then so you should be able to find them pretty easily.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:44 PM
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Get some Yellow box UMC 7.62x39 ammo.
That's the only way you'll get a reasonable test.
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Old 06-16-2011, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Get some Yellow box UMC 7.62x39 ammo.
That's the only way you'll get a reasonable test.
This, what he just said.

Also I've read some recent reports of Winchester White Box 7.62x39 in FMJ and Soft Point (if I recall right) producing 2-inch groups at 100 yards out of a Romanian AK. I'm sure an AR-7.62 will produce better than that, so possibly 1.5 inches at 100yds? That's amazing if you ask me for a big, slow, manstopping caliber such as that.
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Old 06-16-2011, 8:59 PM
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I'm another person interested in accuracy of 7.62x39 with an AR.

I recently shot 1 MOA groups with my buddy's Russian SKS with iron sites at 200 yards from the bench. My buddy used the rifle for deer hunting for years with great effect (72 tags one year doing crop control for a local farmer). My buddy keeps telling me to buy the 7.62x39 upper as a SHTF option as he has plenty of ammo which is primarily Russian steel case (I still think that I will end up with a 308 first).

Any reco on the barrel, barrel length and lands, and upper that won't have issues with older military surplus steel case Russian ammo and shoot accurately? Also, since the SKS and AK are piston driven, does this suggest that the AR upper should be piston driven as well?

Thanks!
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2011, 9:05 PM
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Help me find a Bushmaster 7.62x39 upper in stock, and I'll let you know in a week, or whatever long the delivery takes
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:12 PM
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I'm going out on the 26th to shoot my x39. I'll try to do a report.
I use C-Prods mags and some old USA 10 rounders.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerme View Post
I'm another person interested in accuracy of 7.62x39 with an AR.

I recently shot 1 MOA groups with my buddy's Russian SKS with iron sites at 200 yards from the bench. My buddy used the rifle for deer hunting for years with great effect (72 tags one year doing crop control for a local farmer). My buddy keeps telling me to buy the 7.62x39 upper as a SHTF option as he has plenty of ammo which is primarily Russian steel case (I still think that I will end up with a 308 first).

Any reco on the barrel, barrel length and lands, and upper that won't have issues with older military surplus steel case Russian ammo and shoot accurately? Also, since the SKS and AK are piston driven, does this suggest that the AR upper should be piston driven as well?

Thanks!
It does not have to be piston driven, and I assume since the cone shaped casing of the 7.62x39's caliber already aids in reliability (preventing empty casings from getting stuck in chamber upon extraction) that having a DI or piston driven system wouldn't matter either way.

In fact, I've heard of the piston affecting accuracy to a certain extent because of that mass of metal moving and vibrating on top of the barrel all the way up to the gas system's meeting point on to the barrel itself. Direct Impingement, from what I know doesn't produce that same vibration, it's just direct gas into your receiver, then into the bolt carrier's key. Not sure how true that may be, or how much a piston gas system robs a rifle of accuracy and if so, I'm sure not ALL piston systems are designed or function exactly the same. Some are probably exceptionally smooth and allow great accuracy, and others probably suffer from that performance "weakness" I just described above. Usually, as with anything, you get what you pay for. If you come out of pocket for a top dollar nice piston upper it will probably have you bragging all over town about it.

Last edited by Rock_Islander; 06-16-2011 at 10:16 PM..
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2011, 6:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Islander View Post
It does not have to be piston driven, and I assume since the cone shaped casing of the 7.62x39's caliber already aids in reliability (preventing empty casings from getting stuck in chamber upon extraction) that having a DI or piston driven system wouldn't matter either way.

In fact, I've heard of the piston affecting accuracy to a certain extent because of that mass of metal moving and vibrating on top of the barrel all the way up to the gas system's meeting point on to the barrel itself. Direct Impingement, from what I know doesn't produce that same vibration, it's just direct gas into your receiver, then into the bolt carrier's key. Not sure how true that may be, or how much a piston gas system robs a rifle of accuracy and if so, I'm sure not ALL piston systems are designed or function exactly the same. Some are probably exceptionally smooth and allow great accuracy, and others probably suffer from that performance "weakness" I just described above. Usually, as with anything, you get what you pay for. If you come out of pocket for a top dollar nice piston upper it will probably have you bragging all over town about it.
I forgot about the cone shape of the cartridge. Thanks for the comments on the piston driven vs gas impingement options. I really don't know which is better. I was thinking that the piston would keep the receiver cooler so the lacquer on the russion cartridge doesn't gum up the chamber.

I'm sure that there are a number of compromises on both sides. I understand that the Russian SKS with a barrel that screws in is more accurate than a Yugo or Chinese rifle with a pinned barrel. That may make the AR more accurate in its own right.

For what it matters, my buddy's SKS uses a 16" barrel with a 2" compensator. I would be interested to know if an 18" barrel would improve range and accuracy of the round in an AR as a hog and deer gun.

Thank you again.
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2011, 7:21 AM
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Ok, checked my ammo and I have been shooting Wolf Military Classic 124gr. HP and Brown Bear 123gr. FMJ. These are both polymer coated steel case ammo. I do not shoot any laquer coated ammo in my AR's.

I have a bunch of Remington green box 123gr. FMJ and PMC 122gr. FMJ that is brass cased and that I will pattern the next time I take her out (probably in a week or so). I will also try to pick up some of the yellow box UMC ammo to see how that does.

I'd really like to see what this rifle can do, so I will be sticking a scope on her and shooting from a Caldwell Lead sled for the test. I'll let you guys know my findings and I will include pics as well.
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Old 06-17-2011, 7:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerme View Post
I forgot about the cone shape of the cartridge. Thanks for the comments on the piston driven vs gas impingement options. I really don't know which is better. I was thinking that the piston would keep the receiver cooler so the lacquer on the russion cartridge doesn't gum up the chamber.

I'm sure that there are a number of compromises on both sides. I understand that the Russian SKS with a barrel that screws in is more accurate than a Yugo wrong only Chinese rifles have pinned barrels. That may make the AR more accurate in its own right.

For what it matters, my buddy's SKS uses a 16" barrel with a 2" compensator. I would be interested to know if an 18" barrel would improve range and accuracy of the round in an AR as a hog and deer gun.

Thank you again.
Yugo's are threaded and have longer barrels than both
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2011, 11:13 AM
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Cproducts didn't go under just got sold. At least to my knowledge, heck they even have a fathers day sale going on.
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  #21  
Old 06-17-2011, 5:25 PM
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[IMG][/IMG]


100 yds, Red dot, semi-benched...Wolf MP 124gr

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  #22  
Old 06-17-2011, 5:34 PM
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Just registered my DoubleStar AR 15 chambered in 7.62 by 39 mm. Ten days from now I can head to the range and let you know. I got my mags from DoubleStar but they are labeled CProducts. So DoubleStar sells the mags (10 round).
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Old 06-17-2011, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterBud View Post
Yugo's are threaded and have longer barrels than both
Thank you for setting the record straight.

I had not considered a Yugo as a boar/deer rifle because I was told that it had the pinned barrel. Is it as accurate or more accurate than the Russian? How about reliability, features and sights?

I think I read that I would need to add a number of US made parts to make it acceptable to both US and CA laws if I started removing unneccessary parts like a bayonet to reduce weight for use as a hunting rifle. Is this true?
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Old 06-17-2011, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerme View Post
Thank you for setting the record straight.

I had not considered a Yugo as a boar/deer rifle because I was told that it had the pinned barrel. Is it as accurate or more accurate than the Russian? How about reliability, features and sights?

I think I read that I would need to add a number of US made parts to make it acceptable to both US and CA laws if I started removing unneccessary parts like a bayonet to reduce weight for use as a hunting rifle. Is this true?
Don't bother, just sneak up on the deer and bayonet them to death, then you won't even have to worry about accuracy or reliability.
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Old 06-17-2011, 7:56 PM
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Don't bother, just sneak up on the deer and bayonet them to death, then you won't even have to worry about accuracy or reliability.
I was an archer as a teenager. It's hard enough to sneak up on a deer much less stab it to death. I definately don't want to try the bayonet version with an aggressive boar. Dang those tusks are dangerous.
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Old 06-17-2011, 8:21 PM
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[IMG][/IMG]


100 yds, Red dot, semi-benched...Wolf MP 124gr
Cortayak, that looks very encouraging! Thanks for posting.
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Old 06-18-2011, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerme View Post
Thank you for setting the record straight.

I had not considered a Yugo as a boar/deer rifle because I was told that it had the pinned barrel. Is it as accurate or more accurate than the Russian? How about reliability, features and sights?

I think I read that I would need to add a number of US made parts to make it acceptable to both US and CA laws if I started removing unneccessary parts like a bayonet to reduce weight for use as a hunting rifle. Is this true?


u can remove the bayo and the muzzle break for hunting purposes and the yugo dose not have a chrome lined barrel and most say a non chrome lined barrel is more accurate than a chrome lined one like the Russian. I have owned almost all the different types of sks's and have found the yugos to be most accurate if u get one with a good bore and that goes for all of the sks's
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SinisterBud View Post
[/SIZE]
u can remove the bayo and the muzzle break for hunting purposes and the yugo dose not have a chrome lined barrel and most say a non chrome lined barrel is more accurate than a chrome lined one like the Russian. I have owned almost all the different types of sks's and have found the yugos to be most accurate if u get one with a good bore and that goes for all of the sks's
Thank you Sir.

I liked shooting my friend's Russian SKS. It seems to be </= 1 MOA rifle at 200 yards with grouping arond the size of a quarter or fifty cent peice. If the Yugo is better than that, all the better.

Anything to look for with an SKS?
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:47 AM
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Just get a .308 AR and call it a day. How's that?
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default Thread Hijack Alert!

Hey guys, it looks like this thread has been hijacked, since my original inquiry was about the accuracy of an AR with a 7.62x39 upper.

I kindly request that you continue your discussion regarding all things SKS/AK in another thread. Thanks.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattole View Post
Cortayak, that looks very encouraging! Thanks for posting.
I got the upper off of calguns......JohnnyUSA link: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=315357


Good luck with what your looking for...............
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Old 06-18-2011, 2:09 PM
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Thanks for the link, cortayak. I think there is a 7.62 AR upper in my future..
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Old 06-18-2011, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattole View Post
Hey guys, it looks like this thread has been hijacked, since my original inquiry was about the accuracy of an AR with a 7.62x39 upper.

I kindly request that you continue your discussion regarding all things SKS/AK in another thread. Thanks.
Its probably because most people relate the 7.62x39 to sks/ak type platform. With the $ your going to spend on the 2 odd ball uppers, you could get yourself a ar-10, and be better off.
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Old 06-18-2011, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOELKY View Post
Its probably because most people relate the 7.62x39 to sks/ak type platform. With the $ your going to spend on the 2 odd ball uppers, you could get yourself a ar-10, and be better off.
Since you have no idea what the rifle(s) will be used for, you have nothing to go on for making a recommendation. Since I know what they will be used for, I know you are incorrect.
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Old 06-18-2011, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattole View Post
Since you have no idea what the rifle(s) will be used for, you have nothing to go on for making a recommendation. Since I know what they will be used for, I know you are incorrect.
Why don't you clear that up then. What will they be used for? I'm sure someone on here WILL have a better recommendation than me in that case.
Do you practice shooting everyone down who just try's to lend an opinion?
As far as me being incorrect, check my sig line.....
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Old 06-19-2011, 3:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOELKY View Post
Why don't you clear that up then. What will they be used for? I'm sure someone on here WILL have a better recommendation than me in that case.
Do you practice shooting everyone down who just try's to lend an opinion?
As far as me being incorrect, check my sig line.....
You didn't lend your opinion, you didn't answer his question, you just started to shot off from your mouth! Who are you? Move on........thanks!
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Old 06-19-2011, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattole View Post
Hey guys, it looks like this thread has been hijacked, since my original inquiry was about the accuracy of an AR with a 7.62x39 upper.

I kindly request that you continue your discussion regarding all things SKS/AK in another thread. Thanks.
Sorry if I appeared to hijack your discussion. I too am interested in in the 7.62x39 upper as my friend has a surplus of ammo.

My intention was to understand the best option of barrel and upper design with older surplus military 'x39 ammo.

I only brought up the Russian SKS because:
1) the Russian SKS with a screwed in barrel was supposed to be more accurate than a SKS with a pinned barrel
2) The Russian SKS accuracy at 200 yards seemed to be reasonable in my hands and the AR should be at least as accurate
3) I shared that my friend's Russian SKS uses a 16" barrel, chrome lined barrel as a standard for accurancy of the round
4) Because the SKS is a piston driven system and old Russian ammo is lacquer coated, I was not sure if the gas impingement AR upper would have problems with cartridges becoming stuck in the chamber
5) I was also under the impression that a chrome lined barrel might be required to minimize the issue of "stuck" cartridges, however chrome lined barrels are supposed to be less accurate vs non-chrome lined barrels
6) My local gunsmith told me to stay away from steel cased ammo with my AR as he is often asked to remove jammed 5.56 cartridges in the chamber of other ARs

I learned the following from the discussion which I hope is valuable to others:
1) I was under a false impression about the design of the Yugo SKS
2) The YUGO does not use a chrome lined barrel meaning that I may not need a chrome-lined barrel for the AR to minimize jamming
3) The cone shape of the cartridge may minimize cartridge jamming in the chamber
4) The SKS and AK piston systems probably keeps the chamber cooler than the gas impingement system of the AR, so I don't yet know if a gas impingement upper will cause issues with older lacquered ammo
5) The Yugo may use a longer barrel than the Russian's 16" barrel and I have been wondering if a 16", 18" or 20" barrel on the AR would provide the best performance.

I am still waiting to learn about accuracy and reliablity of the round in AR uppers with various barrel lengths, barrel lengths, twist and land configurations. I am mainly interested in the effective range of the the round for boar and deer hunting. I also wish to learn if a piston driven system will be required to shoot large volumes of 7.62x39 steel case ammo at one time without cartridges becoming stuck in the AR's chamber.

I appologize that I asked about legally stripping a SKS down to a lighter weight platform for hunting. I will try to remember to split up threads to appropriate topics in the future.

Best regards
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