#201
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Thanks. When I say "earned", I mean living your life as Christ taught (to the best of your ability), and not by following arbitrary religious dogma invented by men who wanted to control our beliefs.
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#203
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By acting as Jesus taught, people can absolutely earn a place in heaven, even if that isn't why they act the way they do. Last edited by theLBC; 11-21-2017 at 1:02 PM.. |
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well your argument clearly goes against Gods word. No one can act to earn, at least according to scriptures. You can't earn something you don't deserve, you can only accept it as a gift
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#205
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While it may not be your decision (whether God accepts you into heaven) it certainly isn't completely out of your hands as to whether or not you might deserve that gift. of course, you are entitled to disagree. If what we do or how we act has no bearing on our afterlife, there isn't much incentive to do the right thing. |
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Now this is an interesting thread. Begins with the Reformation, then digresses into the iconoclast controversy, then on to the canon of Scripture and winds its way through comparative religion. The posts range from fairly thoughtful to breathtakingly idiotic. I find it incredibly presumptuous for people to tell God who God can let into heaven and who God cannot. Or people who presume to have the authority to judge who is a Christian and who is not. Also cringeworthy are the folks who rip verses of scripture out of context and pile them one on top of the other until they prove that they and they alone are the only true believer alive today. Breathtaking.
But this one post stands out as the most ironic Calguns post of the century.
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“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch 22 |
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/thread
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#208
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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unfortunately you didn't see where he went to, he went to he can earn his salvation, so the thread didn't end where you hoped it would. Work as hard as you want, you can never earn it
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#210
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You seem to believe that i have implied a theoretical requisite list of tasks, which if completed, would earn a soul's entrance into heaven. i said no such thing. " When I say "earned", I mean living your life as Christ taught (to the best of your ability), and not by following arbitrary religious dogma invented by men who wanted to control our beliefs." if you are hung up on semantics, you may prefer: one must follow the teachings of Christ, if he hopes to "receive" the gift of eternal salvation. /and if he does make it to heaven, he earned it. Last edited by theLBC; 11-21-2017 at 8:42 PM.. |
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This thread be
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Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom. George Patton |
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Are you talking about Christianity the religion which follows the teachings of Jesus like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick, giving shelter to the homeless, and visiting the prisoner?
Or Christianity the nationalistic/political movement which votes for a child molester over a Democrat?
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“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch 22 |
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Some say that he once mooned two prostitutes just for a round of drinks, but wasn't surprised by the reply......They call him, the Hutch Some say that he rode a dirtbike 7k miles across the country and that he once applied Bengay to his own testicles for a mere $50............They call him, the Hutch -Top Gear http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/...CCAB7CE8D70F60 |
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Seems to me any pretense that Republicans or evangelicals occupied the moral high ground has been shown to be farcical at best, a cruel and vicious deception at worst.
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“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch 22 Last edited by RozaShanina; 11-22-2017 at 9:23 AM.. |
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Your guilt maybe a secret that only you know which doesn't make it any better in our Makers eyes. Your guilt maybe be paraded in public, like Charlie Rose, John Conyers. or Al Franken. Doesn't matter, guilt is guilt, and is it not the Dems who fight for 'womens' right, but in this new sexual impropriety eruption seem to be those that abuse women the most? Seems to me any pretense that Dems or atheist evangelicals occupied the 'fighting for womens rights' high ground have been shown to be farcical at best, a cruel and vicious deception at worst. See how this works? No one is without guilt!
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; Last edited by colossians323; 11-22-2017 at 4:00 PM.. |
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If to follow the Bible as written, you need to accept Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior, and try as best you can to follow his teachings, but you cannot earn your way into Heaven by good works alone, the Bible says basically Nobody gets to God but through Jesus Christ, also the good things you do on earth it's best to do them in secret, between you and God, for if you boast about the good works you've done then you already got your reward on earth and you don't get them twice so best you do it out of Love and Commitment to Jesus's teachings and not to do it so people can see...
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Want to Buy or Trade my guns for COLT -Kodiak-Grizzly-Pythons-Diamondbacks -Troopers- 38 supers- King Cobras -Let's work out a deal! "You Can't believe everything you read on the internet, sometimes people try and make you out to look the fool" -Abraham Lincoln |
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Definition of earn: to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to
if there are requirements for salvation (which everyone seems to agree) than a chance for salvation must be earned. |
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Repentance and faith are the requirements for salvation. These are both superceded by regeneration which leads to repentance and faith. Therefore no works or earning are even possible for salvation in Christ.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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if there are requirements, than you absolutely must earn a chance at salvation through Christ. you may not attain salvation through works alone, however there are minimal requirements to qualify (per your post), and thus you must earn those qualifications. repentance is not given. Last edited by theLBC; 11-22-2017 at 1:03 PM.. |
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As one can plainly see, there is no opportunity to be saved by works.
Ephisians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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1. Bob doesn't believe in God. He has no faith, and hates religion. He's heard of Jesus, but thinks it is made up. He does whatever he wants, regardless of how it affects others. He has broken every commandment in the bible. He is sorry for nothing. 2. Roger believes in Jesus after reading the bible. He devotes his life to helping others. He repents his sins and tries his best to follow the teachings of Christ. Do these two men have an equal chance of being given eternal life? If not, why not? |
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Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. Bob heard but didn't believe. Roger heard and believed. I don't understand what chance has to do with it. Can you elaborate for my clarification please.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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Which is more likely to receive the gift of salvation, and why?
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As has been stated, there is no chance in salvation. According to your scenario, Bob is not going to heaven. He's going to hell. He has rejected God (Romans 1:18-24). Roger *might* be going to heaven depending on an addition piece information not there - does he think that any part of his "helping others" or "follow the teachings of Christ" are NECESSARY to get him into heaven. If he believes that they are necessary, he's not getting in (Matthew 7:21-23; Ephesian 2:8-9). If he believes that they are not necessary but are a result of salvation (Eph. 2:10) that He does in appreciation of the free gift of salvation (2 Cor. 5:9), then he's a true disciple of Christ and will spend eternity in heaven.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Well, we've come a long way in this thread.
“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” – John 14:21 People often confused works of obedience with works of merit. Being obedient to the Lord’s commands does not mean we are earning our way in to heaven. We will never do and can never do anything to earn our way. But God has told us that we must obey, and He told us what me must do. "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation" - Hebrews 5:9 In Acts 2. when Peter preached his first sermon he told the people that Christ had died for their sins. After Peter finished preaching, the people said, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Peter told them to “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” In Acts 9 and 22, Saul was struck blind. Christ appeared to him. He told Saul, “Get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” Paul arrives in Damascus where Ananias told Saul what to do. “Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.” In Acts 16 Paul and Silas were in jail when the jailer asked of them, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And their answer, ““Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” But more than that, he and his household were immediately baptized. As James 2 states, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone,” there is something that must be done. Even those who truly believe that salvation comes only by faith have to admit that faith is indeed work. It is not a mere mental choice to believe. But the Bible never states that salvation comes by any one thing alone. John 8:24, Acts 16:31, Hebrews 11:6 all state that we must believe to be saved. But! The Bible is not further silent on salvation. Luke 13:3; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30 all tell us we must also repent. Romans 10:9 tells us "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." In Matthew 10:32, Jesus tells us the same. And then, Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 22:16 all tell us the same thing. Whether by the words of Jesus or Peter it is just as important, and these words tell us that it is needed, not only for our sins to be washed away, but for our salvation, that we be baptized. These are things we must do. If we are told we must believe to be saved, does that mean what Jesus says about confessing His name, or repenting, or being baptized is not important? We cannot discount any part of the word of God that is a command for His church. If we are told to believe in one part of the new convenant, and told to repent in another, then we must do both. “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” – John 14:15
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Mark 16:16 Last edited by WASR10; 11-22-2017 at 2:44 PM.. |
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John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him. So you admit that Roger has earned consideration, while Bob, in rejecting Christ, has not. Last edited by theLBC; 11-22-2017 at 2:54 PM.. |
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#229
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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so OP, if you don't consider the members of the Church of Rome to be Christians, where do Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches stand?
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#231
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Ah. I see. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate you taking the time. First, neither is more likely. Neither are worthy. Neither are owed. Both are deserving of Hell. Not salvation. Again, as Ephesians says, Salvation is of God not of any mans works. At salvation God imputes Christ's righteousness to the believer such that the believer desires to do God's good works.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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Since most people in the world aren't followers of Jesus, this means that hell must be more crowded than the 10 freeway at rush hour. The Jews, Muslims, Mormons, J.W.'s, some say Catholics, plus all the Eastern and African types are all doomed. That being said you can see why most young people, and by that I mean under forty types are leaving in droves. In a modern Western society the idea of exclusion, doesn't sell well anymore. This is why in Christian circles you are seeing churches trying to tweak their doctrine. When no one fills in the church, the church goes away. Now for those who say, it doesn't matter, it does to the priests, pastors, t.v. preachers etc. since that really affects their bottom line. Since the sixties we have seen drastic changes, and most of these changes have come with more information, and also the idea of equality that some belief systems cannot accept without going against their book.
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#233
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He says sure stack the deck chairs. Would stacking the chairs make you any more saved? No you are already saved. You do it out of gratitude not to pay for your rescue. Christ paid the price already. Quote:
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. Matthew 7:13
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“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.” - James Burgh |
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#235
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You have a chance for salvation, only through the grace of god, but if you are required to do or believe anything to have it, than you must earn salvation. Does somebody have to accept Christ as their savior to go to heaven? If so, you are putting a requirement on salvation that must be completed in order to earn salvation. Last edited by theLBC; 11-28-2017 at 3:09 PM.. |
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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Well maybe you should read deeper?
Doesn't matter what you have done or when you have come to repentance, the thief on the cross shows that in his final hour, as does the parable I posted.
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#239
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what you are inferring is that everybody is saved and goes to heaven, no matter what they do or say.
sorry, but my interpretation of the bible is starkly different. but then, the bible is full of contradictions... |
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IF you say yes, it obviously was not LBC dying for your sins, so what did you do for your salvation? You did not live a blameless or sinless life? You did not hang on a tree, You did not get pierced, you did not get beaten. you did not feel the pain of an eternity of sins, what did you do for your salvation? Christ did what you could not do, you did nothing for your salvation
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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