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  #1  
Old 12-06-2017, 2:07 PM
pethouse pethouse is offline
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Default TRP : "National Match frame and slide". What year did this start ?

Just wondering when this claim started. I know it is not in reference to (has nothing to do with) the "NM" on the serial #.

TRP™ level quality starts with the forged national match frame and slide. These are precision fit and then mated with a national match stainless steel barrel and bushing.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series/

Thank you

Last edited by pethouse; 12-06-2017 at 4:26 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2017, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pethouse View Post
Just wondering when this claim started. I know it is not in reference to the "NM" on the serial #.

TRP™ level quality starts with the forged national match frame and slide. These are precision fit and then mated with a national match stainless steel barrel and bushing.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series/

Thank you
The loaded and gi models have nm prefix in the serial number as well.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2017, 3:33 PM
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I have no idea when it started but I have an early Loaded (single side safety, pinned front sight) that I bought it 2000 which has a serial number that starts with a N, but no following M.
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Old 12-06-2017, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pethouse View Post

[I]TRP™ level quality starts with the forged national match frame and slide. These are precision fit and then mated with a national match stainless steel barrel and bushing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by keith1911 View Post
I have no idea when it started but I have an early Loaded (single side safety, pinned front sight) that I bought it 2000 which has a serial number that starts with a N, but no following M.
I believe SCG's reference has to do with earlier Spingers before they moved production facilities. The older ones tended to be NM prefixed.

My Milspec (GI) which I purchased in '88 is NM prefixed.
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Old 12-06-2017, 5:20 PM
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They are not precision fit. That would cost them too much $$ in labor. My TRP Full Rail had slight slide wobble, a co-workers had none. Some other co-works had slop in their full rails, some didn't. Take springfields claim on fitted anything like a grain of salt, EXCEPT their "professional" line of 1911's.
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Old 12-07-2017, 9:04 AM
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Not sure of the date but TRPs get extra attention over the run of the mill assembly. There is a number (usually part of the frame's serial #) etched on the TRP barrels. That barrel is matched to that particular frame. Not exactly sure how much hand fitting goes into them.

The NM prefix used to mean finished and assembled in USA as opposed to N prefix assembled in Brazil by Embel. that is for all models. All frames were made in Brazil any ways.

But, recently I heard they moved the production of frames to US. Not sure if that actually happened or not. If so, then Perhaps the NM means forged and assembled in US. Anything with N serial number has the " IMBEL Brazil" roll marked on the right side of the slide next to the serial number.
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Old 12-07-2017, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidad01 View Post
Not sure of the date but TRPs get extra attention over the run of the mill assembly. There is a number (usually part of the frame's serial #) etched on the TRP barrels. That barrel is matched to that particular frame. Not exactly sure how much hand fitting goes into them.
All current production Springfield 1911's have the last 3 of the serial number eteched on the inside of the slide with an engraving pencil. The slides are paired to the frame during fitting and assembly. It does not imply any special attention to detail.

The NM Frames are made in the USA.

All production pistols receive the same amount of fit, The TRP model is additional cost for additional features. Literally all of their guns, including the GI models, are advertised with a "match" barrel. Allegedly the TRP has a tighter fit bushing but I'd say that is poppycock. You do get a slightly lighter trigger.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:09 AM
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Forgive my ignorance but what is a National Match frame and slide? I’m familiar with the Colt National Match but that’s a model.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:26 AM
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Thanks guys, but my question is specific to the claim that Springfield says on their website that I quoted .. about "TRP frames and slides" being "National Match quality".

I just wanted to know when Springfield started saying this.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 808@515 View Post
Forgive my ignorance but what is a National Match frame and slide? I’m familiar with the Colt National Match but that’s a model.
I was wondering about this too. Heard of NM as a model but never as having specific tolerances.

I do not remember seeing specs for National Match frames and slides for any gun. That is just a marketing term to me. It probably means they pick the better ones after forging and replace the milling machine's cutting tool more often to get a tighter fit.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:12 PM
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I think NM does NOT stand for "National Match" and saying that the gun is "National Match" sounds like marketing talk

Here's a write up of what "National Match" means;

In a nutshell though, there was a particular pistol competition, which I think was a US Army competition. US Army armorers built up Colts to be supremely accurate for this particular match... so those are "National Match" pistols, but then Colt itself made specially fancy-pants guns and sold them as "National Match" pistols too.


https://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2017, 1:17 PM
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The Springfield Custom guns like the Professional are custom built and almost everything is hand fit.

The standard Springfield guns like the TRP are production guns with machined parts to minimize hand fitting. They are not "precision fit".

This does not mean that the standard guns are low quality or poor shooters, but they certainly are in a different league than the customs.
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Old 12-08-2017, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pethouse View Post
Thanks guys, but my question is specific to the claim that Springfield says on their website that I quoted .. about "TRP frames and slides" being "National Match quality".

I just wanted to know when Springfield started saying this.
When they figured people would pay more for it...
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I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:19 PM
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Here is an article I have on the TRP with quotations from Dave Williams, the Custom Shop Director of Springfield.
https://www.tactical-life.com/combat...eld-trp-45acp/

Quote from the article:
"According to Springfield’s website, “The TRP standard line is designed around the same specifications as the FBI contract pistol the Professional Model. It offers nearly the same performance at a fraction of the cost.” I called Dave Williams, director of the Custom Shop, to get the full story on the TRP. Williams pointed out that the TRP is not a Custom Shop product. However, it is hand built by some of Springfield’s most experienced gunsmiths.

Gun Details
According to Williams, Springfield TRP production starts in a similar manner as the Professional. The gunsmith receives a semi-finished, hand-forged National Match frame and slide, and individually cut the rails, drill the pinholes, and fit the slide by hand lapping it to the frame. The result of this attention is a slide to frame fit that has zero vertical or horizontal play. The TRP has a match-grade Springfield barrel that is fitted to a match-grade bushing making the pistol more than capable of providing superb accuracy and reliability. The match grade trigger is aluminum and fitted with an overtravel stop. The trigger pull on my sample broke cleanly at 4.5 pounds with no overtravel. As with the Professional, the TRP features a magazine well extension, checkered front strap, beavertail grip safety, and ambidextrous extended safety. The grips are unique to the TRP line. They are made from a G10 composite with a snakeskin like texture and feature a relief cut on the left panel to improve access to the magazine release. "


Enjoy.
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Old 12-10-2017, 7:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Here is an article I have on the TRP with quotations from Dave Williams, the Custom Shop Director of Springfield.
https://www.tactical-life.com/combat...eld-trp-45acp/

Quote from the article:
"According to Springfield’s website, “The TRP standard line is designed around the same specifications as the FBI contract pistol the Professional Model. It offers nearly the same performance at a fraction of the cost.” I called Dave Williams, director of the Custom Shop, to get the full story on the TRP. Williams pointed out that the TRP is not a Custom Shop product. However, it is hand built by some of Springfield’s most experienced gunsmiths.

Gun Details
According to Williams, Springfield TRP production starts in a similar manner as the Professional. The gunsmith receives a semi-finished, hand-forged National Match frame and slide, and individually cut the rails, drill the pinholes, and fit the slide by hand lapping it to the frame. The result of this attention is a slide to frame fit that has zero vertical or horizontal play. The TRP has a match-grade Springfield barrel that is fitted to a match-grade bushing making the pistol more than capable of providing superb accuracy and reliability. The match grade trigger is aluminum and fitted with an overtravel stop. The trigger pull on my sample broke cleanly at 4.5 pounds with no overtravel. As with the Professional, the TRP features a magazine well extension, checkered front strap, beavertail grip safety, and ambidextrous extended safety. The grips are unique to the TRP line. They are made from a G10 composite with a snakeskin like texture and feature a relief cut on the left panel to improve access to the magazine release. "


Enjoy.
That is indeed interesting. Thank you for posting that.
I have several examples of SA 1911-type sidearms with the "NM" serial prefix, going back to at least 1987. The original factory boxes say "Made in Brazil". They cost $289 from my saved ad from the L.A. Slimes. Some of my SA "Linkless" models in different color variations from that era also have the same prefix.
I find the SA Professional model to be of excellent quality, closer to a Nighthawk, with a bit more precise fitting than the TRP variations.
Back in the day, if you wanted a "comp gun", and could not afford to hack on a Colt series 70, you bought a SA, and had your gunsmith work it over. The major rise of the cottage industry 1911 semi-custom production lines, from various manufacturers started some time after this, when it was determined that a viable and growing market for the ancient 1911 platform could sell product. Yea, there were a few prior to that, but not many. Now it seems like everyone produces some variation. And overall quality seems to be good for most.
Sure makes for a wide field for those of us who are into collecting clones.
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2017, 8:15 AM
XDJYo XDJYo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
That is indeed interesting. Thank you for posting that.

I have several examples of SA 1911-type sidearms with the "NM" serial prefix, going back to at least 1987. The original factory boxes say "Made in Brazil". They cost $289 from my saved ad from the L.A. Slimes. Some of my SA "Linkless" models in different color variations from that era also have the same prefix.

I find the SA Professional model to be of excellent quality, closer to a Nighthawk, with a bit more precise fitting than the TRP variations.

Back in the day, if you wanted a "comp gun", and could not afford to hack on a Colt series 70, you bought a SA, and had your gunsmith work it over. The major rise of the cottage industry 1911 semi-custom production lines, from various manufacturers started some time after this, when it was determined that a viable and growing market for the ancient 1911 platform could sell product. Yea, there were a few prior to that, but not many. Now it seems like everyone produces some variation. And overall quality seems to be good for most.

Sure makes for a wide field for those of us who are into collecting clones.


For me, the Professional is my “Grail” gun. My first pistol was a SA Loaded (NM). Excellent gun! That started my love affair with the 1911. Graduated to a Les Baer Premier II and that’s my current fave and only 1911 in the stable. For whatever reason, the Ed Browns, Wilson’s and Nighthawks don’t appeal to me much. Odd I know.

There was a shop, Alchemy Custom, that made Professional clones out of SA GI models. Rob would put his own spin on a few things, but they looked quite awesome! He’s over at Cabot now. The 1911 world misses him.
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Old 12-10-2017, 6:47 PM
pethouse pethouse is offline
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XDJYo ..Thanks for the article referencing the TRP having a "National Match frame and slide". It's dated Feb 2009, so its reasonable to assume that at least as early as 2008 Springfield has been making that claim.

"Blue Book" states the TRP model began in 1999, but those were Brazil stamped guns, and my research indicates those earlier ones were a different TRP version than current TRPs. So, perhaps when they began doing frame cutting and fitting in the USA, they also started quoting this "National Match" claim. My WAG is that this would be at the same time they started with the NM prefixed frames. **I am not suggesting "NM" means National Match

Thanks all, not trying to beat it to death, and don't really care about if/what the "NM" actually stands for, if anything meaningful at all.

Last edited by pethouse; 12-10-2017 at 6:58 PM..
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Old 12-10-2017, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pethouse View Post
XDJYo ..Thanks for the article referencing the TRP having a "National Match frame and slide". It's dated Feb 2009, so its reasonable to assume that at least as early as 2008 Springfield has been making that claim.

"Blue Book" states the TRP model began in 1999, but those were Brazil stamped guns, and my research indicates those earlier ones were a different TRP version than current TRPs. So, perhaps when they began doing frame cutting and fitting in the USA, they also started quoting this "National Match" claim. My WAG is that this would be at the same time they started with the NM prefixed frames. **I am not suggesting "NM" means National Match

Thanks all, not trying to beat it to death, and don't really care about if/what the "NM" actually stands for, if anything meaningful at all.


No worries. I find the history behind some of these production guns very fascinating. I doubt the NM stands for National Match as much as the N stands for anything. Just a serial number prefix to designate where the frames were source and finished iirc.
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