|
Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Saiga 12 Illegal in California?
I was just talking to a local gun shop here in northern california, "Shooters Paradise" , and was told by there sales men that and box fed shot guns are illegal in CA (the saiga 12). I then asked well isnt it legal as long as there is a BB present and he continued to still say there illegal.
Whats the word guys? I felt like sayin well my mossberg 500 is box fed because my shells come in one ... but didnt wanna be a smart @$$! |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
if they are illegal with a mag-lock present, there are a lot of CA residents that are going to jail.
If it has a maglock, it doesn't have a detachable magazine, so at that point, you only have to worry about having the wrong combination of evil features. Look at my shotgun flowchart for more info how it all works, http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Is it just me, or does it seem that 90% of the FUD being spread around is from the "experts" who work at gun shops! I am tired of being fed the same crap over and over again from these guys. I get this a lot, and about different things, but always UNTRUE! How do these guys who work with guns and sell guns for a living stay out of jail with such a poor grasp of the laws. This is just a hobby for me, so I learn what I can in my spare time. If I did this for a living, I'd know my $#!+ because it would be my job! (This is referring to SOME, NOT ALL gun shop "experts") |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
So he should be wise! If he is absent minded, then he should retire before he makes a mistake and ends up in trouble with the law. Age should have nothing to do with it.
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Another person misinformed..... dear lord....
__________________
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.” ― Mahatma Gandhi "A bullet sounds the same in every language..." ― Stewie Griffin (Family Guy Episode: Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story 2005) |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
ATF has NEVER banned S12s on a Federal level and they sure don't ban weapons on a state level. Ca DOJ may have sent something out which either he misunderstood or is just completely wrong. Either way, he is incorrect. The S12 is legal in Ca as long as it does not have a detachable magazine.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
can't have both a pistol grip AND a collapsible stock. You can pick one or the other. So you can permanently pin the stock and be fine.
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
unfortunately this is often true, easier to just scare the person by saying that it is illegal vs. explaining that they don't carry them, for whatever reason.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Generally speaking, if someone at a gun store tells you something about gun laws, you can be confident it's a load of crap. It's very refreshing to see places like RifleGear, Straightline Tactical and others coming on line who challenge this hoary old truism.
__________________
Lucy at www.mesatactical.com |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
As for all the other gun stores that like to spread their own version of california gun laws you will NEVER get my support. I refuse to shop for my guns and gun related stuff there or do a PPT or tell anyone I know to shop there. While I know I personally will not even make a dent in your profits, my money will never go to supporting your store. But believe me word of mouth spreads pretty quick. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
It is always interesting when you read about your evil doings by those in "the know'
I would be the old senile fud speading lazy greedy ought to retire foolish need to be educated ( let me know if I missed anything ) FFl holder in question. First of all I told the OP that detachable box fed shootguns are illegal as per: 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: ...... (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. As per MY DOJ inspector it is HIS understanding that the case law that has been applied to AR type rifles has yet to be tested in court. As such, I have chosen not to import them until such time as the person who can shut down my operation believes that it does indeed apply to semiautomatic shotguns. I have had many quality hours sitting with both ATF and DOJ going through each and every transaction between inspections. I will look at you anonymous talking heads and giggle until you pony up the money, time and grief I go through to fight the anti gunners in this state and keep my shop open. As to the OP do the research then come in and ask and understand the question that you are asking and carfully listen to the answer.
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
Instead of DoJ and ATF agents, you should probably be getting your advice from attorneys specializing in firearms law. Of course, the DoJ and ATF advice is free, and the attorneys' advice isn't. But I guess you get what you pay for. There is also a difference between saying, "I do not believe that is a legal configuration and so I will not be carrying those shotguns in my shop," and "That is an illegal configuration and if you buy that shotgun from another dealer you will go to jail." It certainly pays to be careful when you are in the business you are in. But you are throwing business away by not acquainting yourself with the legal realities. Right now the most successful FFLs in California are making good business (and in some cases avoiding going out of business) by selling black rifles. In Southern California even the largest and most conservative FFLs, Turners and Fowlers are doing it. It's definitely something every California FFL should take a closer look at.
__________________
Lucy at www.mesatactical.com |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
SEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
SA TRP Half rail, Glock 21SF, Spikes St-15, Ruger Alaskan .44, Saiga 7.62, GSSF Member Diablo Rod & Gun Club Quote:
|
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
There are 3 kinds of people in this world. The wise, learn from the mistakes of others. The smart, learn from their own mistakes. The others, well......they just never learn. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!" Patrick Henry. |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
You guy's continue to make assumptions as you point out things that were discussed between the OP and I in my store. I see no need to to post a transcript of the conversation ( besides my transcriptionist was on break).
You guy's with the deep pockets come on up to my store and spot me a couple of hundred K so I can piss off my regional inspector so he can write me up for every little mistake and eventually close me down, then I can take BOF to court....oh wait... this is an academic exercise for you, I do it for a living. Among your assumptions is that I don't do black rifles.... oops the entire wall behind me when I was talking to OP was covered in them. All sarcasm aside guy's, I have an above average grasp of the law and the issues surrounding these rifles. More than one individual has reported to BOF that i am selling assault rifles. When the enforcement agents, along with the paperwork agents, were waiting in my parking lot for me to open so I didn't hide all my offending guns. They went home empty handed. Look, the OP came into my store and I obviously did not clarify my point of view to him. I apologize to HIM for that, but some of you lighten up a bit or your going to stroke out.
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#27
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Funny how other owner operator shops without deep pockets don't need to spend 200K to sell legal firearms. Maybe a simple phone call to his supervisor would clear things up? Would that cost $200K? Again, I don't blame you for choosing not to sell certain firearms. In fact, I'm glad we live in a country where we have the freedom to choose how we conduct bussiness and I respect your right to do so. The fact that you are scared and intimidated by your auditor's lack of knowledge amazes me. It sounds like you don't want "any problems" and you are willing to give up certain freedoms under the guize of "safety". That's your choose but, it is also how socialism is taking over this country. Enjoy your rights while you have them. Hopefully, enough other people are willing to stand up and fight for your rights so you can keep them.
BTW, the only assumptions which I or anyone else has made here are based on what both you and the OP have stated here. If both of you correctly stated your position on all detachable box fed mag shotguns, you were clearly wrong. Not only are the bolt action shotguns legal here, there are also pump action shotguns with detachable box fed mags which are legal. If you and the OP ommitted the fact that you specifically stated only semi auto detachable mag shotguns are considered AWs (even AWs are not illegal if they are RAWs) then, yea, we are inncorrectly assuming things based on your ommitting the facts.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 07-27-2011 at 7:51 AM.. |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Careful... 530-673-4100 Call me up and educate me on how you run your shop. Educate me on how you were able to extrapolate from the OP's question so much information that you feel that you can enlighten the subject being discussed.
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
...and my beard is turning gray and my hairline is receding
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
ok....sorry guy's I tried to walk past this bee's nest and not wack it with a stick....but it was just sitting there humming, peacefully... I know it a personality flaw...I'll stop now....LMAO
__________________
Lee F. Smith Managing Partner Shooters Paradise LLC. 1407A Colusa ave Yuba City, CA 95993 NRA-ILA EVC for Butte County California. |
#32
|
||||
|
||||
pinned??
i have a moss 500 with a knoxx telescoping stock and factory 8 shot tube, according to what i think your saying, about the pinned stock,the pistol grip and the adjustable stock makes mine illegal?? p.f.
Last edited by patrick fox; 07-27-2011 at 4:02 PM.. Reason: punct |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Do you have a Mossberg 500 semi auto? I suggest reading California's AW laws instead of just blindly believing what you read on the internet. You're fine unless you have a one of a kind semi auto 500. If you do, please post pictures of it.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#34
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I swear sometimes Calgunners spread as much FUD about shops and how the people behind the counter are as the shops do about what is and is not legal in the state. The information is out there for anyone to get and see. |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
I've spent a lot of time and money at Shooters Paradise. I bought my first 3 OLL's there, all Doublestars, for a fairly reasonable price, back when it was Robert's place. That was in 06, right at the beginning of the OLL's becoming available if I remember right, end of 07 at the very latest. They're definitely not a shop that runs scared everytime DOJ pops their heads in the door. Lee is a pretty good guy and runs a good shop, with knowledgeable employees. Without having been there to hear the conversation, I'm thinking there was some minor miscommunication.
Lee, I'll swing by and use the range next time I'm in town, since it's the only indoor range I've ever been to that doesn't have the cable machine in the way of my head! (...quite a bit taller than the average guy out there, and the target return machines are generally at my shoulders and in the way) |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
I just bought a Krebs Custom Saiga 12 from a Bay Area gun store. It's in jail now
Can't wait to warm it up!
__________________
Get the Plinkr iOS App Find any Gun Store/FFL Find any Range in the USA. Find firearms training too! Curated Industry News Gun Store Gunbroker, Armslist, gun.deals, Weapon Depot Social Media Aggregator |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
moss 500
ok then, i thought my 500 pump was legal even with adj stock, , shoulda waited to post ??'s, till i saw a pic of the saga, woulda saw it was a semi auto instead of a pump,, thanx for the feed back, appreciate it!! shoot straight and shoot often!! .........
|
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Thank god my only "box fed" shotgun is also bolt action! LOL
And I love it, when I out cycle my pump shotgun friends! Practice with what you have. And yes I do that ,but the comment was sarcastic!
__________________
NRA MEMBER |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
This weeks RiverCity Gun Exchange Ad in Sacramento: Saiga 12 for $799
http://findnsave.sacbee.com/Local-Ad...?adid=11412591 |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
-A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.* *participation may vary by location. Not valid in California. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|