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  #1  
Old 05-23-2019, 12:25 PM
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Default Computer Build Guidance

I am building a replacement for my 8 year old hone built PC, but need some guidance this time around. This PC is just for e-mail, Internet surfing, Microsoft Office use, and also 4k video editing (Adobe Premier Elements), photo editing (Adobe Photoshop Elements), and Alibre 3d CAD. I intend on using the Intel i7-9700k processor. All my apps appear to make most use of high clock speed, not multiple cores.

My bigger question is on a proper motherboard. I do no gaming or simulations, which is what most recommendations are based on. What about sheer speed in NON-gaming situations...what motherboard is recommended for business use?

Phil
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2019, 11:40 AM
Angryoldwhiteman Angryoldwhiteman is offline
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Hi Phil,

I haven't built a system from scratch for awhile. In the past, Tom's Hardware has had really good information on topics that you raise.

https://www.tomshardware.com/

Hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
My bigger question is on a proper motherboard. I do no gaming or simulations, which is what most recommendations are based on. What about sheer speed in NON-gaming situations...what motherboard is recommended for business use?



Phil
Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI all make quality motherboards. I've used them all and have had no major issues with any particular brand. Simply as far as features go, this should be more than enough for what you need:

GIGABYTE Z390 UD LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard https://m.newegg.com/product/N82E16813145095?m_ver=1

It's pretty inexpensive comparatively, and if I were doing a build same as yours I wouldn't hesitate to get one. Has a PCI-E x4 m.2 slot for a super fast OS SSD, all the standard ports you're likely to use, and a 3 year warranty in case you get a dud board for some reason.

I don't know if that answers your question and I don't know what your budget is. You can spend more if you really want, but for your needs it should suffice. Of course your choice will also depend on the form factor of case you're planning to use. If you're thinking more compact, you're looking at a mini ITX or micro ATX board, in which case you'll be spending more.

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Last edited by MrFancyPants; 06-01-2019 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 06-01-2019, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancyPants View Post
Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI all make quality motherboards.
I have supported thousands of PCs with Asus and Gigabyte motherboards.
When I have seen a problem Asus support was better to deal with. I always hate dealing with a Gigabyte support.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:10 PM
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There are MANY, good You Tube video's on this matter. Watch several, ask questions.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:50 PM
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I have not built a PC for a long time, but that's because the last one I built lasted really long. I've lost count of the actual no. of years this current PC I'm using has lasted, must've been over 10 years.

The motherboard is a Gigabyte Ultra Durable type, one of those with the "UD" designator on it. Highly recommended.

This is my work and gaming PC at home too, used every day for very long hours.

One other recommendation I have for you: Get the best Power Supply Unit you can afford. The power supply is like clean drinking water for the computer, without it, it doesn't matter what else you put into the PC, they will crap out. The one I have is a Seasonic, not sure what's the current state of the market at the moment but check the reviews on Newegg.com for some idea what are some really good power supply units.
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Old 06-02-2019, 3:38 AM
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I am running a 10 year old MSI right now...
with a Phenom IIx6 1090T @3.2GHz.

MSI are all I ever built, as they never had some goofy 3rd party NEW SATA controller built in that doesn't work right.

I don't play a lot of games, but it works for everything I want to do+ TF2.

An SSD, Proc, and good video card are musts, but I am new to the FPS gaming on PCs, again.
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Old 06-02-2019, 7:19 AM
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If you're going to use the computer for CAD, video editing and photos, you might as well as build the computer to gaming specs.

Buy quality parts and it will go a long time, computers are stuck with little innovation right now. Been this way for a while. I'm sure you know this already.

I like ASUS motherboards, currently have a Z77 Sabertooth, rock solid and use a NVIDIA GTX 780 SC graphics card.
This machine has rarely been powered down over the last 8 years.
And as mentioned, buy the best, and highest wattage, power supply you can.
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2019, 9:13 PM
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The only differences between a gaming MB and non-gaming MB are amount of USB ports, fancy heatsinks, and overclocking support. You might as well build on a gaming MB.
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Old 06-03-2019, 3:01 AM
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I say do the math, but FIFY:
And as mentioned, buy the best, and highest wattage, power supply you can...
"afford to power" in the most rape-iest overage state.
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2019, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
And as mentioned, buy the best, and highest wattage, power supply you can.
Yes on the best power supply you can afford, no on the highest wattage. Far too many people spend way too much money on a power supply which is way too high wattage for what their system actually draws. You get absolutely no benefit from a 1300 watt power supply if your system only draws 600 watts. The most important thing when choosing a power supply is buying a high quality unit with a high efficiency rating, at least silver (80%+) if not gold (90%+).

If you want to be precise, look up the electrical specs for the devices you plan to connect to your PC, and make an educated guess on how many watts your system will actually draw, calculate a little room for expansion, and factor in the output power loss based on the efficiency rating.

Example, I have an overclocked Intel core i7 4790k with 24 GB RAM, 2 GTX 970s in SLI, a high performance sound card, PCI-E WiFi adapter, 3 SSDs and 2 spindle hard drives, a Blu ray writer and Blu ray/HD-DVD reader, and it's all powered by a gold rated 850-watt Corsair PSU, with room to grow.

You'd be surprised how little power your PC actually draws.

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  #12  
Old 06-06-2019, 7:44 AM
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I am the OP and thanks for the many replies. At present, my existing computer has the following. Was built in 2011.

Corsair 650D mid tower case.
Corsair TX650 power supply (650 watt, Bronze rating).
8GB G Skill Sniper memory.
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3-B3 motherboard.
Intel i5-2500k Sandy Bridge CPU (not overclocked).
XIGMATEK Gaia SD1283 120mm air cooler.
Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD.
Western Digital 1.5 terababyte 7200 rpm hard disk.
MSI MSI Radeon HD 5770 DirectX 11 R5770 Hawk Graphics card.
ASUS DVD burner.

Given changing needs and suggestions here, I have been considering the following. If not mentioned, I am not decided.

* Phanteks Enthoo Pro case. Big but roomy and do not need lots of visual flash.
* ASUS motherboard. I like ASUS products, even if my ASUS AC-87U router ran way too hot and destroyed itself in a stench of burnt electronics after power came back on following a power outage.
* 16 or 32GB of some brand of memory.
* Noctua NH-D15 air cooler.
* M.2 Nvme drive, either on motherboard or in a PCI slot and dedicated card.

Unsure on RAM, mass storage device (old WD works fine and is 7200 rpm). Graphics card is another mystery, since my 3D CAD (Alibre Design Pro) is not that demanding for what I do, and my video editing software (Adobe Premier Elements), does not appear to make use of multiple threads either. I do not play any games, so thinking high performance CPU, ample RAM, and quick drive should be priorities.

Was strongly considering the Intel i7-9700k CPU, but after Computex show, AMD looks awfully enticing, especially since Intel performance is being hurt by Spectre, Meltdown, and now Zombieland flaws and exploits. I need strong single thread performance and Intel does well here, but AMD has closed the gap it seems, though actual test results no out yet.

Ideally, the computer "box" (no monitor, etc.), would come in at $1500 tops, but if more $$$ will substantially extend life and/or performance, I would consider it.

Opinions welcome!

Phil
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:24 PM
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What is your budget? Part of my duties here is speccing out and ordering machines for our CAD detailing and engineering department. We typically buy machines from Boxx (factory overclocked w/warranty) or Dell Precision 5000 series. The Boxx machines ship with ASUS or AS Rock motherboards. Haven't had any issues with them other than the occasional smoked CPU or video card (we use Quadro cards) which their warranty replaces quickly. We have 100's of those. The Autodesk programs rely mostly on single threaded performance as opposed to multi, so more cores doesn't do a whole lot for us. The overclocked machines help but the Dells have an optimizer program that they work with the software companies and figure out what hardware tweaks are necessary for max performance. I thought it was a gimmick at first but I went to Dell and spoke with the guys who run that project. Our own internal benchmarking shows it does indeed work with stuff like Revit.

For my personal machines I was a die hard Asus user but then got some bad ones and switched to Gigabyte. Its kind of a Ford/Chevy thing... everyone has their favorite brands. Just helped a guy here build an i9 system, OC'd, 2080, all that stuff... went with a Gigabyte board.

Edit: didn't notice your budget in the later thread. Your budget should be fine for what you are looking at but you didn't mention a video card...
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Last edited by ibanezfoo; 06-11-2019 at 12:32 PM..
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:30 PM
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Don't cheap out on your NVMe drive either... Some of the cheaper ones are just SATA drives in an M.2 package... Speed difference of around 550 for the SATA and 3200 for the Samsung NVMe
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2019, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
Don't cheap out on your NVMe drive either... Some of the cheaper ones are just SATA drives in an M.2 package... Speed difference of around 550 for the SATA and 3200 for the Samsung NVMe
Most PCI-E x4 NVMe SSDs should be in that speed range, but yeah the Samsungs are some of the highest quality and best performing. Just stay away from the QLC NAND SSDs, such as the Intel 660p. They are cheaper for a reason.

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  #16  
Old 06-12-2019, 8:53 PM
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I second Gigabyte Ultra Durable series. The Motherboard is the core of your computer, you don't want it dying on you. I've had one in my rig since 2013 and its been great
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:07 AM
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Larger recent model SSD main drive, 32 gigs memory, good video card/GPU, new generation i5, i7 or i9 with the highest clock in your budget... would be what I'd look for. Even a cheapo ADATA 3D NAND SSD is great (and blazing fast). I'd get one of those (SU800 2TB - $190). I also have four Samsung PRO's... ADATA is really good.

A quality MOBO with "Military Grade" caps or some other similar marketing description of decent spec parts.

If you ever think you'll run more than one GPU... plan ahead with the MOBO. Regardless of what people say on a gun forum, buy stuff that is highly rated and has great reviews in YOUR research.

Last edited by crufflers; 06-13-2019 at 10:09 AM..
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
I am running a 10 year old MSI right now...
with a Phenom IIx6 1090T @3.2GHz.

MSI are all I ever built, as they never had some goofy 3rd party NEW SATA controller built in that doesn't work right.

I don't play a lot of games, but it works for everything I want to do+ TF2.
MSI makes some GREAT video cards. I think I probably have an ASUS mobo, but I still have a PC with PIIX6 also. Runs DOOM and Wolfenstein II perfectly blazing fast with a Nvidia GTX1080... so I have not done the major upgrade (ditching the AM3 socket).

I think I had a GPU or two die and a case fan or two die... probably a SATA spinning drive or two die, but it is chugging along.
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Old 06-14-2019, 7:46 AM
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Thanks for your reply. I am really quite unsure on the video card, since my 3D CAD software does not demand much. I am having a hard time seeing how the Quadro series of cards is needed. Like AutoDesk, my Alibre Pro 3D CAD relies on single thread performance, hence my focus on Intel's higher clock speeds. While I may do some 4k video editing, does one really need eight cores for that, and besides, I cannot reliably determine if my video editing software would even use multiple cores.

I liked ASUS, but Gigabyte is in this eight year old machine and has been stone reliable.

Video card, and motherboard model are my question marks now, as is the COU given the new AMD series. I am especially concerned about the performance hits on Intel with MeltDown, Spectre, and Zombieload chip vulnerabilities patches.

Phil

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
What is your budget? Part of my duties here is speccing out and ordering machines for our CAD detailing and engineering department. We typically buy machines from Boxx (factory overclocked w/warranty) or Dell Precision 5000 series. The Boxx machines ship with ASUS or AS Rock motherboards. Haven't had any issues with them other than the occasional smoked CPU or video card (we use Quadro cards) which their warranty replaces quickly. We have 100's of those. The Autodesk programs rely mostly on single threaded performance as opposed to multi, so more cores doesn't do a whole lot for us. The overclocked machines help but the Dells have an optimizer program that they work with the software companies and figure out what hardware tweaks are necessary for max performance. I thought it was a gimmick at first but I went to Dell and spoke with the guys who run that project. Our own internal benchmarking shows it does indeed work with stuff like Revit.

For my personal machines I was a die hard Asus user but then got some bad ones and switched to Gigabyte. Its kind of a Ford/Chevy thing... everyone has their favorite brands. Just helped a guy here build an i9 system, OC'd, 2080, all that stuff... went with a Gigabyte board.

Edit: didn't notice your budget in the later thread. Your budget should be fine for what you are looking at but you didn't mention a video card...
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Old 06-14-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
Video card, and motherboard model are my question marks now, as is the COU given the new AMD series. I am especially concerned about the performance hits on Intel with MeltDown, Spectre, and Zombieload chip vulnerabilities patches.

Phil
Sounds like you have a handle on it. I love ASUS mobo's though my newest four systems all have the same Gigabit MOBO in them and I have had no issues. I would still buy a fancier ASUS with all bells and whistles and either an EVGA or MSI video card probably a GTX2080, preferably one of the models that includes Wolfenstein Youngblood, hahah. One of those identical systems has an cheap M.2 drive in it to utilize that slot on the MOBO and it boots the slowest of all... the others have those ADATA 3D nands which were cheaper.
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Old 06-14-2019, 8:55 AM
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op, these people build purpose built CAD/CAM/engineering workstations.

i would recommend you build out per the software you will run.

https://orbitalcomputers.com

Technical Specifications
You'll find important technical specifications for the Orbital Silenced C2000 CAD Workstation in the table below, including product details, images, dimensions, and helpful notes about configuration options. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at any time.

Components Available Options
Processor Intel Core i7 9700K 3.60GHz (4.90GHz Turbo) 8 cores, 8 threads 12MB L3 Cache
Intel Core i9 9900K 3.60GHz (5.00GHz Turbo) 8 cores, 16 threads 16MB L3 Cache
Video Card Nvidia Quadro P400 2GB GDDR5 256 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P600 2GB GDDR5 384 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P1000 4GB GDDR5 640 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P2000 5GB GDDR5 1024 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P4000 8GB GDDR5 1792 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB ECC-GDDR5x 2560 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Nvidia Quadro P6000 - 24GB GDDR5-ECC 3840 CUDA Cores - Professional Workstation GPU
Full Line of AMD FirePro Professional Workstation GPUs
Full Line of Nvidia GeForce GTX Consumer-Grade GPUs - Not recommended for SolidWorks
Chipset Features Intel Z390 - USB 3.0, USB 3.1, Intel Optane Support, 4000 MHz DDR4 Support
System Memory (RAM) Up to 64GB 2666 MHz DDR4
Dual-Channel Supported
4 RAM slots (Max of 4x16GB DDR4 Modules)
Fully user-expandable
Storage Supports a maximum of 7 internal drives: 5 x 2.5" or 2x 3.5" and 2x 2.5" SSD/HDD
Supports RAID 0 or 1 with matching 2.5" drives. RAID is configured for free upon request
2x M.2 PCI-e 32 Gbps
6x SATA-III Ports
External CD/DVD drive available (not included)
Audio 115dB SNR HD Audio Included
Creative Sound Blaster High-End PCI-e Sound Cards Available
Amplified headphone and S/PDIF digital output
External 7.1 surround sound support, 2x Headphone and 2x Microphone jacks (one of each available on front and back of case)
I/O Ports 1 HDMI output port with HDCP
6 USB 3.0 Ports
2 USB 3.1 Type-A Ports
2 Headphone Jack
2 Microphone Jack
1 Line-in Jack
4 Channel Surround Jacks
1 RJ-45 LAN (10/100/1000 Mbps) - Gigabit Ethernet Port with cFosSpeed Network Latency Manager
Ports may vary based on motherboard and case selection
Network Connectivity Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet LAN - Lowest latency option (1,000 Mbps Max)
Standard Wi-Fi and Asus 802.11ac 1300 Mbps Wi-Fi options are available
Power Supply Most reliable option standard - Corsair RM Series 550W to 750W Silent Fully Modular 80 PLUS Gold Certified
Operating System Windows 10 - 64-bit Supported
Security Full-Device Encryption available with BitLocker (Only on Windows 10 Professional)
BitLocker use with optional Trusted Platform Module (TPM) highly recommended (available in 'Accessories' section)
Dimensions 21" (l) x 9" (w) x 18.5"(h)
Weight: ~38 pounds, depending on exact configuration.
Configurations as light as 20 pounds available and recommended for international shipments.
See options under 'Case' on configuration page.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2019, 9:15 AM
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Yeah if Alibre 3d CAD is your priority and not Wolfenstein (no accounting for taste) I'd just ask Alibre... they have a customer support chat right on the requirements page... and it says DX9 is the requirement. You might not benefit from some new cutting edge gaming card. Seems like a decent gaming rig would do anything though.
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Old 06-14-2019, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
Thanks for your reply. I am really quite unsure on the video card, since my 3D CAD software does not demand much. I am having a hard time seeing how the Quadro series of cards is needed. Like AutoDesk, my Alibre Pro 3D CAD relies on single thread performance, hence my focus on Intel's higher clock speeds. While I may do some 4k video editing, does one really need eight cores for that, and besides, I cannot reliably determine if my video editing software would even use multiple cores.

I liked ASUS, but Gigabyte is in this eight year old machine and has been stone reliable.

Video card, and motherboard model are my question marks now, as is the COU given the new AMD series. I am especially concerned about the performance hits on Intel with MeltDown, Spectre, and Zombieload chip vulnerabilities patches.

Phil
In a big company your concern is valid for those vulnerabilities... They've caused us quite a bit of work making sure everything is patched up. At home, its much simpler to keep patched up so I don't know that I'd worry about it.

Our testing shows the Quadro cards aren't any faster for performance.... however, Autodesk support will blame your video card if you need help and aren't using their approved hardware. Seems like a scam but it is what it is. Get to pay $1800 for a card with equivalent or less horsepower as a $300 consumer card.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/certi...&siteID=123112
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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FWIW, Alibre support said they use GTX1080's and they work well, so GTX2080 "should be fine". Doesn't sound like they tested it though.
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Old 06-15-2019, 6:29 AM
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You will not regret getting a noctua heaksink. I have one that's over10 years old and its still going strong.

Also make sure to use Artic Silver thermal grease for the cpu/ heatsink. Can't stress this enough
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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Used Artic Silver before and it worked well. No complaints.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:39 AM
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OP

A different question

How is your old PC working for you?

Do you have enough RAM?
Is the system slow based upon the 4K video file size?


A lot of what you might need can be answered by looking at the current system.


If you old system is fine but a bit slow, you might be better off not building the top of the line system now, but spending 1/2 of that amount.

In 3 or 4 years- repeat and built to 50% of the best again.


If you old system is OK speed wise, then there is not need to spend on the fastest of the fast now as you won’t use that much power.


If you are rendering in 3D, you need the speed.



So tell us a bit about the performance needs and how / what on the current system is a bottleneck.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:45 AM
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hermosabeach hermosabeach is online now
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So I get wanting new gear......

If you were to buy a used gaming PC, what would it cost to replace the Over clocked CPU?

So some gamer spends $2800 building a gaming PC, overclocked the CPU and sells it 18 months later for $600
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