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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #321  
Old 09-27-2009, 1:19 AM
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Originally Posted by raw24 View Post
Are you willing to spent the rest of your life in jail???
How about lose your life???
Our founding fathers were.

You are only a Patriot if you win, If you lose you are a traitor.

This is really the key... How many of us will really put our lives on the line for our rights???

Many say they will , but in reality as long as there is $ in the bank and food on the table most conform to any laws whether they agree or not because it is easy. People do not want to upset thier quality of life.
Very true Im all for our rights, But Im buying a bullet button and ordering as much hand gun ammo online just in case ;0
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  #322  
Old 09-27-2009, 4:51 AM
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Stop playing the game. Stop caving in to their F.E.A.R. machine.


Throw your I.V. away.


Resist. Revolt. Repeal.
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  #323  
Old 09-27-2009, 8:12 AM
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Never give up trying. That's when they really win.
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  #324  
Old 09-27-2009, 11:11 AM
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Bodger, I mean it when I say that I'm proud to have you on board. Don't ever hesitate to reach out and pm or email me or any of the others. Thank you so much for your support- we will turn the tide here in CA!
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  #325  
Old 09-27-2009, 11:43 AM
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But ya didn't answer the question.

On your feet or on your knees?
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  #326  
Old 09-27-2009, 2:21 PM
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I agree with open carry on a Consititional point but aren't you guys forgetting the federal school zone law that also includes rifles? CCW would protect you from that. Even if we beat the LOC law don't you think these anti gun DAs and politicians would push the Feds to prosecute? Then you would be in even more hurt. That law made past the free states reps even after the first one was struck down by SCOTUS.
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Originally Posted by Eckolaker View Post
Okay now that I am no longer in /rant mode. Allow me to further elaborate.

First off, I think concentrated efforts are important. However, everyones opinions on where the effort should be placed is going to differ.

With regards to Open Carry and Concealed Carry. Those of you that want to fight for your CCW permits, great have it...However, IMHO this is the wrong direction. If the existing Open Carry laws were removed, and proper 2nd amendment rights restored, CCW is really obsolete. I can assure you far more crime is deterred through Open Carry than CCW. History proves this.

Again, I revert back to common law and practices of the past. The reasons people carry guns has not changed since their invention. 100 years ago, it was common for a man to have multiple firearms on their person. All of which were commonly open carried and in plain sight to anyone looking. In fact, those who concealed weapons were often criminals attempting to "Conceal" their crimes or intentions.

It is beyond me why people are being arrested and sent to jail in this state for legal open carry. It is also unbelievable that these bills even make it in to the legislature.

If we were focused and concentrated on maintaining our rights, our elected officials would laugh at even the notion of introducing any anti-gun bills for fear of being literally forced out of office.

These bills are nothing more then a slap in the face to true patriots. Politicians are very aware it is impossible to ram through total and sweeping gun bans. So they practice what is known as incrementalism. The frog in boiling water analogy. They know if they introduce them slowly and over a period of time, eventually they will have their way. Look at California, how long have we had our two sitting Senators?

We have not won anything with regards to the 2nd Amendment. I should not have to post this here, but I think it should be read and repeated as many times as possible...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

This is not how the 2nd amend. is viewed or judged today in a court of law. I don't care what state you are in, anyone who disagrees is ignorant.

What we have seen is a slow erosion of this. In fact in California as we all know, it is barely legal to keep and bare arms. In fact we all go through daily hassles in most cases to do so. Bullet Buttons, Ten Round mags, 10-day waits, Handgun Rosters, out of state transfers, et cetera. So to even pose the question have we won or made any progress is wrong.

We have not made any progress, unless you live in Bizarro world and two steps backwards counts as forward progress.

We have not made any progress in repealing these laws, because everyone has their own agenda. In fact, while we argue back and forth as to what we should and should not fight, they introduce more bills for us to swift our efforts towards.

As for me, I can assure you I am just as active if not more so then your average person. I don't donate to any organizations, with the exception of one. http://WeAreChange.org however, I spend more time fighting for all constitutional rights then i care to admit. I have awoken more people to the dangers we face as citizens of this great nation than I can count. I spend thousands of dollars of my own money creating fliers, DVDs, signs, postage, evidence packages (FOIA requests) for the purpose of not only awakening people and getting them active, but also constantly bombarding our elected officials with info.

I mean let's be honest here. What good is fighting for your CCW permits, when they don't want you to be able to carry a firearm period? How many bills will you allow to be introduced before you finally realize they are trying to remove our right to firearms? How long will you allow the same people to remain in office.

Everyone talks a big game, but hardly anyone can back it up. Your rights are not yours unless you exercise them. If you want your rights back, exercise them. Clog the courts with lawful Open Carry cases. Judges should be sick of hearing about people unlawfully arrested for carrying a firearm in plain view. Civil rights suits should be filed against any officer that arrests someone for lawful open carry. They should know, that you will not sue the city, or the department, you will sue them personally. Everyone here should be very educated in the current gun laws. You should follow existing laws, but exercise your damn rights before they disappear.
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  #327  
Old 09-27-2009, 5:08 PM
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Bodger, I mean it when I say that I'm proud to have you on board. Don't ever hesitate to reach out and pm or email me or any of the others. Thank you so much for your support- we will turn the tide here in CA!

Roger that Wild. Thanks.

I'm in the fight, and I hope to hoist a cold one when I have the Raddlock release party.
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  #328  
Old 09-27-2009, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by porkwithrice View Post
I am new on these forums but have recently become fed up with California's laws. The recent bill on the Governor's desk has pushed me to go and buy my first new handgun in 5 years and renew my NRA membership. The more California lawmakers push on the law abiding public the more they will anger people like me who have sat by allowing them to punish those who try and legally own their firearms. The anger and contempt I feel now for the California Govt. has moved me into action to do whatever I can to retain the few rights I still have.

Welcome to Calguns. Please continue to read and find out about how the work has been going to get our civil rights back. Jump in and help out as you can.

Take care,

JJ
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  #329  
Old 09-28-2009, 2:42 AM
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Holy crap there was a lot of catching up to do on reading this thread! Personally, I am grateful for CalGuns. I know you guys are fighting an uphill battle. I have always said allowing a new gun law in California would be like throwing a rock in a pond; causing a ripple throughout the pond. 1 BAD new gun law in California would ripple throughout America and hurting every body in America. So with saying that we can never give up here.

I am not a NRA member. Sometimes I feel they can be just as corrupt as some of the politicians we have in office. I tend to side on Gun Owners of America point of view; No Compromises. I feel that you start accepting defeat when you compromise. I do feel we are taking 1 step forward and then 3 steps back here. These Anti-gun @$$holes keep putting more and more crap on our plate to fight. I have always said to win a fight you have to fight dirty. To truly win this fight we will probably have to take up arms and have a revolution. There will have to be something more than just the second Amendment issues to get Californians up in arms wanting to over through the Government. I forget who said it earlier in this thread but it made since and he said something along the lines of, "It's going to be hard for a man or a women to give up there family,401K business and vacations to fight just for our gun rights." There will have to be more and who know's, maybe this water issue we are having here in California might add more fuel to the fire.

Also on another note, everyone here on CalGuns seem to be here for the love of guns and shooting. Regardless how we feel on how this issue should be handled, we need to unite to win this fight. And talking down and ganging up on some FELLOW calgunners should not happen. CalGuns should be like family.

Be safe and happy shooting,
Mike
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  #330  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:23 AM
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I hope you'll reconsider your non-support of the NRA; without their tireless defense in Sacramento, California would have far fewer gun rights. The NRA's presence creates for everyone else (such as SAF, CRPA, CGF, CGN, etc.) the opportunity to take a different approach in securing our gun rights. The GOA, on the other hand, serves no useful function. There is a real and quantifiable upside to your membership in the NRA.


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Originally Posted by bornproud View Post
Holy crap there was a lot of catching up to do on reading this thread! Personally, I am grateful for CalGuns. I know you guys are fighting an uphill battle. I have always said allowing a new gun law in California would be like throwing a rock in a pond; causing a ripple throughout the pond. 1 BAD new gun law in California would ripple throughout America and hurting every body in America. So with saying that we can never give up here.

I am not a NRA member. Sometimes I feel they can be just as corrupt as some of the politicians we have in office. I tend to side on Gun Owners of America point of view; No Compromises. I feel that you start accepting defeat when you compromise. I do feel we are taking 1 step forward and then 3 steps back here. These Anti-gun @$$holes keep putting more and more crap on our plate to fight. I have always said to win a fight you have to fight dirty. To truly win this fight we will probably have to take up arms and have a revolution. There will have to be something more than just the second Amendment issues to get Californians up in arms wanting to over through the Government. I forget who said it earlier in this thread but it made since and he said something along the lines of, "It's going to be hard for a man or a women to give up there family,401K business and vacations to fight just for our gun rights." There will have to be more and who know's, maybe this water issue we are having here in California might add more fuel to the fire.

Also on another note, everyone here on CalGuns seem to be here for the love of guns and shooting. Regardless how we feel on how this issue should be handled, we need to unite to win this fight. And talking down and ganging up on some FELLOW calgunners should not happen. CalGuns should be like family.

Be safe and happy shooting,
Mike
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  #331  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I hope you'll reconsider your non-support of the NRA; without their tireless defense in Sacramento, California would have far fewer gun rights. The NRA's presence creates for everyone else (such as SAF, CRPA, CGF, CGN, etc.) the opportunity to take a different approach in securing our gun rights. The GOA, on the other hand, serves no useful function. There is a real and quantifiable upside to your membership in the NRA.
+1 what wildhawker says. The NRA performs a TON of work here in the state which never makes the headlines. Everything from political lobbying down to providing funds for local shooting range improvements. The NRA is active at all levels. I live in a part of California that has as much gun culture as anywhere else in the country, and have not seen any other national organization besides the NRA provide funding for the local ranges. That to me speaks volumes. The NRA's contribution to the fight for 2A rights is unsurpassed, made possible *entirely* via membership contributions. The fight for 2A rights requires a big stick, and the NRA is *by far* the biggest stick that gun owners have. If you want to contribute to other organizations, that is great. But please contribute to the NRA as well. As a gun owner, the NRA is YOUR advocate...whether you agree 100% with its policies or not.

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  #332  
Old 09-28-2009, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I hope you'll reconsider your non-support of the NRA; without their tireless defense in Sacramento, California would have far fewer gun rights. The NRA's presence creates for everyone else (such as SAF, CRPA, CGF, CGN, etc.) the opportunity to take a different approach in securing our gun rights. The GOA, on the other hand, serves no useful function. There is a real and quantifiable upside to your membership in the NRA.
I do agree that the NRA has done a lot of good, but also believe that it can do much better. A recent bill (H.R. 2640) that the NRA supported really annoyed me with the NRA. Section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 states;

"A record that identifies a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution, consistent with section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, and whose record is not protected from disclosure to the Attorney General under any provision of State or Federal law."

The NRA should not have supported this, even if there was not much change from the previous NICS system that was used. If the NRA uses these compromising tactics to win battles, they should have tried to get that section clarified. This section of H.R. 2640 COULD disarm thousands of veterans that should not be disarmed.

This made the NRA what has been said to be our "big Stick" in this battle for or 2cd Amendment look more like a twig to me. I feel very strongly about this because I am a Veteran and don't want to see my brothers in arms disarmed just so an organization can make themselves look good and try to politic a favor from the anti-gun crowd.

As you can see I am still heated over this. This is why I like the GOA stance of No Compromises. If you keep compromising your going to bury yourself in them.
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  #333  
Old 09-28-2009, 2:39 PM
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Can you articulate one positive policy change that GOA is solely responsible for?

The strategy of "no-compromises" ignores the realities of our system of government and the current state of gun rights.

We are winning, largely due to the efforts of NRA and its affiliate orgs.
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  #334  
Old 09-28-2009, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Can you articulate one positive policy change that GOA is solely responsible for?

The strategy of "no-compromises" ignores the realities of our system of government and the current state of gun rights.

We are winning, largely due to the efforts of NRA and its affiliate orgs.
But, but, but, they didn't compromise.
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  #335  
Old 09-28-2009, 2:49 PM
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But, but, but, they didn't compromise.

And they haven't accomplished much...
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  #336  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:33 PM
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I'm sorry, is this "calguns.net" or "NRAlovefestorgy.net"?

Some of you are like mindless drones........groupthink at it's finest.


Not everyone here is a raving Neo-Con.......got that?
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  #337  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:36 PM
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I'm sorry, is this "calguns.net" or "NRAlovefestorgy.net"?

Some of you are like mindless drones........groupthink at it's finest.
Yet you keep coming by and posting.
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  #338  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
I agree with open carry on a Consititional point but aren't you guys forgetting the federal school zone law that also includes rifles? CCW would protect you from that. Even if we beat the LOC law don't you think these anti gun DAs and politicians would push the Feds to prosecute? Then you would be in even more hurt. That law made past the free states reps even after the first one was struck down by SCOTUS.
School Zone bans are an example of one of the most ridiculous anti-gun legislations out there and should be a focus of our efforts to repeal that legislation from the books. Its nothing more than a way to tact on Felony charges to someone who otherwise may be completely within the law. Don't be fooled by claims that the legislation is in place to allow for stiffer penalties for people who commit crimes with firearms on school property. As well as any sort of rhetoric about keeping kids safe from gun fire.

CCW should not be the only lawful way to have a firearm in a "school zone".
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  #339  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:46 PM
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Yet you keep coming by and posting.
It must be the new cologne.
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  #340  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:48 PM
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This is calguns.net, whose membership overwhelmingly recognizes and supports the hard work of the NRA and seeks to dispel BS from its forums, that future readers may know the truth.

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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
I'm sorry, is this "calguns.net" or "NRAlovefestorgy.net"?

Some of you are like mindless drones........groupthink at it's finest.


Not everyone here is a raving Neo-Con.......got that?
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  #341  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
I'm sorry, is this "calguns.net" or "NRAlovefestorgy.net"?

Some of you are like mindless drones........groupthink at it's finest.


Not everyone here is a raving Neo-Con.......got that?

And yet, you STILL haven't volunteered to do anything.

(BTW - do you KNOW anything about the Neo-Conservative political philosophy? Or are you just tossing about words you think might be insulting?)

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  #342  
Old 09-28-2009, 3:54 PM
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bwahahahahaha!

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And yet, you STILL haven't volunteered to do anything.

(BTW - do you KNOW anything about the Neo-Conservative political philosophy? Or are you just tossing about words you think might be insulting?)

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  #343  
Old 09-28-2009, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
I'm sorry, is this "calguns.net" or "NRAlovefestorgy.net"?
It was taken, so we had to go with calguns.net.

I've met Paul and Ed. They've done more for gun rights THIS MORNING than most of us do our entire lives.

Yeah, I support the NRA.
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  #344  
Old 09-28-2009, 4:06 PM
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It's become clear to me that folks like SSCal and his doppelganger HQ think that nothing's being done and that CGF/NRA/CRPA is ineffectual due to projection.

Being GOA members (or GOA sycophants), they think that since THEY'VE never accomplished anything productive regarding rolling back gun rights, that none of us have either.

Just because you don't know how to climb a mountain doesn't mean it can't be done. Just because you don't know anyone who's climbed a mountain doesn't mean that others haven't done it.
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  #345  
Old 09-28-2009, 4:50 PM
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The odds are fun.

Why are you paying any attention me, at all?
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  #346  
Old 09-28-2009, 4:56 PM
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The odds are fun.

Why are you paying any attention me, at all?
The same reason it is hard to ignore a fly buzzing around the picnic table...

It's just annoying....
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  #347  
Old 09-28-2009, 4:59 PM
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The same reason it is hard to ignore a fly buzzing around the picnic table...

It's just annoying....
Jeez, you act as if I've put the hex on you........
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  #348  
Old 09-28-2009, 5:01 PM
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Wow is all I can muster. Why do public safety personnel view us as the same as gang-bangers, drug dealers, and other organized and disorganized criminals? What have we done to deserve that treatment and dismissal? Those public safety people come from our ranks. My nephew is an sworn officer. I served in our armed forces--enlisted not drafted during a draft period. I know chiefs and assistant chiefs in local law enforcement as well as captains and lieutenants and beat cops and detectives. I am taken aback at this frankly. I need to digest this event.
Where have you been the last 40 years or so??

.

Last edited by GuyW; 09-28-2009 at 5:07 PM..
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Old 09-28-2009, 5:18 PM
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This is why I like the GOA stance of No Compromises.
Oh boy. I doubt the GOA could get me elected Class President.
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Old 09-28-2009, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Can you articulate one positive policy change that GOA is solely responsible for?

The strategy of "no-compromises" ignores the realities of our system of government and the current state of gun rights.

We are winning, largely due to the efforts of NRA and its affiliate orgs.
Of course the NRA is going to have more accomplishments, they have been around longer, are more well known, have more members and more money. I am not trying to say the NRA are a bunch of dirtbags. I know and agree they have done a lot. I'm not trying to defend the GOA either, I just side with their idealism more. H.R. 2640 really set me off and when the NRA backed it, I let my membership expire.

I suppose later on the road I will "cool off" and rejoin the NRA. I still make phone calls, talk to people, and write letters. I don't have to be apart of the NRA to do that. I have donated to CALGUNS and WILL always donate. May not be much but it is what I can afford. Even when I sell goods on the market place I will donate a part of the profit.
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Old 09-28-2009, 5:30 PM
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An excellent site:

http://www.nrawol.net/
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Old 09-28-2009, 5:44 PM
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That the "No Compromise" position sounds good on its face, to many people, is not surprising.

And its OK in an informal sense around the campfire to establish one's purported progun bonafides...

But until our social, political, and legal environment changes in CA, its demonstrably a losing legislative proposition....which is not equivalent to endorsing weak-minded, or not-well-considered "compromises" (or battles chosen).

In our environment, the path to victory (generally, and not discussing legal cases) is not in head-on legislative battles, but in guerrilla political skirmishes....

The good news is - that situation is likely to change in the near future....
.
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Old 09-28-2009, 9:09 PM
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Oh boy. I doubt the GOA could get me elected Class President.
They could spread around nasty rumors about you, though.

So far as I can tell, they just invented the whole "the NRA abandoned California" meme that never ends. Keep repeating a lie often enough and loudly enough, and everyone will believe it.

Idealism? Ideological purity? I fail to see the idealism in bald-faced lying. I fail to see the ideological purity in doing great harm to gun rights by impugning the reputation of people who actually do something useful.

7x57
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I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
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  #354  
Old 09-28-2009, 9:21 PM
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And what about JPFO? What you all have against them?







Their excellent video series - 2A today for the USA: (about 20 mins long)


Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ZF_...e=channel_page


Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7txS...e=channel_page


Part Three:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8nbd...e=channel_page
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
An excellent site:

http://www.nrawol.net/
SickofSoCal-
This is an interesting site that I did not know existed. I will have to look into it for sure. I don't think there is anything wrong with JPFO and they seem to be a good organization.

I am really going to have to study what www.nrawol.net is saying because to tell you the truth, I hope they are wrong. Even if I am disappointed with the NRA. In the home page it states;

"Most NRA members believe the NRA represents their members by urging politicians to move toward freedom. Instead, the NRA is given orders by politicians, which the NRA must then sell to its members. In other words, the NRA no longer represents its members but actively represents politicians."

In the back of my head I felt that this might be happening. But I think it may be a few bad apples in the NRA's leadership that's letting this happen. Now what got me really thinking was the comments made by NRA board member Joaquin Jackson. I have enclosed the link to the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSGySNLyACE

I'm sure I will end up saying more later. I am probably going to get slaughtered for this post.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
An excellent site:

http://www.nrawol.net/

a few more also

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...em.asp?ID=3247
http://www.notgovernmentapproved.com...ojanhorse.html

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ght=Deadred7o7
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
And what about JPFO? What you all have against them?
They have several good educational efforts behind them, however I know of no direct legal change they have been part of or responsible for.
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  #358  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:39 AM
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Wow 7967 Views! Gentle People what impact has this thread achieved by being viewed 8,000 times?
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We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
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They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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  #359  
Old 09-29-2009, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
An excellent site:

http://www.nrawol.net/
The "latest news" is at least two years old. Can't they find any new material?

The executive director of the nrawol.net site also runs these two sites:
http://www.rmgo.org
http://www.nationalgunrights.org/
and is best buddies with http://gunowners.org/
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Last edited by shark92651; 09-29-2009 at 8:45 AM..
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Old 09-29-2009, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bornproud View Post
Now what got me really thinking was the comments made by NRA board member Joaquin Jackson. I have enclosed the link to the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSGySNLyACE

I'm sure I will end up saying more later. I am probably going to get slaughtered for this post.
Yes, Jackson made a "Zumbo-esque" statement back in 2005 and later back-pedelled on it.

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News...s.aspx?ID=9937

Do you really think his rambling Elmer Fudd statement about magazine restrictions for hunting / Assault Weapons represents the position the NRA has on magazine capacity?
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