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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:28 AM
SickofSoCal SickofSoCal is offline
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Default Have "we" ever stopped anything significant?

Just thinking back............here in California, have "we" pro-gunners ever stopped anything significant?

We didn't stop 1989, nor did we stop 1999.

Hell, we couldn't even stop the L.A. County Board of Supervisors when they banned the the Great Western Gun Show in 1999, which was billed as the "world's largest gun show" from the Pomona fairgrounds where the show had been held for the last 30 ******* years.

Stroke of the pen, law of the land.


And now, we have arrived at 2009. (is it just me, or are these 10-year intervals just a little obvious?) They have tried going after the guns for over 40 years, and it.....really.....hasn't......worked. Then, someone hit upon the idea of demonizing ammo. Brilliant.


At any rate, do you all realize that California has had weapons laws on the books for over 20 years that most over states do not have, even to the present day!?!?

What is wrong with this picture? There are millions of gun owners in California! Why cant we stop anything?


And, one last thing. Where is your "line in the sand"? Will you always obey whatever they call "law"? At some point, mass non-compliance has to be our salvation. (including businesses and retailers) If we stood shoulder to shoulder and proclaimed "We will not obey your unjust laws", what then?


Whining, begging, and pleading will only get us so far. Our Founders did not whine, beg, and plead with King George - they were in open rebellion.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:39 AM
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Although the past has been pretty miserable, I guess you haven't noticed the good things that seem to be in progress as you write.

Another few months and your post is (hopefully) going to look like the last such post that anyone would write.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
Whining, begging, and pleading will only get us so far. Our Founders did not whine, beg, and plead with King George - they were in open rebellion.
Are you willing to spent the rest of your life in jail???
How about lose your life???
Our founding fathers were.

You are only a Patriot if you win, If you lose you are a traitor.

This is really the key... How many of us will really put our lives on the line for our rights???

Many say they will , but in reality as long as there is $ in the bank and food on the table most conform to any laws whether they agree or not because it is easy. People do not want to upset thier quality of life.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:48 AM
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Weve delayed some things but rarely stopped them. However, the time for stopping bad laws is over. Now, its time to destroy them instead.

This country is ruled by lawyers, and the only place you can defeat a lawyer is in a courtroom.
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:49 AM
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We have an opportunity this very day. Wake up the sleeping giant and get your family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, shooting buddies- anyone you can find- off the couch and involved in the process. Find a park to clean up, a graffiti-covered wall to paint, someone who wants to go shooting, a way to raise money for CGF, drive membership for Calguns, NRA, CRPA- be creative and press on. We are winning.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:50 AM
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I think part of the question needs to be: What do we hafta to do to keep state lawmakers who don't listen to their constituents from getting (re)elected?
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:55 AM
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Yeah we stop things.

The fear of having an OLL is gone, stopped that.

Allison seems to be much quieter, stopped that noise.

I think Iggy is no longer shooting furniture, we probably didn't stop that, its just fun to think about.

We are currently stopping the slumber of the gun owners in California.

We are stopping the 'Oh well, what ya gonna do' attitude that appears to be imbedded in California's gun community.

Yes, we do things to stop crap.

Vick
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:01 PM
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The biggest problem I have seen is people with influence constantly pushing these "compromise" bills and calling for people to support them. That is why these bans get passed.

Stop listening to fake 2nd amend. advocates and start exercising your rights.

Perfect example is the Open Carry deal. It is LEGAL to open carry your firearms. If you get arrested, you can fight it. We lose the right to open carry because people do not OC, and they constantly ***** about CCW.

To me, people who CC are criminals. Why are you hiding the fact you are armed? What are you hiding and what are you intentions? If you are worried about what people would think, you need to not own firearms.

Why do you think people shake hands, or a common greeting around the world to show friend is to wave your hands in the air above your head. To show you are not armed.

Stop being P*&$@#s!
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:07 PM
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Ecko, pull your head out- there's more oxygen out here.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:11 PM
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Oh that post is going to get this thread going now... IBTL? (EckoLakers, not wildhawkers. Wildhawker beat me to it)

Anyhow, I believe OC should be legal and have no problem with others practicing it, however I agree with Calgun Foundation's opinion that right now is NOT the right time. It is ok to execise your right, but if you are doing it to win a fight, make sure it is the fight that gets the best results. Right now OC will not get us the best results.

I just wish the OC proponents would realize that we need to work together and not take any actions that would jeopordize our progress.
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Ecko, pull your head out- there's more oxygen out here.
You phrased that far better than I would have done.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:16 PM
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We're not going to win anything at the way we're progressing here. We don't know how to accept help where we can get it.

It's a simple fact that we live in a liberal dominated state. It's also a simple fact that many liberals own guns are are pro-2A (I myself included). The problem is that many pro-2As, A LOT of people here included, choose to berate liberals and call them idiots (amongst other things). If you choose to make enemies of people that could help your cause, then by all means do it, but don't sit there and wonder why so many people are against you. *rant off*.

In other words, what I'm saying is, maybe it's time to change the approach?
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:23 PM
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snobord99,

The outreach programs that Calguns is starting is designed to do just that, but the liberal vs conservative battle is not going to disappear. Conservative Pro-2A'ers get upset at the Liberal Pro-2A'ers because the liberals Pro-2A'er unfortunately frequently vote for liberals who are Anti-2a.

Perhaps the liberal Pro-2A'ers can help gain some level of trust with the conservatives by working to elect liberal Pro-2a'ers?

We need to not let our disagreements on other issues stand in the way of our love for and support of our 2nd Amendment rights.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:24 PM
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Snobord, such was the message at the recent Town Hall meetings and is a focus of the newly-expanded outreach program here at CGN. Your sentiments are not lost on us.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:24 PM
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................
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It makes it bigger and longer.

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  #16  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:24 PM
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Well said, Sean!
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
Nope....we are done here in CA. It is just a matter of time. AB962 is just one more step in the process to disarm us.

Someone mentioned being allowed to have OLL/neutered AR's....what a "great" thing....when all the other states can have AR's....100+ round mags,can's,even class 3 weapons,etc.

CA is a lost cause...the NRA has long ago written us off and are just trying to hold on to their "power" they have left.

No one is going to stand up in a physical way...ie break CA law. Like Rage Against the Machine says...and now ya do what they told ya!

Peace,Stan
Wow, AB962 and SB585 isn't law yet (Governor can veto it) and we have Sykes and Pena and you're ready to throw in the towel?
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  #18  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw24 View Post
Are you willing to spent the rest of your life in jail???
How about lose your life???
Our founding fathers were.

You are only a Patriot if you win, If you lose you are a traitor.

This is really the key... How many of us will really put our lives on the line for our rights???

Many say they will , but in reality as long as there is $ in the bank and food on the table most conform to any laws whether they agree or not because it is easy. People do not want to upset thier quality of life.
Many are what I call "fair weather Patriots". It's all fine and dandy, until personal sacrifice is required. When the going gets tough, the tough get going!

That being said, I want to make it absolutely clear that I do not advocate violence and any way, shape, or form. 9 times out of 10, revolts are put down very quickly and ruthlessly.

When it comes right down to it, our solution is in massive, peaceful non-compliance - doing this demonstrates who the violent ones are. Millions of people doing NOTHING is one of the most powerful political tools of the masses.

Also, we have to have patience. Do you realize that it took Gandhi 29 YEARS (1916-1945) to expel the British from India?






"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

~ Gandhi
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:32 PM
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[quote=SickofSoCal;3099401]
When it comes right down to it, our solution is in massive, peaceful non-compliance - doing this demonstrates who the violent ones are. Millions of people doing NOTHING is one

We have enough work keeping good folk out of jail due to bogus charges, incompetent DAs and stupid cops.

You think we're gonna bail your arse out for *intentional* violations?

I've had a lotta crying phone calls from so-called "patriots" that didn't reg their AWs in 2000 and then got busted w/felonies.

Time is on our side now and lots of laws will be coming down. You're probably not too clued in and just stopped in here for a place to scream & rave.

So-called massive noncompliance just leads to a sequence of people going to jail whenever someone is encountered with a no-no gun.

I prefer "aggressive compliance" which means understanding the law and pushing it sanely as far as it goes - because that leads to very useful results. CA OLL stuff will factor into post-Heller AW challenges

And when we do things right we only have to do them once.

Let me guess: you're a GOA or GOC member?
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
Also, we have to have patience. Do you realize that it took Gandhi 29 YEARS (1916-1945) to expel the British from India?

And how long did it take to expel the British from the Colonies with use of arms and force?


I think CA best hope is getting federal backing via 2A incorporation. CA won't do it willingly.....but if forced to do so after sometime maybe they will see it ain't the "blood in the streets" they thought it would be.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:35 PM
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I believe this summer, I dont know if it was San Diego or somewhere down there, Didn't we get a city council to withdraw its planned ammo restrictions?
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We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCasey View Post
snobord99,

The outreach programs that Calguns is starting is designed to do just that, but the liberal vs conservative battle is not going to disappear. Conservative Pro-2A'ers get upset at the Liberal Pro-2A'ers because the liberals Pro-2A'er unfortunately frequently vote for liberals who are Anti-2a.

Perhaps the liberal Pro-2A'ers can help gain some level of trust with the conservatives by working to elect liberal Pro-2a'ers?

We need to not let our disagreements on other issues stand in the way of our love for and support of our 2nd Amendment rights.
I agree that's a problem. I'm guilty of that myself. Problem is, I don't vote only on 2A issues. Perhaps we need a liberal friendly candidate who's also pro-2A. That'll get my vote.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I think part of the question needs to be: What do we hafta to do to keep state lawmakers who don't listen to their constituents from getting (re)elected?
The problem is that a lot of the lawmakers in this state are listening to their constituents. Remember . . . this is California.

R
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eckolaker View Post
The biggest problem I have seen is people with influence constantly pushing these "compromise" bills and calling for people to support them. That is why these bans get passed.

Stop listening to fake 2nd amend. advocates and start exercising your rights.

Perfect example is the Open Carry deal. It is LEGAL to open carry your firearms. If you get arrested, you can fight it. We lose the right to open carry because people do not OC, and they constantly ***** about CCW.

To me, people who CC are criminals. Why are you hiding the fact you are armed? What are you hiding and what are you intentions? If you are worried about what people would think, you need to not own firearms.

Why do you think people shake hands, or a common greeting around the world to show friend is to wave your hands in the air above your head. To show you are not armed.

Stop being P*&$@#s!
Not being pu**ies by CCW. We are being smart. Do you carry cash and credit cards in your wallet, tucked away nicely until the need to use them arises, or do you wear them exposed in a holster for the world to see?
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Last edited by jaymz; 09-22-2009 at 12:41 PM.. Reason: Word filter missed one!
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  #25  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:41 PM
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Bigbamboo, you know all that because you spend so much time working closely with the NRA and the Right People have told you to get out while you can?....

CA is not lost. We are *winning*.

Stop getting your civics education from a rock album and get involved in the process. You might actually *learn* something.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Bigbamboo, you know all that because you spend so much time working closely with the NRA and the Right People have told you to get out while you can?....

CA is not lost. We are *winning*.

Stop getting your civics education from a rock album and get involved in the process. You might actually *learn* something.
I'm gonna agree with this. The court case that'll be decided soon is proof that at least people are opening their eyes.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:50 PM
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For a long time all of the gun rights organizations were happy with the status quo and only attempted to do anything when they were opposed to some action that the anti-gunners took. My biggest criticisms of almost all of the gun rights organization is that they didn't take any actions themselves but they only reacted to actions taken against us.

That has changed! In the last year or so the CGF and SAF have taken the offensive and are challenging the gun laws in court, where legal principles not popularity determine the outcome. To me, this is the winning strategy!

Attack and make your enemies react to your actions. If you can set the battlefield and the timing of the battle then you go into it with an advantage.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:54 PM
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We've stopped previous versions of AB 962. We've stopped previous versions of SB 585. We stopped Prop H in San Francisco. We forced SF to rescind it's ban on guns in public housing. We're forcing the Sac Cty Sherriff to wonder if he'll still be Sherriff in a couple years.

That's just what I have off the top of my head.

For more information of the bad bills we've stopped, see the start page for Calguns.net. Look at the bottom. There's a whole host of bills we've stopped.

Stop whining.

Get up.

Do something.

You can't win unless you show up.

Sending in your $35, wearing your hat and putting a sticker on your car isn't enough.
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw24 View Post
Are you willing to spent the rest of your life in jail???
How about lose your life???
Our founding fathers were.

You are only a Patriot if you win, If you lose you are a traitor.

This is really the key... How many of us will really put our lives on the line for our rights???

Many say they will , but in reality as long as there is $ in the bank and food on the table most conform to any laws whether they agree or not because it is easy. People do not want to upset thier quality of life.
Or nobody wants to be first, for fear they will be the only one and losing it all for nothing. You're a martyr if enough people understand what you're doing and why and follow up with what you're trying to accomplish if you get killed on the first try--if they don't, you're a lunatic loose cannon that's put down like a rabid dog, thrown in a hole, and forgotten.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

Last edited by yellowfin; 09-22-2009 at 1:00 PM..
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
What is wrong with this picture? There are millions of gun owners in California! Why cant we stop anything? .
Because until the 90's or so 0% tried to do anything, and today maybe 10% at best do.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:02 PM
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http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.s...ings&year=2009

http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.s...ales&year=2009

the second one is what I was referring to earlier, + more
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:05 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
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I understand the OPs frustrations though because sometimes it seems like these new bills can get passed 10 times quicker then they can be struck down.

I heard Judge A. Napalitano on Fox the other day relating how he was talking to a Senator (dont remember which one) and asking him if the Congress cares if proposed laws are constitutional to not and the response he got was "We pretty much do whatever we want and let the courts worry if its constitutional or not."

But how long does it take to fight something thru the courts? A bill can be written and passed sometimes in just a matter of days and it can take years to fight it out in court. And you know even with 2A incorporation CA will be doing that all the time. They will just keep passing bills that hafta be fought in court rather then just respecting the constitution and the rights it guarantees.
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:10 PM
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Pre Heller I think most efforts were nearly impossible. Post Heller and soon to be incorporation, I think many if not all of the unconstitutional gun laws in California will go away. It may take time, but it will happen.
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
No. I do not belong to ANY group or organization.
And you wanted to know why CA is the way it is? There you go. The reason CA is messed up is because of people like you, who refuse to

1) get involved
2) be effective
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:11 PM
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I am a member of the Calguns Organization
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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  #36  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
Stop whining.

Get up.

Do something.

You can't win unless you show up.

Sending in your $35, wearing your hat and putting a sticker on your car isn't enough.
Say it brother!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I understand the OPs frustrations though because sometimes it seems like these new bills can get passed 10 times quicker then they can be struck down.

I heard Judge A. Napalitano on Fox the other day relating how he was talking to a Senator (dont remember which one) and asking him if the Congress cares if proposed laws are constitutional to not and the response he got was "We pretty much do whatever we want and let the courts worry if its constitutional or not."

But how long does it take to fight something thru the courts? A bill can be written and passed sometimes in just a matter of days and it can take years to fight it out in court. And you know even with 2A incorporation CA will be doing that all the time. They will just keep passing bills that hafta be fought in court rather then just respecting the constitution and the rights it guarantees.
Each of us has a number of terribly important responsibilities: Faith, Family, Friends, Food, Fight; shirking any one of them can be a terminal condition.

We should take our duties as interested citizens just as seriously as the politicians take their job of creating laws and regulations.
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  #37  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I understand the OPs frustrations though because sometimes it seems like these new bills can get passed 10 times quicker then they can be struck down.

I heard Judge A. Napalitano on Fox the other day relating how he was talking to a Senator (dont remember which one) and asking him if the Congress cares if proposed laws are constitutional to not and the response he got was "We pretty much do whatever we want and let the courts worry if its constitutional or not."

But how long does it take to fight something thru the courts? A bill can be written and passed sometimes in just a matter of days and it can take years to fight it out in court. And you know even with 2A incorporation CA will be doing that all the time. They will just keep passing bills that hafta be fought in court rather then just respecting the constitution and the rights it guarantees.
Also it is frustrating that they do so with impunity. If you and I do something that violates a law we get punished for it, whereas absolutely nothing happens to them when they blatantly violate their own legal parameters and they can pretty much make it all up as they go along. Running up millions in legal costs to us doesn't cost a dime to them. They suffer no consequences for their actions which they know beyond a shadow of a doubt to be wrong. Government is supposed to never be above the law yet they are and with little to no fear whatsoever. I understand freedom isn't free on our end but they sure get away scot free trashing it.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin View Post
Also it is frustrating that they do so with impunity. If you and I do something that violates a law we get punished for it, whereas absolutely nothing happens to them when they blatantly violate their own legal parameters and they can pretty much make it all up as they go along. Running up millions in legal costs to us doesn't cost a dime to them. They suffer no consequences for their actions which they know beyond a shadow of a doubt to be wrong. Government is supposed to never be above the law yet they are and with little to no fear whatsoever. I understand freedom isn't free on our end but they sure get away scot free trashing it.

Yep.....that's pretty much what I'm talkin' about.
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Quote:
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
And you wanted to know why CA is the way it is? There you go. The reason CA is messed up is because of people like you, who refuse to

1) get involved
2) be effective
So, let me get this straight. One must be a dues-paying member of a group to:


1. Write a paper letter

2. Write an email

3. Send a fax

4. Make a phone call

5. Talk with friends, family, or co-workers

6. Vote the "right way"

7. Attend a rally



How dare you.

Plus, I'll have you know, I used to be in the NRA for a number of years.
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Last edited by SickofSoCal; 09-22-2009 at 1:24 PM..
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2009, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
I am a little disappointed that you were so quick to insult someone who you don't even know!




No. I do not belong to ANY group or organization.
Not even the NRA? What are you complaining about then??? Sounds like you're the one that's not done anything LOL

And what about CalGuns? I see you have an account here? You don't consider yourself part of this group either??? Why are you here???
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