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To those of you that believe in hell
The concept Hell is one of the reasons I've backed away from my Presbyterian roots, and the Pope's recent comments on the topic have me thinking. For those of you who believe in hell, do you believe that people who's souls end up in hell are:
A) big time dirt bags in real life, i.e., serial killers child abusers, etc., or B) those that deny Jesus Christ, or C) both? If you believe the pedos, Dahmer, Hitlers and Clinton's will burn forever, didn't Jesus die for ALL of our sins? Or was there a list he submitted of exceptions? Do you believe that Jesus' sacrifice was only worth absolving white collar criminals, petty criminals and average Jerks? Is that all God's only born son was worth? If you believe that anyone who rejects God goes to hell, do you believe that all the mass killers who repented, all the child murderers who had death row conversions, and all the dead human traffickers who God fearingly wore gold crosses around their necks are sitting in heaven, yet the Dalai Lama, Gandhi and every Rabbi will rot In hades for eternity? And as a bonus question; for those of you who feel your beloved Aunt Percy is 'smiling down from heaven' and that Osama Bin Laden is 'rotting in hell', then you must believe that God has somehow already passed judgment on all dead people and is doing so on a rolling basis? For you, do you still believe in the biblical judgement day? Do you believe there will be a second coming? What would be the purpose, in your mind, if God's already sorting and filing all the souls as they come in? Seems kind of redundant and unnecessary to me. Last edited by The Duke; 03-31-2018 at 3:21 PM.. Reason: Error |
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Since you have church roots, you have probably heard this verse quoted, “The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.” Romans 6:23
Salvation is a free gift. As for who is saved and who isn’t, no person can tell you who is in heaven or hades. But the scriptures tell the believer that when we die, we are immediately with Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:8, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) But who is a worse sinner, you, me or the evil people you mentioned? The answer is that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We are equally condemned. “But God demonstrates His own love to us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. “ Romans 5:8 That is the gift I mentioned. Christ paid the penalty for our sins. We can accept that gift and have the hope of eternal life that comes with it. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” John 3:16-17 Happy Resurrection Day
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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The lake of fire. From the bible represents hell. Crime and punishment. Achievement and reward. Heaven and hell. Life is all about decision.
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God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life. John 3:16 NRA,,, Lifer United Air Epic Fail Video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg |
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Per your phrasing, only those who deny Christ are in hell. I'd prefer to say that only those who acknowledge that they are sinners worthy of / destined to hell that accept Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation (Romans 6:23)are going to heaven. Faith alone, no works. You're not good enough / cannot be good enough. Salvation is a work all of God's (Ephesians 2:8-10). Ask Abraham (Romans 4:1-5). Since ALL have sinned, ALL are destined to hell (Romans 3:23). The rest of that verse says ALL have fallen short of the glory of God. God defines sin as falling short of His perfect standard, His righteousness. So, ALL have fallen short of His perfect standard. That's why it doesn't matter how good you are (or bad) in this life, you still fall short. The Dalai, Gandhi, every Rabbi, and even Mother Teresa fall/fell short and need/needed to accept Christ's free gift of salvation. Whether or not they did is between them and the Lord Jesus Christ. On the other end of falling short -the super bad - Jesus Christ's free gift is also available - no matter how bad your life has been. Ask King David - murderer, adulterer, terrible Father, etc. Ask Paul - murderer and persecutor of Christians. Ask the thief on the cross. Ask anyone who's ever been saved just how bad our lives were and how undeserving of heaven we were and still are. But, a free gift doesn't depend on how good or bad I am. Today is a wonderful day to talk with the Lord. Admit you're a sinner and deserve hell. IOW, admit you fall short/have fallen short of His perfectness. And, accept His FREE gift of heaven, of eternal life. Tell Him you want His death to count as the death in hell that you deserve. Tell you want His life to be your life - eternally. Tell Him you don't understand it all, don't understand what has happened to all the good and bad people of the world, but want to start understanding through salvation in Him. If you have any questions, need help, anything, just PM me! I'd love to see you all in the choir with me in heaven! God bless and Happy Resurrection Sunday! He is RISEN! (no time to review / edit - time for church!)
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Firstly, the Greek word for the device used in crucifixion is STAFRON. Staff could be translated as a stake but the cross was indeed a vertical stake with a horizontal cross member. The Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus was crucified on a stake which is in error. Quote:
Happy Resurrection Day
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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As to Heaven and the thief on the cross. There are different views as you pointed out in your change of punctuation. Which by the way the original didn’t use. My opinion is we are immediately with Christ. Not in Heaven as most people think of Heaven with streets of gold and gates of pearl. That Heaven comes later on when Revelation speaks of a new Heaven and Earth. People of faith may disagree. The order of these things are not essential to the Faith.
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“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.” - James Burgh |
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So, Christ would not be saying, Verily I say unto you, today thou shalt be in Paradise. Since they wouldn't die that day. He would more than likely say, Verily I say unto you today, thou shalt be in Paradise. |
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best troll thread in calguns history http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=406739 burn the circus down cuz the world is full of clowns |
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"I swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell." - And When I Die
I was taught that Jesus saved us from Original sin (the one that got us cast from the garden of eden), and after that you are on your own. i'm not religious, or perhaps i simply have not received the gift of faith, but i am holding out hope for hell, because it irks me to think that bad people will not suffer. |
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This is my perspective. There is God, who created everything in heaven and on earth, including each and every person. He also created the life we live and He created a plan of salvation. It's His rules that we must accept or reject. We are not in a position to bargain with Him. For reasons only known to Him, His plan of salvation requires that we accept Jesus' sacrifice as an atonement of our sins. It's common for mankind to compare their lives to how others have lived their lives, and to declare ourselves as good persons worthy of being saved. The problem with that way of thinking is it is inconsistent with God's plan that he expressed in His Bible.
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You make yourself right with God and you go to Heaven. It is that simple. Men have made it needlessly complicated for political and financial purposes. One still has to live a good life going forward, but it is not a condition on accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. You have to come to it yourself; it cannot be bought like some Catholics hundreds of years ago believed.
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Biden's Laptop Matters Read the Kelly Turnbull novels to see where California is and will go: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kelly+tur..._2_15_ts-doa-p Last edited by tomrkba; 04-01-2018 at 2:09 PM.. |
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Our pastor once said when you get to heaven you may be very surprised at who's there with you, and even more surprised at who's not...
One sin separates you from God whether serial killer, pedophile, or liar. That is why Jesus said "no one gets to the father except through Me". Jesus already paid for every single sin, but you have to accept that gift. Without accepting before you die, God will have to hold YOU accountable for your sin which means hell. |
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So, you are a crap head all your life, steal, lie, cheat, rape, murder and at the end on the death bed waiting for the needle, you say the prayer, you die a Christian and go to heaven. All about choices.
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I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
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Yep, as said above we are all crap heads. We judge crapheadedness between ourselves but to God all crapheadedness is the same. One instance of crapheadedness will separate us unless we ask for his Mercy.
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I've read that the word translated from Hebrew into our 'hell' simply means being dead? I've also been told how the medieval church used a fear of 'hell' to compel behavior from from the peoples?
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I have a hard time thinking of the Dalai Lama or Gandolfini, or even a catholic deserving eternal he'll fire. |
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But I somehow feel a dastardly human who lived a life of evil with a master plan of late live conversion would have an extremely difficult time of genuinely pulling it off... When one can see clearly into his heart. |
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I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
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You can Google it, Strong's g1067. Strong's is an index of every word found in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. |
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As to the second question only those who put their faith in Christ. Even though as you pointed out the Judgment Day has not yet occurred God knows who has trusted Christ and who has not already. As to the lost? I'm not sure, but if you believe the Jesus' parable about The Rich Man and Lazarus is not just a story but true, then the non-believer goes right to hell..
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“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.” - James Burgh |
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Interestingly, most of the paintings I remember from my youth and school Bible classes showed the theives tied to the crosses with ropes, while Christ was nailed. I'm not sure where that idea came from. Last edited by Sailormilan2; 04-02-2018 at 11:43 AM.. |
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Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to 'The Way', whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem (Acts 9:1-2). On the road to Damascus, Christ appeared to him personally. Saul, now called the Apostle Paul, never forgot the depths of his sin and experienced the heights of God’s grace in his life. "I tell you, her sins--and they are many--have been forgiven, so she has shown me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only little love." Luke 7:47 NLT There is no limits to the love, grace and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Corinthians 15:55-57
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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What is hell on earth? We all know the answer to that since we created it. For those of us who now live in California we allowed the devil to take over and we are paying the price for not standing up and being counted. Ronald Reagan might have had a point about escaping and no place to go.
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[QUOTE=Kokopelli;21470357]
Firstly, the Greek word for the device used in crucifixion is STAFRON. Staff could be translated as a stake but the cross was indeed a vertical stake with a horizontal cross member. The Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus was crucified on a stake which is in error. Please indicate your reference for this statement. The Greek word stafron does not appear in Vines Expository Dictionary or Strong's... |
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From http://biblehub.com/greek/4716.htm Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet https://www.rapidtables.com/math/sym..._alphabet.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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I do not believe Hell is eternal torture.
There is no strong evidence to support eternal punishment and no real reason for it to exist.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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The lake of fire exist because it is a place of punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. That reference escapes me at the moment.
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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Hebrews 10:26-27—"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." Psalms 9:5—"You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever." Matthew 10:28—"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." There are a ton of scripture indicating that eternal life must be obtained via a gift. This suggest eternal life is something not yet had. If we all have eternal life the only difference is where we spend it there are some scriptural inconsistencies. In other words there are scriptures on both sides of the arguments. I tend to think most in favor of eternal punishment tend to be apocalyptic in nature ans as such tend to be descriptive rather than prescriptive.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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I try not to think about it too much. Life is short, I have eternity to figure out heaven or hell.
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https://thedeplorablepatriot.com/ "A Holocaust survivor dies of old age, when he gets to heaven he tells God a Holocaust joke. God says, That isn't funny. The Old man tells God, well, I guess you had to be there." |
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Rev.20:10 & 14 seems to say that only certain parties are subjected to the eternal punishment. While the Lake of Fire may burn eternally, it does not say that all sinners are punished eternally.
So, does one burn eternally, or does one get burned up eternally? Eternal life is a gift of God. Does that mean that He must grant some form of eternal existence in order for someone to be punished eternally? God tells us twice in Ezekiel that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. I can't see a loving, merciful God physically punishing someone for all eternity. I can see Him causing someone to cease to exist for all eternity. Last edited by Sailormilan2; 04-08-2018 at 5:48 PM.. |
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So does God send the super baddies to hell or anyone that denies Christ? I think the bible is clear that all those who are not saved by God's grace, through the life and perfect sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ, will face eternal damnation in hell. This includes people we know and love that do lots of wonderful things with their lives on earth. Without salvation through Christ, no one enters heaven, no matter how "good" they were. There's nothing we can do to reach heaven by our own works. So how does one gain salvation? There are two major groups on thought within the protestant church today. 1. Christ died for everyone of all time, and salvation is a gift we just need to reach out and accept. Some will choose to accept, some will not. Those that do are saved, those that don't are not. An underlying concept sometimes found in this belief is that one can lose their salvation, which I do not believe is possible. Once God has written a name in the book of life, how is man to change that ledger? 2. Humans are born in total depravity (completely corrupted by sin) and their nature is to be in contention with God and ONLY intervention by God, through the Holy Spirit, will a person's nature be forever changed so that they are open to the reality of who Christ is and his salvation. This train of thought is associated with "reformed" or "covenant" theology and basically means that Christ died for ONLY the people past, present, and future that would be saved by his grace. It means that once the Holy Spirit changes your nature (through no work of your own) you will find God's grace irresistible and therefor find that you have gained salvation through no work of your own. Your salvation was completely accomplished by God and can never be taken away from you. Your life from there forward should be lived in obedience to God's word out of gratitude for the grace that He has given you, not out of fear of losing salvation. We will make mistake along the way and maybe even struggle our whole lives with sin, but that won't weigh on our justification, only our sanctification. This is what I believe. Most churches believe some variation of #1 and fewer #2. I think both ideas are held firmly within churches full of saved Christians. Though ultimately I think there is one right answer to all issues in the bible. So does God save murderers, rapists, etc? I can only assume God has, but we cannot truly know the hearts of man nor their status as being "saved" or not. But we do know that the bible makes the claim that no sin is insurmountable by Christ's sacrifice, except to grieve the Holy Spirit, which is to not be saved at all. The way I think of it is this... any imperfection, including original sin, condemns mankind to hell. As such, we are born running from God. Out of God's love for mankind, he chooses to turn some of us around, so that we run towards him. We are completely undeserving of it, but by his mercy and grace, we are saved. I also believe that Christ's sacrifice cannot be a failure in any way, since it was the one and only "perfect" sacrifice. Not good enough, but perfect. If we claim he suffered and died for all, is it not a failure of Christ's when someone is not saved? Why did he sacrifice beyond what is necessary, if God knows in advance many will not be saved? If one digs into it, I think the bible is clear that salvation is not for all, but only for a predestined group of people, that WILL be saved, regardless of the severity of their sins. Quote:
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This business is finished with the second coming of Christ and all the other events outlined in Revelation. Judgement day, as you mean, I believe is the day when those left on earth will be judged, without death necessarily and once and for all mankind is separated into heaven and hell. From here God will create the new heavens, new earth, and those of us in heaven will receive our glorified bodies and our final home in the new heaven and new earth for eternity. I apologize for absolutely zero references, sadly this is an area of weakness for me. I can retain stories and ideas, but I struggle to invest the time needed to retain the information to that level of detail. I hope this new curiosity drives you closer to Jesus Christ our Lord! |
#40
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This post is already too long to read through it all or post anything worthwhile.
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It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs -ΙΧΘΥΣ <>< |
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