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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #761  
Old 12-13-2010, 3:54 PM
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we at norse armory are currently working on getting on our sot and will be building S12 AOWs for california. We have already designed and started cutting flats for them
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  #762  
Old 12-13-2010, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by redneckshootist View Post
we at norse armory are currently working on getting on our sot and will be building S12 AOWs for california. We have already designed and started cutting flats for them


Justin
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  #763  
Old 12-14-2010, 4:28 PM
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Now that we are gettting public-friendly NFA dealers in CA, I figure I need to make a list of them. It was pretty easy when there was just one, now that there are at least three of them, a list is best. I would have liked to put this in my OP, but there isn't any room left in it. I should have did a placeholder post right after it, my bad. If anybody is aware of any that I didn't list, let me know and I'll update the list.


public-friendly NFA dealers/manufacturers.

SoCal

O.C. Armory
01/03 FFL & OLL Friendly
23012 Del Lago Dr
Suite B
Laguna Hills, Ca. 92653
(949) 768-5189

Ten Percent firearms
01FFL/03SOT
1277 Kern St.
Taft, CA 93268
Phone: 661 765-6899
Fax: 661 765-9355





NorCal

Tracy Rifle and Pistol
01FFL/03SOT
2726 Naglee Rd
Tracy Ca 95304
209 833-9100

Valkyrie Arms 07 FFL, 02 SOT
1751 Houret ct.
Milpitas CA, 95035
ph (408)957-0600
Fax.(408)957-0666

Norse Armory
07FFL (future SOT)
Woodland, CA
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Last edited by ke6guj; 04-12-2011 at 10:55 AM..
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  #764  
Old 12-14-2010, 4:56 PM
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If the chameleon letter is ATF's new policy why cant you go from pistol > rifle > pistol and still be a legal pistol? Or, if the initial AOW status is key, then can I go from VFG'ed pistol > rifle > VFG'ed pistol and still be an AOW?
I bet you could argue and win on VFG-pistol -> rifle -> VFG pistol remaining an AOW. It seems like ATF is hinging on the AOW being Title II vs a pistol being Title I.
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  #765  
Old 12-18-2010, 9:56 AM
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I just want one of these! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=206431110

An 8" barreled S12 would be fun and it sounds like we have a couple of companies working to give us the option!
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  #766  
Old 12-18-2010, 10:21 AM
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Jason, can you give an estimate of cost? $1,800 like the GB link is out of reach for me
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  #767  
Old 12-18-2010, 11:01 AM
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I will have a talk with Direct Action Solutions in San Diego next time I am up there. They have a front-end retail shop, but also manufacture suppressors.

I would assume they have an 07FFL/02SOT, don't think they are a 10FFL. I would assume that 07 would allow them to deal also in Title 1 firearms for the retail side, and they would not also need an 01.
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  #768  
Old 12-18-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by lorax3 View Post
I will have a talk with Direct Action Solutions in San Diego next time I am up there. They have a front-end retail shop, but also manufacture suppressors.

I would assume they have an 07FFL/02SOT, don't think they are a 10FFL. I would assume that 07 would allow them to deal also in Title 1 firearms for the retail side, and they would not also need an 01.
ATF's FFL list just shows an 07FFL, no 10 or 01. As you mentioned, an 07 would be enough to deal in Title 1. Unfortunately there is no way to determine SOT status through ATF, you have to find out through other means.
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  #769  
Old 12-20-2010, 7:36 AM
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Just to verify, it would appear after reading through this that a privately held California corporation can acquire an AOW as well without CLEO sign off, correct? This would save me a bit of money since I already have one formed. Myself and my wife are the only officers/employees.

Additionally, an AOW Saiga 12 as mentioned above is not a pistol, a shotgun or centerfire rifle Federally. A mag lock would still be required for compliance since Cali still considers it a shotgun with detachable mag, correct? A bit confused on this. Thanks.
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Last edited by EBR Works; 12-20-2010 at 8:01 AM..
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  #770  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:06 PM
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correct, as a legal entity, a corp can acquire an NFA firearm without having to get CLEO sign-off or need to supply fingerprints or photos. Just like a trust. Actually, the "corp exemption" has been used for a long time, with it just recently being figured out in the last ~5 years that trusts were exempt as well.

You just dont' hear about people using the corp exemption as much in CA since the yearly corp tax is something like $800 per year, and you have to keep the corp valid as long as you own the NFA item. Whereas, with a trust, it is basically a one-time fee to have the trust drawn up.
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  #771  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:08 PM
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Excellent! How about the S12 AOW question? Any thoughts? Thanks.
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  #772  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
Excellent! How about the S12 AOW question? Any thoughts? Thanks.
CA would consider it to be a pistol, so you have to comply with the SBS regs (by having it papered as an AOW), the shotgun AW regs (fixed mag), pistol AW regs (fixed mag <11-rounds), and the handgun roster applies as well (so it must be DROSed as a single-shot pistol).
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  #773  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:15 PM
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Interesting. I'll have to ponder this further...
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  #774  
Old 12-23-2010, 2:29 PM
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Just in at O.C. Armory! These are being produced by Cadiz gunwerkes. They are available for custom orders immediately.



Mike
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  #775  
Old 12-23-2010, 2:35 PM
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positively evil
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  #776  
Old 12-23-2010, 2:44 PM
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Mine is incoming.
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  #777  
Old 12-23-2010, 3:56 PM
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Price?
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  #778  
Old 12-23-2010, 4:00 PM
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Price?
for the Saiga12 AOW posted above?

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Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
Should be between $1800 and up. The way you see it would be around $2000. I will have a firm pricing structure after the new year. It is priced as a piece meal style. There will be the base AOW plus any extras you want.
Mike
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  #779  
Old 12-23-2010, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
Just in at O.C. Armory! These are being produced by Cadiz gunwerkes. They are available for custom orders immediately.
Mike
Oh my. That is beyond cool.
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  #780  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:20 AM
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Sooooo cool I wish I had the funds to get this so bad
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  #781  
Old 12-24-2010, 9:06 AM
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Now That's what I'm talking about!! Slap a 10 round drum on that baby n'......... fugitaboutit
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  #782  
Old 12-26-2010, 1:28 AM
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I never knew how badly I needed one of these. :>

Last edited by winnre; 12-26-2010 at 1:43 AM..
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  #783  
Old 01-01-2011, 9:10 AM
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K. Got a C&R SBS question. So we know that recently the ATF has decided that by doing a Form 1 on a C&R shotgun it removes its C&R status. How does this decision affect SBS built on C&R receivers built prior to the memo? Are they still C&Rs?
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  #784  
Old 01-02-2011, 2:25 AM
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As I understand it you cannot make any changes to a C&R rifle or it loses that status.
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  #785  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
As I understand it you cannot make any changes to a C&R rifle or it loses that status.
You can make small minor changes that don't modify the appearance. For instance, if you get a M1 Garand with a totally beat-to-crap stock, you can replace the stock with a brand new one, as long as it's the original style, and it would still be considered a C&R.
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  #786  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:33 PM
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The problem that you face with filing a form 1 is it is a request to manufacture a firearm. So even if you don't change the appearance you are manufacturing a firearm.
Mike
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  #787  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:36 PM
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looks like someone in MI just got a C&R SBS Form 1 approval, so they are still allowing them "sometimes",
Quote:
My brother in law got his Form 1 stamp back last week for a C&R SBS build in Michigan. Examiner was Flannigan.
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  #788  
Old 01-02-2011, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
looks like someone in MI just got a C&R SBS Form 1 approval, so they are still allowing them "sometimes",
I still want to try the trick to get an C&R LEO MG. I bet there just has to be the right "some times" to make it work!

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  #789  
Old 01-02-2011, 5:42 PM
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I still want to try the trick to get an C&R LEO MG. I bet there just has to be the right "some times" to make it work!

Justin
PM sent, read it over and let me know what you think.
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  #790  
Old 01-02-2011, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
looks like someone in MI just got a C&R SBS Form 1 approval, so they are still allowing them "sometimes",
I don't see why they wouldn't approve an 870 on a Form 1 since they have easily replaceable barrels. I can see denying a Form 1 for a SxS... But then again, when has the ATF ever made sense?

That MI SBS, anyone know what model it was?
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  #791  
Old 01-03-2011, 8:07 PM
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I want a SBR and SBS what most I do can you pm me a list of things that need to be done
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  #792  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:05 PM
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The problem that you face with filing a form 1 is it is a request to manufacture a firearm. So even if you don't change the appearance you are manufacturing a firearm.
Mike
This should be legally fought. I think it's a convenient interpretation by the ATF.
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  #793  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
looks like someone in MI just got a C&R SBS Form 1 approval, so they are still allowing them "sometimes",
But nothing on the Form 1 states it's a C&R correct? So basically, even though ATF approved it, it could still lose it's C&R status when he Form 1'd it. Sorry, I don't know the details so just making assumptions.
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  #794  
Old 01-06-2011, 5:54 AM
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At the risk of beating a dead horse (but I didn't find it when I quickly skimmed through 32 pages of this thread), how long is the entire process from start to finish when getting a trust? In other words, from the time you get the trust started (how long is that process?) to when you order the AOW and wait for it, approx how many months has been the average?


Also, if you get the trust, does this mean you can use that same trust on future AOW firearms? And if you can, does this mean the wait time is cut down quite a bit since you've already jumped through the hoops with your first AOW?
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  #795  
Old 01-06-2011, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SDM44 View Post
At the risk of beating a dead horse (but I didn't find it when I quickly skimmed through 32 pages of this thread), how long is the entire process from start to finish when getting a trust? In other words, from the time you get the trust started (how long is that process?) to when you order the AOW and wait for it, approx how many months has been the average?
Trust took one day from software to changed verbiage and notarized. Around 6 weeks for SBS F1 to appear in mailbox after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDM44 View Post
Also, if you get the trust, does this mean you can use that same trust on future AOW firearms? And if you can, does this mean the wait time is cut down quite a bit since you've already jumped through the hoops with your first AOW?
ABSOLUTELY! I even put in some non-NFA firearms in mine just because they *might* be some day.

Justin
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  #796  
Old 01-24-2011, 8:21 PM
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got a cool letter today that states that mounting an AOW under a rifle does not change the classification of the AOW into an SBS, and does not affect the rifle either.

I'll try to get some pics of the letter up tomorrow.

But here is the jist of the letter:

Quote:
Q1: If a registered AOW, such as a Serbu Super Shorty, is attached to an AR-15-type rifle in a confguration similiar to the Knight's Armament Masterkey, does the presence of the rifle's shoulder stock change the AOW's classification to that of a short-barreled shotgun?
A: No

Q2: In the Q1 scenario above, does the rifle's classification change when the AOW is attached?

A: No.
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  #797  
Old 01-24-2011, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
got a cool letter today that states that mounting an AOW under a rifle does not change the classification of the AOW into an SBS, and does not affect the rifle either.

I'll try to get some pics of the letter up tomorrow.

But here is the jist of the letter:
A.W.E.S.O.M.E.

Time for a Remington MCS
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  #798  
Old 01-24-2011, 8:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
got a cool letter today that states that mounting an AOW under a rifle does not change the classification of the AOW into an SBS, and does not affect the rifle either.

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing your next project.
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  #799  
Old 01-24-2011, 8:35 PM
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ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
A.W.E.S.O.M.E.

Time for a Remington MCS
figured you'd like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
Very cool! Looking forward to seeing your next project.
basically just trying to duplicate the "Masterkey" setup with a "Super Shorty" AOW. Everyone said that the rifle's shoulder stock turned the AOW into an SBS. ATF said otherwise.
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Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

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Old 01-24-2011, 8:42 PM
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DOJ won't care about this configuration I assume?
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