Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Discussions of Faith
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:31 PM
Kokopelli's Avatar
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "the drop edge of yonder"
Posts: 2,281
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Post Why did Elisha need a minstrel in order to prophesy?

Is there a spiritual connection between musical instruments, music, a prophet and God speaking or acting upon something? Does this occur with worship music today? Here is the scripture that leads me to ask....

Quote:
2 Kings 3:13-16a (NASB)

13 Now Elisha said to the king of Israel, “What do I have to do with you? Go to the prophets of your father and to the prophets of your mother.” And the king of Israel said to him, “No, for the Lord has called these three kings together to give them into the hand of Moab.” 14 Elisha said, “As the Lord of hosts lives, before whom I stand, were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, I would not look at you nor see you. 15 But now bring me a minstrel.” And it came about, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him. 16 He said, “Thus says the Lord,....
Thanks!
__________________
“If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” - Ronald Reagan

"God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best." - Voltaire
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-07-2018, 1:16 PM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 332
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Most definately a connection between worship music today that usually includes singing. In so called Full Gospel/Evangelical churches/fellowships this is very frequent .

Remember when David played his harp in King Saul's presence the " evil spirit from God " harassing Saul would leave for awhile ? Music can make powerful connections/differences in various situations.

Yes I am of the Full Gospel Evangelical direction. See this from time to time in different meetings.

Psalm 1
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-07-2018, 2:00 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 354
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Music promotes ecstatic experiences & stirs the emotions.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-07-2018, 2:40 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,014
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand Hunter View Post
Most definately a connection between worship music today that usually includes singing. In so called Full Gospel/Evangelical churches/fellowships this is very frequent .

Remember when David played his harp in King Saul's presence the " evil spirit from God " harassing Saul would leave for awhile ? Music can make powerful connections/differences in various situations.

Yes I am of the Full Gospel Evangelical direction. See this from time to time in different meetings.

Psalm 1
This is probably not far off. He was clearly angry at Jehoram. He needed to calm down. His Mentor Elijah often had minstrels when he was upset.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-07-2018, 3:11 PM
Charlie_Bravo Charlie_Bravo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: North Park, San Diego
Posts: 15
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Not a bible scholar here about to hit 3 years as a Christian so I’m fresh on the block!!

My perspective would be that prophetic words are subject to the prophet so depending on the positioning of the prophets heart will effect the prophetic word. When we play worship music to worship the Lord we must engage our heart to the Father thus realigning our heart if it is not in alignment or in position with God. So I view the minstrel almost as a heart tuning fork if you will. Prior to giving a word from the Lord he is making sure his heart is aligned with the Lord so that he doesn’t add words from a misdirected heart positioning.


If some of you bible scholarly men or women think I’m way off by all means I totally could be. This is just my initial thoughts and feelings upon reading your message.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-07-2018, 6:14 PM
Jn316's Avatar
Jn316 Jn316 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 92083
Posts: 359
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

(No. 1612)
Delivered on Lord's-Day Morning, August 7th, 1881, by
C. H. SPURGEON,
At the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington
The text is a somewhat singular one, but I hope it will suggest a profitable idea.

"But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him."- 2Ki 3:15

ELISHA needed that the Holy Spirit should come upon him to inspire him with prophetic utterances. "Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." We need that the hand of the Lord should be laid upon us, for we can never open our mouths in wisdom except we are under the divine touch. Now, the Spirit of God works according to his own will. "The wind bloweth where it listeth," and the Spirit of God operates as he chooseth. Elisha could not prophesy just when he liked; he must wait until the Spirit of God came upon him, and the Spirit of God could come or not even as he pleased. Elisha had noticed that the Spirit of God acted upon him most freely when his mind was restful and subdued. He found himself best prepared for the heavenly voice when the noise within his soul was hushed, and every disturbing emotion was quieted. Having ascertained this fact by observation he acted upon it. He could not create the wind of the Spirit, but he could set his sail to receive it, and he did so.

At the particular time alluded to in the text Elisha had been greatly irritated by the sight of Jehoram, the king of Israel, the son of Ahab and Jezebel. In the true spirit of his old master, Elijah, the prophet let Jehoram know what he thought of him; and having delivered his soul, he very naturally felt agitated and distressed, and unfit to be the mouthpiece for the Spirit of God. He knew that the hand of the Lord would not rest upon him while he was in that state, and therefore he said, "Bring me a minstrel." The original Hebrew conveys the idea of a man accustomed to play upon the harp. Listening to the dulcet tones which were produced by a skilful harper, who very likely sang one of David's psalms to the music, the prophet waited awhile, and then the hand of the Lord came upon him. Under the influence of minstrelsy his mind grew quiet, his agitation subsided, his thoughts were collected, and the Spirit of God spake through him. It was a most commendable thing for him to use the means which he had found at other times helpful, though still his sole reliance was upon the hand of the Lord. It would seem from a passage in the First Book of Samuel that Elisha was not the only prophet who had found music helpful, for we read, "Thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy." Elisha, like his predecessors, only used a natural means for putting himself into readiness for receiving supernatural help.
Charles Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-08-2018, 5:34 AM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 526
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Is there a spiritual connection between musical instruments, music, a prophet and God speaking or acting upon something? Does this occur with worship music today? Here is the scripture that leads me to ask....



Thanks!
"Connection" - yes. Causation - no. Necessary - no. In this context, the music was just to calm him first.

The problem with worship music today is (1) musicians are often performing more in the flesh than while filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20), (2) so the music sounds just like the world's music when it should offend the world just as much as Christ does, as the Bible does (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16), and (3) the worshippers (and you can include the musicians) see the worship music as something that primarily feeds them / excites them / serves them / etc. when it's primary purpose is the praise God. *IF* we put praising God with the right heart attitude FIRST, then we are fed as a byproduct. IOW, everything we do is to the glory of God first and foremost, even if it doesn't excite us, serve us, etc.

The comment I make most at the beginning of our worship services is to ask everyone to take a moment to put off / put aside everything else in their lives that they were carrying around with them and JUST focus this time of worship on glorifying God the Father through Jesus Christ. And, I pray that every part of our service - music, Scripture reading, Sermon, etc. is ALL glorifying to God in its entirety - and that none of it is held back by us for our benefit. We need to give it ALL to Him. What happens then is that the Lord gives us back blessing in return. Not emotional rah-rah feelings, but lives focused entirely on Him knowing the fullness of joy and peace and love in Christ.

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).
__________________
Pastor Bill

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God…” Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-08-2018, 9:55 AM
Alan Block Alan Block is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Once there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord .......
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:33 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,014
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
"Connection" - yes. Causation - no. Necessary - no. In this context, the music was just to calm him first.

The problem with worship music today is (1) musicians are often performing more in the flesh than while filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20), (2) so the music sounds just like the world's music when it should offend the world just as much as Christ does, as the Bible does (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16), and (3) the worshippers (and you can include the musicians) see the worship music as something that primarily feeds them / excites them / serves them / etc. when it's primary purpose is the praise God. *IF* we put praising God with the right heart attitude FIRST, then we are fed as a byproduct. IOW, everything we do is to the glory of God first and foremost, even if it doesn't excite us, serve us, etc.

The comment I make most at the beginning of our worship services is to ask everyone to take a moment to put off / put aside everything else in their lives that they were carrying around with them and JUST focus this time of worship on glorifying God the Father through Jesus Christ. And, I pray that every part of our service - music, Scripture reading, Sermon, etc. is ALL glorifying to God in its entirety - and that none of it is held back by us for our benefit. We need to give it ALL to Him. What happens then is that the Lord gives us back blessing in return. Not emotional rah-rah feelings, but lives focused entirely on Him knowing the fullness of joy and peace and love in Christ.

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).
This is precisely what I think of praise music. Applauding after the song is just as cringe worthy. Are they singing to God or entertaining the congregation? that said, let's not make this about that. The question was Elisha.
__________________
John 2:5

Last edited by RAMCLAP; 08-08-2018 at 11:03 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-08-2018, 11:04 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,014
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Psalm 47:1-9 Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy. For the LORD Most High is awesome, the great King over all the earth.
On the way to the temple. Not in the Temple.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-08-2018, 4:05 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 526
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
This is precisely what I think of praise music. Applauding after the song is just as cringe worthy. Are they singing to God or entertaining the congregation? that said, let's not make this about that. The question was Elisha.
Agreed - applauding in church - ugh. He asked above about worship music today, so that's what I was responding to.

__________________
Pastor Bill

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God…” Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-09-2018, 5:54 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,014
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
Agreed - applauding in church - ugh. He asked above about worship music today, so that's what I was responding to.

And you responded well.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-09-2018, 6:17 AM
creampuff creampuff is online now
Village idiot
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,053
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
"I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).
Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":
Quote:
Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray,
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"

Quote:
Abolitionist activist Horatio Spafford had a nice life in the Chicago suburbs with his wife and five children and always welcomed guests in their home. Then in 1870, his 4-year-old died of scarlet fever, and in 1871 the Great Chicago Fire destroyed most of his investments (which were in Chicago real estate).

In 1873, the family wanted to sail to Europe for much-needed time away from their tragedy and to help in a revival, but on the day of departure, Horatio had a last-minute business emergency. He sent the family on ahead and planned to follow on another ship in a few days. But their ship was struck by another ship and sank in 12 minutes—the remainder of his four children died and only his wife was saved and brought to England. He immediately set sail to be with his wife, and as his ship passed the place where his daughters drowned, he penned It Is Well, and music was composed to accompany it in 1876.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-10-2018, 3:56 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 526
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":


The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"
Just did "And Can it Be" in the past two weeks! LOVE that hymn!

God bless,
__________________
Pastor Bill

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God…” Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-10-2018, 3:57 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 526
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":


The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"
And, my daughter-in-law is singing "It is well" during our time of giving this coming Sunday! Another favorite. Be sure you know the story behind the writing of that song - amazing.
__________________
Pastor Bill

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God…” Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-11-2018, 6:55 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,014
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemporary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.
__________________
John 2:5

Last edited by RAMCLAP; 08-11-2018 at 9:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-11-2018, 9:07 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 2,296
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemorary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.
Well said!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-12-2018, 8:00 PM
colossians323's Avatar
colossians323 colossians323 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,026
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).
Interesting take. Is Piano and Keyboard what makes the sound phenomenal?

I think every generation plays music that speaks to their era, and the lyrics are typically straight out of the bible, not of all modern worship songs, but most that enter the church building.

I am pretty sure the early hymns musical style was not set apart from the world but sounded like the "worlds music", but introduce the lyrics and you have "Godly music" Music is just music without the lyrics.

I am pretty sure when David was playing and banging cymbals that similar music happens today.

Take these popular lyrics from a modern day song, do these sound like there of the world?

Quote:
The Lion and the Lamb

Artist: Big Daddy Weave

He's coming on the clouds, kings and kingdoms will bow down
And every chain will break, as broken hearts declare His praise
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb

So open up the gates, make way before the King of kings
Our God who calls the saved is here to set the captives free
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb

Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Oh who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Oh who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Does the world know who the slain lamb is?
Does the world accept that every knee will bow down?
Who is able to stop he LORD almighty?
__________________
LIVE FREE OR DIE!

M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-12-2018, 8:04 PM
colossians323's Avatar
colossians323 colossians323 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,026
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemporary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.
Maybe you can give an example? Scripture filled music is deep and thoughtful, what type of Contemporary Christian music are you talking about?
Please be specific, I am at a loss as to what you are talking about.

As far as Christianity looking lame and stoopid to outside culture, that has always been the case, its not like anything new is happening. The sick will come to the healer, those who view themselves as well will call anything Christianity as lame and stoopid.
__________________
LIVE FREE OR DIE!

M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-13-2018, 5:46 AM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 526
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
Interesting take. Is Piano and Keyboard what makes the sound phenomenal?

I think every generation plays music that speaks to their era, and the lyrics are typically straight out of the bible, not of all modern worship songs, but most that enter the church building.

I am pretty sure the early hymns musical style was not set apart from the world but sounded like the "worlds music", but introduce the lyrics and you have "Godly music" Music is just music without the lyrics.

I am pretty sure when David was playing and banging cymbals that similar music happens today.

Take these popular lyrics from a modern day song, do these sound like there of the world?



Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Does the world know who the slain lamb is?
Does the world accept that every knee will bow down?
Who is able to stop he LORD almighty?
The piano and keyboard were just part of my story of how I had to assume music responsibility. Nope, not a requirement.

As I wrote, there's a lot of phenomenal music today (the tune), but the first priority is God-honoring words = theologically sound words. That doesn't rule out all of today's music. I used Getty as an example.

I think that the ultimate test is when a mature Christian evaluates the worship they see God please the most, man blessed as a by-product, and no one exalting themselves or the music itself. If hearts and minds, filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18) prepare and perform and praise with the music, Christ will be pleased.

And, not all churches / services have to be the same. I wouldn't expect a service to youth to have exactly the same music as a service to elderly. Nor services in Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, and even different regions of the US to sound the same! We have different styles of music and use different instruments (a pipe organ in a small village in Africa? Nope.).

But, on the other hand, if I walk into a service with a rock band, light show, musicians attracting attention from their dress and performance, I'm going to suspect that they lyrics won't pass the test of theology and will watch to see if the worship will please the Lord or not. As a pastor, I have to make that decision every Sunday at our Church. I then also watch the rest of the service to see if the sermon is a solid, exegetical, expository, biblical sermon that edifies (vs. a rah-rah, emotional, self-help, conversation, etc.). After seeing the music, I'm going to suspect not, but I'll give it a chance. IOW, only by seeing and testing the whole service against Scripture can one determine if Christ is being honored in His church.
__________________
Pastor Bill

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God…” Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-13-2018, 6:34 AM
Kokopelli's Avatar
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "the drop edge of yonder"
Posts: 2,281
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default colossians323 has it right

Is CCM of God or of the devil?

Bands, lights, new songs, worshiping lyrics, modern composers, keyboards, electric guitars.

Is it of God or of the devil?

It's one or the other.

Quote:
Mark 9:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.
Who are those that judge how Holy Spirit is moving in the lives of others? That is the sin of the Pharisees, who taught the traditions of men and not The Spirit God.

Quote:
Matthew 15:2-6 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders?
Quote:
Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Quote:
Mark 7:6-7 (NIV)

He replied, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,

“‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
If pianos, organs, hymns and choir robes work for your congregation, GREAT! Go with God. Be blessed. But don't judge those that are doing it differently as The Spirit guides them.

Quote:
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the LORD is able to make them stand.
__________________
“If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” - Ronald Reagan

"God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best." - Voltaire
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-13-2018, 8:57 AM
Alan Block Alan Block is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Thw most recent incarnation is Haile Sellasse.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:35 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.