Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Rimfire Firearms
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Lexington-1 Lexington-1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 100
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Subsonic .22

Gents

I know that most .22 rifles off the shelf on average can accurately shoot a 1 inch group up to 50 yards with standard .22 ammo. With subsonic .22 they obviously shoot with a lower velocity. Because of the lower velocity, does this translate into a shorter accurate range? If so, by how much, 5 yards, 10 yards etc.?

I know there can be a lot of variations to consider so I'm not looking specific but a general answer. But to help narrow it down. Let's base this on a Rugger 10/22 Carbine.

If anyone has used .22 subsonic. I'd appreciate if you would share your experience with using them.

The purpose of using .22 subsonic is for rat pest control on a farm.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-01-2012, 1:17 PM
Dakine_surf's Avatar
Dakine_surf Dakine_surf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Goleta the Goodland
Posts: 389
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I use the aguilla Sniper Sub Sonic 60 gr ammo.

It is quiet, cycles about 80% of the time, and the 60 grain bullet really smacks with authority. It is not cheap however. But if you are using it for pest control, it is one of the best rounds available.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-01-2012, 1:32 PM
Izzy43's Avatar
Izzy43 Izzy43 is offline
CGSSA Rimfire Coordinator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Idyllwild, Ca (in the snow)
Posts: 2,672
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington-1 View Post
Gents

I know that most .22 rifles off the shelf on average can accurately shoot a 1 inch group up to 50 yards with standard .22 ammo. With subsonic .22 they obviously shoot with a lower velocity. Because of the lower velocity, does this translate into a shorter accurate range? If so, by how much, 5 yards, 10 yards etc.?

I know there can be a lot of variations to consider so I'm not looking specific but a general answer. But to help narrow it down. Let's base this on a Rugger 10/22 Carbine.

If anyone has used .22 subsonic. I'd appreciate if you would share your experience with using them.

The purpose of using .22 subsonic is for rat pest control on a farm.

Thanks
.22 Subsonic begins to really outperform high velocity .22 at ranges beyond about 35-40 yards. At close range it probably doesn't matter which ammo you use. For quieter hard hitting ammo I would suggest Winchester Super-X Subsonic Hollow points. They have a huge hollow point and really put a whoopin on small critters.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-01-2012, 2:12 PM
pennys dad's Avatar
pennys dad pennys dad is offline
CGSSA President
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 5,962
iTrader: 196 / 100%
Default

Agreed with Izzy. My follow up shots with subsonic are great, hence my accuracy with subsonic is excellent. I shoot subsonic from 25 to 100 yards with come ups and I am happy with the results.
__________________

Here to help

Pennys Dad
CALGUNS Shooting Sports Association
CALGUNS official 501 C3 Non-Profit

Ps 25:4-5 NLT Show me the right path, O Lord; point out the road for me to follow. Lead me by your truth and teach me, for you are the God who saves me. All day long I put my hope in you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-01-2012, 7:23 PM
hakenlag's Avatar
hakenlag hakenlag is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 783
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Lexington-1, I bet you're a little confused right about now, right?

High velocity .22 rounds leave the barrel above the speed of sound. As they slow, they obviously drop to sub-sonic. When this happens their sonic boom (shockwave) catches up to them. Since the bullets are small and light, they get tossed around and will lose accuracy. Subsonics don't have a sonic boom chasing them so they don't get smacked in the rear as it goes by. That is why subsonics tend to be more accurate. The purpose of high velocity ammo isn't as much for longer range accuracy as it is to hit small game harder. While the subsonic is fine for rats and smaller rodents, it's not as effective on larger critters. I know from personal experience that subsonics will bounce off an oppossum skull whereas the slightly less accurate but much harder hitting velocitor won't. But as long as you avoid the skull and go for heart/lungs on an opossum, even the CCI Quiets (710 fps according to manufacturer data) will drop 'em.... real quiet like.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-14-2012, 3:17 AM
Lexington-1 Lexington-1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 100
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks for the info gents.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-14-2012, 1:43 PM
deadcoyote's Avatar
deadcoyote deadcoyote is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Far North CA
Posts: 2,754
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

It really dependa on the firearm and the round. I like the concept of subsonic just for reduced report, I have an old Remington 521 targetmaster that didn't shoot most I tried well. However, I recently tried the Remington sub-sonic with the lightening bolts on the green box ($4 for 50 at Walmart). It worked great to 50 yards, just as good as target loads or the hyper velocity stuff. i've found my Remington and my Savage both have different loads that they specifically run better than others.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-14-2012, 1:54 PM
Rangem4's Avatar
Rangem4 Rangem4 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 408
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default OK Question

I have some CCI 40 gr. 1070 fps.
1,070 feet per second is 729 miles per hour.
This is pretty hard hitting ammo and it makes a pretty good crack when I shoot it.

The speed of sound is the distance travelled during a unit of time by a sound wave propagating through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 C (68 F), the speed of sound is 343.2 metres per second (1,126 ft/s). This is 1,236 kilometres per hour (768 mph), or about one kilometer in three seconds or approximately one mile in five seconds.

So based on this data most 22lr. ammo is subsonic right?
I know the temperature and altitude make a difference.
__________________
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-14-2012, 2:02 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,819
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Subsonic 22 ammo will be far more accurate at longer ranges. If you want to shoot at a distances past where supersonic amm becomes subsonic you will get zero precision or accuracy from supersonic ammo but, the subsonic stuff will perform well.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-17-2012, 9:12 AM
donw's Avatar
donw donw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: between temecula and palm springs
Posts: 1,709
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

subsonics work really well and are 'quiet' but unless you 'tune' a semi-auto you may have feeding/cycling problems.

i found that to be true on an older Erma Luger i had a while ago
__________________
NRA life member, US Army Veteran

i am a legend in my own mind...

we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical...

"The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Izzy43's Avatar
Izzy43 Izzy43 is offline
CGSSA Rimfire Coordinator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Idyllwild, Ca (in the snow)
Posts: 2,672
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangem4 View Post
I have some CCI 40 gr. 1070 fps.
1,070 feet per second is 729 miles per hour.
This is pretty hard hitting ammo and it makes a pretty good crack when I shoot it.

The speed of sound is the distance travelled during a unit of time by a sound wave propagating through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 C (68 F), the speed of sound is 343.2 metres per second (1,126 ft/s). This is 1,236 kilometres per hour (768 mph), or about one kilometer in three seconds or approximately one mile in five seconds.

So based on this data most 22lr. ammo is subsonic right?
I know the temperature and altitude make a difference.
I don't know for sure and wouldn't bet a nickel on it but my best guess is that there is more Bulk .22lr ammo than subsonic. Most Bulk ammo is 1200fps or above. Low priced subsonic target ammo is around $5/50 where bulk ammo is $15-25/550. More folks are likely to spend $.03-.06 per round than $.10-30 per round. So I think high velocity ammo is more plentiful than subsonic.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-17-2012, 3:51 PM
SB1964's Avatar
SB1964 SB1964 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,062
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

The Winchester Subs I use are MORE Accurate than typical High Velocity I use. I like the Win. Super x 40 Grain Subsonic. Significant noise reduction, good Cycling. The Trick to Subsonic is getting the Grain & Velocity you need matched for your Gun. Subs are even made with Primer only, very low powered. I`ve prolly only shot 150 rounds of the Subs I like, very accurate & no issues. I`m not a Match Guy, nor do I shoot at longer Ranges, say over 100 yrds.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-20-2012, 4:33 PM
Levetti's Avatar
Levetti Levetti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 331
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

CCI Quiets at 710fps won't consistantly cycle my semi-autos, but they are accurate up to 400 yds in my boltgun. They are also very quiet. I always have problems with subsonic ammo and its consistency. Seems like most subsonic can vary +-200 fps;you have rounds that sound really hot, and rounds that you can't even hear.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-20-2012, 4:40 PM
Dannicus's Avatar
Dannicus Dannicus is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Navy Yard City
Posts: 2,578
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Subsonic 22 ammo will be far more accurate at longer ranges. If you want to shoot at a distances past where supersonic amm becomes subsonic you will get zero precision or accuracy from supersonic ammo but, the subsonic stuff will perform well.
This isn't always the case, of course. My best shooting .22 rifle generally shoots a little tighter at 100 yards with high quality HV ammo than with most low velocity or standard velocity stuff I've tried.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-20-2012, 4:55 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,819
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannicus View Post
This isn't always the case, of course. My best shooting .22 rifle generally shoots a little tighter at 100 yards with high quality HV ammo than with most low velocity or standard velocity stuff I've tried.
So, you shoot to distances past where HV ammo goes subsonic and get better precision than shooting subsonic ammo? I'm willing to bet you don't. In fact, I'll bet you that my statement is 100% accurate for ALL ammo out of any firearm. So, what you got to bet? BTW, at 100 yards, your HV ammo is still supersonic so, your experiences don't apply to my statement.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-21-2012, 12:21 AM
korny351 korny351 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Stockton. CA
Posts: 105
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
BTW, at 100 yards, your HV ammo is still supersonic so, your experiences don't apply to my statement.
CSA, I respectfully disagree with this statement. Taking data from CCI's website, MiniMags have a MV of 1260 fps. and 1200 fps. for 36 and 40 gr. variants. At 50 yds, they are traveling 1104 and 1092 fps. respectively, already below the speed of sound. At 100 yds they have both fallen off in the neighborhood of 1000 fps. I'm fairly certain that other mfg's HV ammo will perform similarly.

I would still question Dannicus' statement that HV is more accurate than subsonic. I'd have to say, he just hasn't found the subsonic ammo that's the best match for his rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-21-2012, 7:36 AM
Izzy43's Avatar
Izzy43 Izzy43 is offline
CGSSA Rimfire Coordinator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Idyllwild, Ca (in the snow)
Posts: 2,672
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

This is directed at no one in particular but when I see statements that say this or that ammo shoots more accurately that some other one I prefer to see some comparative targets for that ammo. The problem with accuracy statements is that the poster doesn't specify what accuracy he/she is referring to.

When accuracy of ammo is given in terms of MOA @ a specific distance then that's some useful information. Just saying its accuracte @ 100yds has little meaning in the real world.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:27 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.