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  #201  
Old 11-30-2014, 12:42 PM
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Who told you to get the livescan after your interview? Everyone else gets it after their approval.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mamono View Post
Orange County
08/23/2014 - Appointment Request Submitted
09/08/2014 - Appointment Scheduled 02/05/15
11/07/2014 - Appointment Scheduled Moved 11/21/2014
11/21/2014 - Application Submittal and Interview
11/21/2014 - Live Scan Submittal
11/22/2014 - Residency Check @ 9:30AM
?????????? - Initial Approval
?????????? - CCW Training

I was told to hold off on the training until I get initial approval. I was also told to get Live Scan after the interview.

*Note: When appearing for the interview, the receptionist will tell you to fill out pages 9-10 on the application even though the application states not to do so. The interviewing sheriff will reference the details and ask you the questions to confirm what was written, but they prefer that you write it in advance so they don't have to. Less work for the Sheriff, makes the process go quicker.
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  #202  
Old 11-30-2014, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
Who told you to get the livescan after your interview? Everyone else gets it after their approval.

The OC Sheriff that interviewed me told me to go get it done at my earliest convenience. I was off that day, so I got it done the same day. I was under the impression that I had to wait for approval also, but I'm not going to question the Sheriff.
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  #203  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamono View Post
The OC Sheriff that interviewed me told me to go get it done at my earliest convenience. I was off that day, so I got it done the same day. I was under the impression that I had to wait for approval also, but I'm not going to question the Sheriff.

That's a change from what others have done. I'm guessing they gave you the form for the Livescan?

Also, it's best to schedule, and if possible, take your training now. There's no reason not to unless you have something in your background that you think will hang you up. I doubt that's the case otherwise they wouldn't have told you to get the Livescan.
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  #204  
Old 12-02-2014, 12:14 PM
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If they didn't specifically give you a OCSD "Request for Live scan" form with all the OCSD info preprinted on it.....then you will have to do it again. This form is usually NOT given until you are approved. If you did it without that form.....the livescan results will not be forward to the OCSD CCW dept.
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  #205  
Old 12-02-2014, 10:35 PM
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The livescan form for OCSD is available on their website under the important documents website with all the preprinted information. That was the form I submitted.

http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw
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  #206  
Old 12-02-2014, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamono View Post
The livescan form for OCSD is available on their website under the important documents website with all the preprinted information. That was the form I submitted.

http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw
You'll be ahead of the game. Get your training or at least sign up now. There is no reason you can't.
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  #207  
Old 12-03-2014, 7:25 AM
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My interview is on January 14 2015 can't wait
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  #208  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:04 PM
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Picking mine up this week. Thanks OCSD PSD
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  #209  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:19 PM
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11/04/2014 - Initial interview
11/10/2014 - Residency check
11/24/2014 - Conditional approval
11/26/2014 - Live scan submitted
12/08/2014 - Training scheduled for 12/21/2014
??????????? - Final approval - was told 12 weeks from submission of live scan
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  #210  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:54 PM
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Obviously I'm in no real hurry here also we had some family issues that were more important to me than a CCW, step-dads cancer, step-dads death, 2nd grandkids birth, daughters heart surgery. But here's where I'm at now.

4/15/15 orig appointment

4/16/14 new appointment

4/29/14 residence check

5/9/14 Approved for further processing

6/12/14 Live scan

6/14/14 to 9/28/14 Randomly called the hotline and FBI and DOJ cleared 6/12/14 but no firearms clearance?

9/29/14 Cleared after phone call to OCSD who says "oh yeah you're good to go"

12/8/14 take training

Now I assume I call OCSD and set up an appt to drop off my training certificate?
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Last edited by psssniper; 12-10-2014 at 10:57 PM..
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  #211  
Old 12-11-2014, 9:06 AM
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Correct. After to your cert contact the gal who sent you the Livescan form. They'll likely want you to scan/fax the form to them. They'll sent up an appointment to come in and get your plastic.
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  #212  
Old 12-12-2014, 7:10 PM
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Plastic pick up 12/13/14 @ 12:00

there ya have it
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  #213  
Old 12-19-2014, 7:00 PM
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Psssniper why did you wait for your training? I did my i interview same week as yours and have been carrying for months now. Anyone else reading this go knock out your training way before your get cleared for anything. If you know your not a criminal your going to be approved! Don't wait
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  #214  
Old 12-19-2014, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannie41560 View Post
Psssniper why did you wait for your training? I did my i interview same week as yours and have been carrying for months now. Anyone else reading this go knock out your training way before your get cleared for anything. If you know your not a criminal your going to be approved! Don't wait
like he said life happened. I'm sure having to deal with family illness and passing of family trumps taking a training class to get your CCW.
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  #215  
Old 12-24-2014, 6:58 AM
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Sorry to hear about your rough year Jay, next year HAS to be better..hang in there.
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  #216  
Old 12-31-2014, 9:54 AM
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Got the final approval email yesterday. 5 months and 2 weeks from request for interview to pick up date.

Interview Request: 7/29/2014
Initial Interview: 11/4/2014
Actual Interview: 10/14/2014
Training: 10/26 - 10/30
Residence Check: 10/23/2014
Approval Letter: 11/19/2014
LiveScan: 11/19/2014
LiveScan Results (DOJ / FBI) 11/19/2014
Training Certificate submitted: 11/20/14
Approval for pickup email: 12/30/14
Permit Pick up Date: 1/12/15
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  #217  
Old 12-31-2014, 10:07 AM
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/\ Nice!
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  #218  
Old 01-21-2015, 1:54 PM
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I see that several people brought 2 passport photos with them to the initial interview; however I don't see any mention of this on their website or the documentation. Can anyone confirm whether this is needed?
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  #219  
Old 01-21-2015, 6:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardWarrior View Post
I see that several people brought 2 passport photos with them to the initial interview; however I don't see any mention of this on their website or the documentation. Can anyone confirm whether this is needed?
I brought two, they only took one, better over prepared than under prepared
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  #220  
Old 01-22-2015, 12:00 AM
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Default Orange County CCW Applicants - Please Provide a Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardWarrior View Post
I see that several people brought 2 passport photos with them to the initial interview; however I don't see any mention of this on their website or the documentation. Can anyone confirm whether this is needed?

You no longer have to provide pictures (that's why you don't see it on the website.)

In the past you had to provide two; one was used during res check and the other was placed in your file. They now just use your CDL picture for res check and they take your picture at your interview or when you come to pick up your permit.

.

Last edited by Doheny; 01-22-2015 at 12:54 AM.. Reason: Typo
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  #221  
Old 01-22-2015, 10:16 AM
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Thanks for replies. Interview coming up very soon. Will provide a log shortly.
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  #222  
Old 01-22-2015, 4:36 PM
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I hadn't seen THIS log.

Here's my timeline so far

Sept 4, 2014 request for interview.

Sept 5 2014 assigned interview date of February 3, 2015

November 6, 2014, email accelerating interview date to December 4, 2014.

December 4, 2014, interview. Told of new policy (as of 11/21 or so) to immediately obtain Livescan, and complete training within 60 days, do not bother calling to check status for 12 weeks, Livescan expected to take 12 weeks, that's why they changed the procedure.

December 5, 2014 Livescan at cal state fullerton.

January 5 and 8, 2015, complete training with Greg Block.

January 9-15 (approx), email training cert and call re ensure package is complete. I'm again told it takes 12 weeks for Livescan.

Now, waiting.
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  #223  
Old 01-23-2015, 4:30 PM
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Learned a couple of things from my initial interview experience:
- If your appointment is at 8 am, you can't really follow the email about arriving 15 minutes early... Building 320 opens at 8 am.
- Don't bring a zippered folio to carry your papers.
- Total time from check in to departure was 1 hour 15 minutes for me.
- Did not need to bring in pictures. They only took the top page each utility bill (even though I brought in 3 months worth). I was told to start the Livescan process and go for training.

The whole experience was really good. Very polite and efficient people working at OCSD. There were 10 others who were there submitting their initial application. Multiple times I heard that using 'self defense' was an acceptable reason on the application, but if at a later date that reason was no longer good enough, all permits using that reasoning will be pulled. If there was additional cause, then use that one instead. The deputy who was interviewing me said that approximately 1,500 ccw permits have been approved so far.
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  #224  
Old 01-23-2015, 7:50 PM
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Monday & Tuesday ccw approved class $200 @ Ft3.com stanton orange county. Call now or go pay now asap. Tj Johnson teacher. 8hrs a day

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  #225  
Old 01-25-2015, 12:27 PM
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January Training Schedule
CA-CCW: January 26th & 27th (Mon & Tues) 8:00 AM- 5:00 PM
Orange County’s Premiere Range is now partnering with Orange County’s Premiere Instructor- TJ Johnston!
This course is approved by the Orange County Sheriff Department. This is the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home, the premiere CCW course in the nation. This 16-hour course includes classroom & range qualification as required by the OC Sheriff to obtain your concealed carry permit. Enjoy the convenience of having both the classroom and shooting portions of this class at 1 location.

Instructor- TJ Johnston of AllSafe Defense Systems
•NRA Master Training Counselor
•Member of the NRA Board of Directors
•Certified Firearms Instructor since 1986

Equipment Needed: A centerfire handgun, an approved strong-side hip holster, a minimum of 2 magazines (or 3 speedloaders for revolvers) and a minimum of 200 rounds for each day. The shooters must wear a concealment garment that covers their handgun and magazines. You should bring a tactical flashlight for the low light shooting stage. Each additional gun added to your permit will require 70 rounds per firearm.

Cost: $200 (15% ammo discount if you purchase FT3 ammo for the class

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  #226  
Old 01-26-2015, 6:46 PM
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Ccw class...16 started. 14 pass day 1. Very Intense!!!! 2nd day 400-500 rounds++ estimate!

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  #227  
Old 01-27-2015, 1:01 PM
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My Timeline:

Sept 5, 2014: Request for interview

Sept 9 2014: Got an email saying I have an interview on February 12, 2015

Sept 10 2014: Got an email saying interview is moved to February 13, 2015

November 7, 2014: Received email moving interview date to December 18, 2014.

December 18, 2014: Interviewed.

December 22, 2014: Res check

December 23, 2014: Submitted livescan application via UPS store in Lake Forest.

January 3 and 4, 2015: Training with Mike Muller @ On Target

January 10, 2015: Got certificate of 18 hours of training and faxed it to sheriff's office. Was told that livescan may take up to 16 weeks.

January 27, 2015: Still waiting.

UPDATE:
January 29, 2015: Received an email for final appointment for February 5, 2015
January 30, 2015: Replied back to reschedule.
February 3, 2015, Received email, new appointment is on February 13, 2015
February 13, 2015: Showed up to the appointment and received my permit.

Last edited by ramtab; 02-13-2015 at 1:34 PM.. Reason: update
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  #228  
Old 01-28-2015, 9:56 AM
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Default FT3.COM CLASS WAS 1000% GREAT! 58YR OLD SHOOTER SINCE 1960s

--------------CCW Class FT3.com Conclusion: 13 of 16 pass. -------------------

Hello all Calguns friends: I have been shooting since my teens! Dad was a WW2 Vet & 28yr Army Reservist! My 1st shots were on BB guns & M60s (blanks)! I have been shooting Center fire since 1960s! 1990s Ipsc shooter in 3 counties, 1995 NRA Certified Instructor, high school buddy owned a gun shop with $3m/inventory, August 2014 approved by OCSD but.............

I was hesitant for 3+ months decided against completing the CCW...... The criminal & civil cases after the shooting scared me more than giving them my money & visiting the hospital on my own!!! I have been in many emergency rooms due to motorcycles, snow boarding, boating, cars, kidney stones, etc. etc. But I also have "courtroom experience". Over 117 court cases as a Paralegal & Landlord. In court & pre-court legal fights... 99% Civil cases and only 1 criminal case (I was the victim 1991). Let me tell you, I would rather visit the hospital and be out of work for 1-2 months than in court for 1-2 years! (narrow minded conclusion without analysis).

I spent the past 3 months researching if I can protect myself before & after a CCW shooting, reading, watching videos, reading about 100 shootings, DA opinions & reports, 50+ videos/interviews, court cases, procedures after the shooting, the many "lawsuits" after the shooting.... sucks & scares the poop out of you!!! I know, my 1st pooping accident was seeing 3 dead Tourists in Mexico and how they died because of not complying with the robbers! TMI

Reading insurance policies, terms, documents, criminal, civil policies, bond contracts & the different "insurance, bond, & service" companies/offerings out there........, IT'S A WHOLE NASTY MEAN COMPLICATED WORLD OUT THERE BEFORE AND AFTER A CCW SHOOTING! LOOK AT THE COPS & ZIMMERMAN CASES. YOUR LABELED A KILLER AND PSYCHOTIC EVEN IF YOUR SHOOTING IS 100% JUSTIFIED. YOU HAVE TO MOVE MOST LIKELY, A BIG $10K $50K $100K OUT OF POCKET EXPENSE TOO! (Did you think about this cost). Your home will have to be sold and a new home bought, if you have the money left after the justified shooting. You loose your home if it's not 100% justified... due to the legal "explosion" of fees...

I "CONCLUDED & ACCEPTED" the expected expenses of $2000+ per year in costs!!!!

I expect (WILL) buy & carry $10 million Umbrella Insurance, $1 to $2 million Bond coverage and $600,000 in Legal expense Insurance, AN ATTORNEY RESPOND TO SHOOTING INSURANCE POLICY, ETC. This amounts to about $2000 to $3000 per year in gun related maintenance, training & insurance costs.

Sucks but I rather be in court than injured, comatosed, wheel chaired, blind, 99% crippled or dead.. because I am 58 not 28! I don't have insurance to take care of me in a bed/wheel chair 24/7! That insurance is like $50-100k/year & that's not an acceptable life style..

www.uslawshield.com
www.usconcealedcarry.com
www.uscca.com
www.ccwsafe.com

YOUR INSURANCE AGENT BROKER CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH A QUOTE FOR $1, $3, $5, $7, $10 MILLION UMBRELLA INSURANCE.

This post is not to considered as legal advice but an opinion of a private citizen... all info here must be verified with your attorney, a civil & criminal attorney, hopefully an attorney with 100s or 1000s of hours with gun cases!

Good luck new CCW's I'm not 100% comfortable about packing all the time. Just in the "nasty high crime" areas of California!!
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  #229  
Old 01-28-2015, 5:47 PM
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Thank you!
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  #230  
Old 01-29-2015, 6:43 AM
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Default Page1=by Marty Hayes, J.D. President Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc.

Post Self Defense Support: The Buyer's Guide by Marty Hayes, J.D.
President Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc.

For over five years both members and non-members have been asking me to compare what the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. (the Network) does for its members versus what is offered by all the other companies and products now being offered to help deal with the legal aftermath of a self-defense incident. At our readers’ urging, I have decided to take on this task. Instead of a chart like the other companies use–a chart designed to highlight attributes of their programs and down play the competitors’–I will give a detailed narrative and explanation of all the different types of programs of which I am currently aware. But before I get into the nuts and bolts of all these programs, a little history lesson is in order.

Before the Network was born, the National Rifle Association promoted an NRA-endorsed insurance program offered by Lockton Risk. This program was expensive. If I am remembering correctly it cost about $400 a year. The insurance did nothing to help a person avoid being convicted of a crime, but instead offered to reimburse a policy holder for expenses (up to $50,000, I believe) associated with fighting a criminal charge after an act of self defense. I believe it also had up to $250,000 civil claim insurance coverage, if my memory is right. Well, I wasn’t interested in that program because any defense in a murder trial where the defendant is claiming self defense could vastly exceed the $50,000 limit, and even so, I had to first pay attorneys large sums of money to which I did not have access.

Concurrently, I was aware of Texas Law Shield, a pre-paid legal services firm. They were only active in Texas at the time, so that didn’t help me in Washington State. Besides, I wasn’t interested in pre-paid legal services, because if my freedom was at stake, I wanted to be able to choose my own defense attorney, and not rely upon an attorney of unknown knowledge and skill.

Even before I began exploring these plans, I’d decided to go to law school to at least be able to assist in fighting an unmeritorious prosecution after a self-defense shooting for my students in my other business, The Firearms Academy of Seattle, Inc.

While going through the four years of law school, my mind kept searching for solutions to what Jeff Cooper called “problem two,” the legal aftermath. I began to envision a network comprised of like-minded gun owners, joining together to form their own legal services co-operative, so that if one of the group was targeted by the criminal justice system, all the members could pitch in to mount a competent defense. After discussing the concept with several of my colleagues and friends in the firearms training industry, many of them now on our advisory board, we started the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network. This was in January of 2008 and since then, the Network has grown to over 8,400 members nationwide, a feat that still amazes and humbles me.

So, there you have the quick history lesson about why we started the Network. Since our introduction in 2008, a number of competing businesses have sprung up, making varied promises to gun owners. These can be categorized into four types:
1) Insurance
2) Insurance backed
3) Pre-paid legal services
4) The Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc., a membership organization.

Let’s make a detailed exploration of each type of plan.

Insurance Plans
Insurance works on the premise that a specified incident (called a “condition subsequent” in legal lingo) must occur before insurance will pay off. The insured must not have intentional control over that occurrence. This means that someone else must do something or an act of God must occur, and that the act is specified in the insurance policy. In a self-defense insurance policy, the condition subsequent is the acquittal or dismissal of criminal charges. In other words, if the jury found you not guilty by reason of an act of self defense, then your legal fees are reimbursed up to the limits of the policy. Most of the insurance policies reimburse between $50,000 and $100,000 for criminal defense legal fees, based on a sliding scale of premium dues. (To further your understanding, you should read the Lockton Risk Insurance Policy at http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/fo...olicy-form.pdf)

The insurance company may reimburse your legal expenses if the prosecutor dismisses charges against you. See Section XIII of the above link and if you have an insurance policy, check your own policy so you know where you stand. If, however, there is no acquittal or dismissal, but instead a plea bargain, a hung jury or a conviction, you are not entitled to reimbursement of legal fees for your criminal defense. In reading the fine print of the Lockton Risk policy, you’ll notice that if found guilty, even through taking a plea bargain and pleading guilty to a very low level crime, the insurer is no longer obligated to help you fight a subsequent civil claim for liability.

The outcome of a criminal trial also affects your civil insurance coverage. The Lockton Risk policy states that if you are found guilty at trial or accept a plea bargain, your civil insurance coverage ends. Given the extended nature of criminal and civil trials, it is likely that you will be sued while waiting for the criminal trial. If this is the case, and you are found guilty or take a plea bargain, your civil insurance would likely end. This one fact makes going to trial a very big gamble, if there was a very accommodating plea bargain being offered by the prosecution.

Understand that the civil trial if covered by an insurance carrier will be totally separate from the criminal trial, with the insurance carrier hiring the attorneys for you and running the defense themselves. You have no say in how that goes, and the insurance carrier can settle the lawsuit without your permission. And, given the fact that a wrongful death claim will likely be for millions of dollars, if you choose to go the insurance route, my advice would be to not go cheap, but get the full $1,000,000.00 coverage.

Companies offering insurance include:
Lockton Risk—http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/about.htm
Second Call Defense—http://www.secondcalldefense.org/
Self Defense Association–http://sdamember.com
Concealed Weapon Insurance https://www.concealedweaponins.com

As we wrap up our discussion of insurance plans, let me add that I am peripherally aware of the USAA insurance company, which supplies insurance to military families. I have been told that this company covers self-defense acts in their insurance coverage. Not being a member, I have no access to USAA’s actual policy. Military families should check this out and see what USAA can do for you and under what circumstances. See www.usaa.com.

The bottom line on insurance is that you will have to foot the bill for your criminal defense, and expect to be reimbursed only if you are acquitted or the charges are dropped before trial.

The “Insurance-Backed” Membership Program
The only “insurance backed” membership program of which I am aware is sold by the United States Concealed Carry Association. Because they are alone in this category, there’s little choice but to address their program specifically. Their promotions emphasize that USCCA is the insured and their members are the beneficiaries. Having watched USCCA promote their Self-Defense Shield in several different permutations over a number of years, I remain uncertain how it works in practice, not theory.

I do know I personally would want to own the insurance policy if I was paying costly premiums, or at least have a signed, ironclad written agreement. The wise buyer will ask some very pointed and specific questions including:
1) Can you provide a written document detailing the step-by-step procedures of how your program works to protect me, both criminally and civilly?
2) Will you sign a contract with me, so I know that what you promise to provide is backed up by a legally-binding contract?
3) May I look at the policy that you have which names me as the beneficiary of the insurance policy?

This is serious stuff, people. When you pay money, you deserve ironclad answers to these and other questions before you bet your freedom on a claim that you are a beneficiary of an insurance policy of which you are not the named policyholder.

Pre-Paid Legal Services
Traditionally, customers concerned about legal expenses after self defense have chosen between insurance or pre-paid legal programs. As I write this in August of 2014, there are a large number of pre-paid legal services plans marketed to the self-defense crowd. The prominent programs include CCWSafe, Texas Law Shield and U.S. Law Shield, Patriot Legal Protection, LLC, Virginia Self-Defense Law, Gun Owners Legal Defense Network and Gun Owners Legal Defense, to name but a few.

Participants in pre-paid legal service plans are provided legal services to defend against prosecution following self-defense. Most of these plans only cover attorney’s fees and not expert or investigation fees, which can run into several thousand dollars alone. You will have to come up with the money to pay out of pocket for investigators, expert witnesses and similar components of your court fight, with no reimbursement even after an acquittal. (I believe CCWSafe is the lone exception, so we will go into further detail below.)

For me, the most troubling aspect of pre-paid legal plans is that you probably will not have the choice of the attorney who is going to represent you. If I were on trial for my life, I certainly would want to pick my own attorney! The plans indicate they will assign an attorney for you. Before buying in, ask if you get to meet with the attorney beforehand, and do you have the right to reject the assigned attorney and ask for another?

Pre-paid legal plans purporting to provide nationwide coverage obviously do not operate their own law firm in each state. Instead, they will have to hire an attorney on your behalf in the state in which the case is being tried. They will need to pay that attorney’s agreed upon hourly rate. Does the nationwide legal provider look for the best deal they can find? This worries me because I would not want the low bid attorney representing me.

CCWSafe makes this claim on their website: “If our members are involved in a use of deadly force self-defense incident we provide the best defense attorneys in the U.S., expert witnesses, and investigators specially trained in use of force lawsuits and investigations. No limits or caps and no optional memberships or additional fees.” This promise, if it can be fulfilled, is good, but it raises serious concerns. First, I want to know the specifics of how they will accomplish their offer. Have they identified and contracted with the best defense attorney in every state in the union?

Before relying on the promise that I will be defended by the “best,” I would want to know the company’s financial capability to actually pay the money for the “best” defense attorney in my state. The best attorneys are very expensive and routinely require a $50,000 to $100,000 retainer just to get started. Can CCWSafe pay these expenses? How do they guarantee this to their customers? What will happen if two or three of their clients have cases requiring this level of financial involvement?

To me, claiming to provide “the best” smacks of puffery, and while puffery in advertising IS legal, it’s also a red flag warning the potential customer to investigate the claims and those who make them.

In my opinion, only two types of pre-paid legal service plans make any sense: the local plans providing legal representation through a local law firm so that you know the name, knowledge and experience of your attorney, as exemplified by the Texas Law Shield (https://www.texaslawshield.com) and a new plan in Virginia, started by former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, called Virginia Self Defense Law. (http://www.vaselfdefenselaw.com/about/).
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Old 01-29-2015, 6:45 AM
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Default Page2=by Marty Hayes, J.D. President Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc.

Both firms, while not covering the expenses of investigators or experts, state that they will pay all your attorney fees. Assuming that you are comfortable with the attorneys they have assigned to the case, that is a pretty good deal. There is only one sticking point: What happens if a participant in a state-specific pre-paid legal scheme is out of state when forced to act in self defense? Do they receive any help or are they just left hanging in the wind?

There is one, final question to ask: Will your pre-paid legal plan also cover attorney’s fees for an appeal, if you are convicted? Appeals are not customarily covered in pre-paid legal plans. The exception is CCWSafe, although one must drill down into their website verbiage to make this determination.

Companies offering pre-paid legal services include:
Second Defense Alliance–https://myseconddefensealliance.com/
CCWSafe–http://ccwsafe.com/
Gun Owners Legal Defense Network–http://gunownersldn.com/
Gun Owners Legal Defense–http://gunownerlegaldefense.com/
National Association for Legal Gun Defense–http://selfdefensefund.com
Patriot Legal Protection (formerly CHLPP)–https://patriotlegalprotection.com/
Texas Law Shield–https://www.texaslawshield.com/
VA Self Defense Law–http://www.vaselfdefenselaw.com/
U.S. Law Shield–https://www.uslawshield.com/

What’s Covered?
Whether you like the insurance model, the pre-paid legal plans, or a membership benefits provider, you should ask one last question. Be sure what ever plan you sign on to covers ALL ACTS OF SELF DEFENSE, not just shooting someone. Most companies limit their coverage to shootings only. That exempts the majority of self-defense acts. Reviewing the eleven incidents in which the members of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. have defended themselves, only one involved one person shooting another. Before relying on anyone to protect your rights after self defense, read both the fine print and read between the lines.

How the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. operates

In comparing post-incident support plans, I have raised many questions about services and performance. Potential members really should ask these questions before joining. Thus, it is only fair that I address these subjects openly and with candor in this article. In addition, we always welcome phone calls or e-mails so we can answer any other question you might have.

How solvent is the Network?

We have never operated in the red and have never incurred debt. Instead, we started the Network conservatively and always maintained a positive bank balance, with no liabilities. Since starting at zero in 2008, we have built up our Legal Defense Fund (at the time of this update, Jan., 2, 2015) to over $450,000.

The Network’s leadership deposits 25% of all dues into a separate account, our Legal Defense Fund, which we reserve exclusively for the legal defense of Network members. We also receive contributions to build up the Fund, and of course, 100% of these donations go into the Fund so it continues to increase, despite drawing from it several times per year to pay attorney fees for a member. Knowing how vital the Legal Defense Fund is to fulfilling our obligations to Network members, we are always happy to answer questions from our members or prospective members about the Legal Defense Fund.

How does a member of the Network receive financial assistance after a self-defense incident?

It all starts with a phone call, telling us that you have been involved in an incident and need immediate assistance. Since we do not at that time know the particulars of the incident, on your word alone and upon request from you or your attorney we will forward up to $10,000 to the attorney of your choice to start your legal representation. If you don’t yet have an attorney, we will get to work immediately and help you find one.

Please understand that the attorney’s fee deposit money is not yours. It is still the Network’s and we expect any unused portion to be repaid to the Legal Defense Fund. The reason we immediately pay a retainer is to make sure our members are represented by a good, competent attorney as early as possible and throughout their interactions with the criminal justice system.

If charged with a crime and additional money is needed to pay the costs for your legal defense, then the Network will look at the facts of the case as provided to us by your attorney. We view these facts in a light most favorable to the member, of course, and if there is a reasonable self-defense component to the incident, then we will grant additional money to fund that member’s legal defense. That amount of money is subject to the attorney’s estimate of the cost of the legal defense because each case is different, and, of course, funding is predicated upon how much money we have in the Legal Defense Fund.

How much will you pay for a legal defense?

The Network commits to disburse up to half the Legal Defense Fund at any given time for the legal defense of any member charged with a crime after a legitimate act of self defense. Thus, the answer to that question is conditioned entirely upon the size of the Legal Defense Fund. Since the fund is now over $450,000, we could conceivably pay up to $225,000 to your attorney for your legal defense. This is higher than any insurance reimbursement that I know of, and of course, we will pay for your attorney up front.

Will you pay for experts, investigators and jury consultants?

There are no restrictions on whom your attorney can hire to assist your legal defense, and so, yes, if needed, the money can be spent on the above.

Do you assign me an attorney, and if so, whom?

One of the best parts of membership in the Network is that you get to hire your own legal team. You have complete control over your defense. We would not want it any other way. Still, a surprising number of armed citizens do not know attorneys they trust to represent them after self defense, so the Network also has a list of over 370 Network Affiliated Attorneys across the country who are willing to help our members. Additionally, we have identified experienced self-defense attorneys who could do a great job defending a member at trial. If needed, the member could hire one of these experienced heavy-hitters and have them argue the case alongside their local attorney. The bottom line? The member is free to choose whatever attorney they want; he or she doesn’t have to be a Network Affiliated Attorney.

Does the Network have an emergency response plan?

Yes. We call it “Boots on the Ground.” In the event that the member is involved in a self-defense incident, has been arrested and has yet to obtain counsel, the Network will immediately dispatch a representative to your location, if needed, to work with you and your family to obtain legal representation. This is a fail-safe plan, and while I or another Network representative have not yet had to travel to a member's location, we stand ready to do so. In several situations, however, I have made the connection between members and Network Affiliated Attorneys by telephone. The “Boots on the Ground” emergency contact number is my personal cell phone number. You call it and I will answer, or if I am not immediately available, I will call back as soon as I get the message. This number is on the back of all Network membership cards. It is for use during non-office hours; if your need arises between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. (Pacific time zone), you should call the Network office at 360-978-5200.

Will you work cooperatively with other companies?

Having an insurance policy or a pre-paid legal plan does not affect the member benefits and support we extend. If you have a pre-paid legal program, while your attorney fees will be covered by the pre-paid legal plan, we can provide money for experts, consultants, and other costs of putting on a vigorous defense.

We make one request of members: if we give you a grant to pay for criminal defense and upon acquittal an insurance company reimburses you the money we granted for your defense, then we expect that money to be returned to the Legal Defense Fund. We want it available to defend the next member facing charges. Any award of money to help pay for your legal defense will be conditioned upon being paid back from any insurance settlements.

I hope I never need to go to court! What other benefits come with Network?

First and foremost, we believe the Network’s educational component is second to none. We send all new members a comprehensive 235-page book and eight educational DVDs bearing on the many facets of use of deadly force in self defense. These DVDs serve two important purposes. First, the Network is strongest when each member understands his or her rights and responsibilities before using deadly force in self defense.

Secondly, the tangible DVD disks comprise a real, permanent part of your training history, documented so that if you need to prove in court that you understood a particular concept, the DVDs can be introduced into evidence for that purpose. Listening to a podcast, or watching a presentation on the Internet is fine, but it is hard to document and is not replicable in court.

The Network also distributes a monthly online journal focused on legal issues for self defense. It includes interviews with leading trainers, a regular column to which Network Affiliated Attorneys contribute, thought-provoking commentary by Network leadership and more. In addition to the web page version, a PDF format is also provided should the member wish to print, initial and file away any part of it to document their studies.

Closing Thoughts
The Network was formed and developed by self-defense legal experts who know and understand what exactly are the issues in self-defense legal cases. We are not a group of attorneys wanting to cash in on the growing number of armed citizens, nor are we hyper-marketers who send e-mail after e-mail to prospective members with the intention of scaring them into buying their program, or frivolously enticing them into joining with the offer of free guns and ammo. Instead, the Network is a group of conservative armed citizens, who take armed self defense with all its responsibilities very seriously. This we will continue to do so as long as we are in business.

NOTE: If the reader is one of our competitors, and you feel that I have made any mistakes in comparing your program to ours, please feel free to e-mail me and explain your concerns. I have worked hard to be fair and honest in this article, and if I have made a mistake, I will cheerfully correct it. Additionally, I did not intentionally leave any company out of this comparison, so if you are not mentioned here, it is because I was unaware of your company. If you want to be listed in one of the categories, as are the other companies, please contact me and I will add you to my evaluation.

We posted this document originally on August 15, 2014 and will update it periodically, showing the revision dates here.
Revised 12/8/2014 to add reference of new member education book recently added to member education package.
Revised 1/2/2015 to update Legal Defense Fund balance.
Revised 1/14/2015 to update number of member-involved self-defense incidents, Network membership and numbers of Network Affiliated Attorneys.
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Old 01-29-2015, 7:00 AM
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Default Gun Attorneys from network in Orange County

Jason Davis Attorney, 866-545-Guns, www.calgunlawyers.com
DAVIS AND ASSOCIATES
27201 Puerta Real, Suite 300
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
jason@calgunlawyers.com
T: 949.436.GUNS [4867]
F: 949.288.6894

David Malmen Attorney, 562-216-4444, www.michellawyers.com
MICHEL & ASSOCIATES
Long Beach California
aka NRA Attorney
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:28 PM
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11/04/2014 - Initial interview
11/10/2014 - Residency check
11/24/2014 - Conditional approval
11/26/2014 - Live scan submitted
12/08/2014 - Training scheduled for 12/21/2014
??????????? - Final approval - was told 12 weeks from submission of live scan
Just got my final approval and appointment to pick up my permit on 2/12/2015
about 90 days from beginning to end.
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:21 AM
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I have two questions. For the residency check, for those of us that work wouldn't this be a problem? I don't talk to my neighbors, I doubt they even know what I look like. If they stop by while I'm at work and no body is home, how do they check I live there? Other problem I am running in to is that all the bills are in a room mates name. I can have that changed, but do I need a full three months worth of bills, or just two different bills one time? Or can I only have the signed and notarized lease agreement saying I live there?
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Old 02-05-2015, 9:19 AM
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I have two questions. For the residency check, for those of us that work wouldn't this be a problem? I don't talk to my neighbors, I doubt they even know what I look like. If they stop by while I'm at work and no body is home, how do they check I live there? Other problem I am running in to is that all the bills are in a room mates name. I can have that changed, but do I need a full three months worth of bills, or just two different bills one time? Or can I only have the signed and notarized lease agreement saying I live there?
They usually show up on the weekend (at least that what happened for me and my friend). I'm not sure they even talk to your neighbors. All they did is verify that the picture they had of me matches. You will need proof of residence for your initial interview. Yo can call them ask what will qualify. They are very helpful. Good luck.
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Old 02-05-2015, 9:55 AM
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OcRider is right!

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Old 02-05-2015, 11:14 AM
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CA-CCW: February 16th & 17th (Mon. & Tues.) 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM

Orange County’s Premiere Range is now partnering with Orange County’s Premiere Instructor- TJ Johnston! This course is approved by the Orange County Sheriff Department. This is the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home, the top course in the nation. This 16-hour class includes classroom & range qualifications as required by the OC Sheriff to obtain your concealed carry permit. Enjoy the convenience of having both the classroom and shooting portions of this class at one location.

Instructor: TJ Johnston of AllSafe Defense Systems
NRA Master Training Counselor
Member of the NRA Board of Directors
Certified Firearms Instructor since 1986

Equipment Needed: A centerfire handgun, an approved strong-side hip holster, a minimum of 2 magazines (or 3 speedloaders for revolvers) and a minimum of 200 rounds per day. Shooters must wear a concealment garment that covers their handgun and magazines. You should bring a tactical flashlight for the low light shooting stage. Each additional gun added to your permit will require 70 rounds per firearm.

Cost: $200 (15% ammo discount if you purchase FT3 ammo for the class)

*CA-CCW Course of Fire Only: February 16th (Mon.) 1:00 PM – 5:00 PM & February 17th (Tues.) 8:00 AM- 12:00 PM
Added by popular demand- this shooting event is set up for previous AllSafe CCW students only who want to come back to participate in the live fire portion of the CCW class.

Cost: $100* (15% ammo discount applies for FT3 TACTICAL ammo)

* Call FT3 TACTICAL or stop by the range to have your name added to the standby list. Spots will be filled on a first come first served basis. We will not take payment until your spot is confirmed. (714) 677-2841

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  #238  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:16 AM
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CA-CCW Course of Fire Only: February 16th (Mon.) 1:00 PM – 5:00 PM & February 17th (Tues.) 8:00 AM- 12:00 PM
Added by popular demand- this shooting event is set up for previous AllSafe CCW students only who want to come back to participate in the live fire portion of the CCW class.

Cost: $100* (15% ammo discount applies for FT3 TACTICAL ammo)

* Call FT3 TACTICAL or stop by the range to have your name added to the standby list. Spots will be filled on a first come first served basis. We will not take payment until your spot is confirmed. (714) 677-2841

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  #239  
Old 02-10-2015, 8:44 AM
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Default 2 GREAT ARTICLES TO READ, RELEASED 9FEB2015

Killing in Self Defense IS Homicide

http://www.secondcalldefense.org/sel...49bde-95408413

How to know if you carry "enough gun" to face any threat

http://www.secondcalldefense.org/sel...49bde-95408413

Articles by:
Greg Ellifritz is the full time firearms and defensive tactics training officer for a central Ohio police department. He holds instructor or master instructor certifications in more than 75 different weapon systems, defensive tactics programs and police specialty areas. Greg has a master's degree in Public Policy and Management and is an instructor for both the Ohio Peace Officer's Training Academy and the Tactical Defense Institute
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:43 PM
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Just got my final approval and appointment to pick up my permit on 2/12/2015
about 90 days from beginning to end.
Picked up my licence today. I was there no more than 10 minutes. Painless. I can now carry
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