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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 66 7.91%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 559 67.03%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 18 2.16%
I paid too much for my Membership! 39 4.68%
They will go out of business this year! 21 2.52%
Don't want anything to do with them! 131 15.71%
Voters: 834. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2041  
Old 03-25-2014, 7:43 PM
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do the 4 day rifle! its sure to be a hoot. 2 day was good enough for me, but im thinking since I learned I could survive the 4 day handgun I may be able to survive the 4 day rifle. yikes!
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  #2042  
Old 03-25-2014, 8:20 PM
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The ID Course mantra is "faster support hand!".
Then without telling us, they mess around with the times, shaving a few tenths from each target presentation.
(1.6 instead of 1.8, 1.8 instead of 2.0, etc...)
Maybe it's psychological, but even though the targets are facing for less time, it actually seems like they're facing for more time.
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  #2043  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:03 PM
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From the FS First Family Forum:

Today (03-24-2014), at about 0830, was the construction kickoff parade. While hundreds of students lined the entire length of the sidewalk, cheering & clapping, all of the heavy construction equipment rumbled slowly, single file, through the parking lot. While the dozers, scrapers, compactors, water trucks, back hoes, dirt haulers, etc. paraded through the parking lot, the little drone chopper buzzed merrily back & forth filming the whole affair.

Today (03-25-2014) was the ground breaking ceremony. Upon entering in the morning the student vehicles were directed to park at the east end of the precision rifle range (R-3). Then the students gathered, facing north, at the middle of R-3 and on the north edge. All the construction heavy equipment was parked, facing south, behind the students. Then the Front Sight CFO (I overheard someone say that he was the CFO), flanked by senior staff, dug up a shovel full of dirt, using a shovel whose handle had been replaced by an AR15 with muzzle end pointing toward the shovel blade. A waving red flag signaled the students to start cheering & clapping. Then the bulldozers, scrapers, etc. cranked up their engines and pulled away. Two little drone choppers buzzed around filming the whole event as did a guy in a construction lift positioned about 50 yards, or so, in front of the crowd. After the ceremony, all the students returned to their vehicles and then on to their respective ranges to start the day's training.
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  #2044  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhorse2010 View Post
The ID Course mantra is "faster support hand!".
Then without telling us, they mess around with the times, shaving a few tenths from each target presentation.
(1.6 instead of 1.8, 1.8 instead of 2.0, etc...)
Maybe it's psychological, but even though the targets are facing for less time, it actually seems like they're facing for more time.
Hmmm, is this only for ID course or also for the general skills test? Could it be that there are too many students who DG'ed? When my wife took a HGSB class in January, 8 students out of 36 got DG

Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Today (03-25-2014) was the ground breaking ceremony. Upon entering in the morning the student vehicles were directed to park at the east end of the precision rifle range (R-3). Then the students gathered, facing north, at the middle of R-3 and on the north edge. All the construction heavy equipment was parked, facing south, behind the students. Then the Front Sight CFO (I overheard someone say that he was the CFO), flanked by senior staff, dug up a shovel full of dirt, using a shovel whose handle had been replaced by an AR15 with muzzle end pointing toward the shovel blade. A waving red flag signaled the students to start cheering & clapping. Then the bulldozers, scrapers, etc. cranked up their engines and pulled away. Two little drone choppers buzzed around filming the whole event as did a guy in a construction lift positioned about 50 yards, or so, in front of the crowd. After the ceremony, all the students returned to their vehicles and then on to their respective ranges to start the day's training.
Wow, FS is really going ahead with their plan to build a hotel, huh? I wish them well. If anything, I'd like to see them make money since I'd hate to see them close.

Like the others said, the downside is that the canyons will be closed for classes. For me, those used to be the highlight of rifle classes. Wonder why they do not just build a berm between the canyons and the new development?
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  #2045  
Old 03-26-2014, 5:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Hmmm, is this only for ID course or also for the general skills test? Could it be that there are too many students who DG'ed? When my wife took a HGSB class in January, 8 students out of 36 got DG



Wow, FS is really going ahead with their plan to build a hotel, huh? I wish them well. If anything, I'd like to see them make money since I'd hate to see them close.

Like the others said, the downside is that the canyons will be closed for classes. For me, those used to be the highlight of rifle classes. Wonder why they do not just build a berm between the canyons and the new development?
It's only during the Instructor Development course. They use the regular test times during the multiple Skills Tests.
Practicing with reduced times makes the actual test times seem like an eternity.
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  #2046  
Old 03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
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Depending on the instructor and how well the class is doing they'll speed up the times towards the end of day 3 for 4ddhg classes. Just to emphasize how fast your support hand needs to be to get off two good shots within that timeframe.
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  #2047  
Old 03-26-2014, 1:10 PM
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Hi,
Just wanted to pass along a FREE android app for dry practice that uses the par times in the FS 4DHG skills test. Didn't notice this latter fact when I initially downloaded it several weeks before my class.

http://drypractice.net/app/

Simple app that seems to work very well, and has built in par times for each of the shot and malfunction drills. Used this before class, at night during class. This time pressure was a great help. Now I take it to the range with me to continue time-based drills.
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  #2048  
Old 03-27-2014, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNShoot View Post
Hi,
Just wanted to pass along a FREE android app for dry practice that uses the par times in the FS 4DHG skills test. Didn't notice this latter fact when I initially downloaded it several weeks before my class.

http://drypractice.net/app/

Simple app that seems to work very well, and has built in par times for each of the shot and malfunction drills. Used this before class, at night during class. This time pressure was a great help. Now I take it to the range with me to continue time-based drills.
Just saw this for the iPhone. I don't know why, but I couldn't find it in the past. I saw the $99.99 (gulp!) official FS app.

Now that I have an idea of the timing involved, this is going to be part of my dry practice!

AND-I can actually hear the beeps! The other one I downloaded, the beeps were too high and I couldn't hear it...I know, I'm an old guy that used to stand in front of a raging amp and a drummer with drumsticks from Thor!

Thanks!!!
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  #2049  
Old 03-28-2014, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNShoot View Post
Hi,
Just wanted to pass along a FREE android app for dry practice that uses the par times in the FS 4DHG skills test. Didn't notice this latter fact when I initially downloaded it several weeks before my class.

http://drypractice.net/app/

Simple app that seems to work very well, and has built in par times for each of the shot and malfunction drills. Used this before class, at night during class. This time pressure was a great help. Now I take it to the range with me to continue time-based drills.
I've been using is for a few months now. It works great and I recommend it to everyone I talk to.
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  #2050  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:37 AM
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There is a $2-$3 iPhone app with the dry practice drill times on it. That worked well for me last night at the range. I have to tell you - range time has a whole different flavor after coming back from Front Sight!

I'm going to plan on going back for the November 25-26 Handgun Skill Builder. Hopefully I can practice and get fast all summer, and kill that skills test. I think we'll stay for Thanksgiving and then do the 2 day Rifle on November 27-28 - sounds like ShotLady may join me, along with maybe my dad.

WHOO HOOO!
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  #2051  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:55 PM
XDJYo XDJYo is offline
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So, who here has signed up for the hotel supplement? I am kinda sorta considering it. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

I mean, they ARE starting construction on the hotel right? Or just expanding the ranges? It will be at the Nevada site right?

Be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable to do it myself.


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  #2052  
Old 03-29-2014, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
So, who here has signed up for the hotel supplement? I am kinda sorta considering it. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

I mean, they ARE starting construction on the hotel right? Or just expanding the ranges? It will be at the Nevada site right?

Be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable to do it myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While I have the hotel offer, how many were sold? If and when the construction on the hotel is done, how many rooms will be available versus the amount on hand? Supply and demand.
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  #2053  
Old 03-29-2014, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
While I have the hotel offer, how many were sold? If and when the construction on the hotel is done, how many rooms will be available versus the amount on hand? Supply and demand.
exactly, and if I have the hotel supplement and I bring 1-3 "standard members" to sleep in a double queen room, do I get the whole room for free, or do the guests have to pay to share the room with me? What else would I be charged for even though my room was "free"?

similar questions if using RV supplement. If 4 guys attend FS and one guy has the RV supplement, do everyone get to stay in the RV for free, or is Iggy gonna want to charge for the rest of the party to stay in the RV? Is it gonna be, you can park for free, but hookups are separate?

These are the kinds of things that many people I know expect Iggy to do if/when the hotel and RV spots actually come on line.
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Last edited by ke6guj; 03-29-2014 at 1:48 PM..
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  #2054  
Old 03-29-2014, 3:21 PM
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Can we request specific instructors? If yes, who should I ask for?
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  #2055  
Old 03-29-2014, 4:12 PM
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guj,
If you read "into" the /H offer, one of the perks is a certificate for an additional hotel room "(so they donít have to stay in your room)". As I read that, it appears that your room is for you and who ever else you choose.
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  #2056  
Old 03-29-2014, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
So, who here has signed up for the hotel supplement? I am kinda sorta considering it. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

I mean, they ARE starting construction on the hotel right? Or just expanding the ranges? It will be at the Nevada site right?

Be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable to do it myself.


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XDJYo,
It is Nevada anyways......... $450 gamble. I like the payoff of this one.
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  #2057  
Old 03-29-2014, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
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Can we request specific instructors? If yes, who should I ask for?
No, not unless you get the ultra exclusive "private/celebrity package".

But if you could, you should ask for me.
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  #2058  
Old 03-29-2014, 7:29 PM
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Keep drinking the cool-aide.ji I will keep my money, memberships and certificates. I can only imagine hearing, "sorry there are no (free option) rooms available we are full do you want to try another date." Just think of all the people that bought full-price memberships when I only paid pennies on the dollar for my ambassador. Don't trust the guy at all.
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  #2059  
Old 03-29-2014, 10:58 PM
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I think that option of trading in your unassigned memberships no longer exists. Somebody please tell me I'm wrong.
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  #2060  
Old 03-30-2014, 7:16 AM
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Hmmm...Sounds like I will pass on it. That will be $450 closer to a reloading machine for me. Besides, it will probably take years and years for it to be finished. If I had the money to blow, I might go for it.

The extra certificates and the hotel room made the deal quite appealing.

Happy shooting and be safe!!!
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  #2061  
Old 03-30-2014, 8:30 AM
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Quote:
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I think that option of trading in your unassigned memberships no longer exists. Somebody please tell me I'm wrong.
It is still available. There is also a $298 Hotel option with less perks.
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  #2062  
Old 03-30-2014, 8:49 AM
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Iggy isn't going to start building a hotel with his own fleet of clapped out dirt moving equipment. A real site work contractor will be required to do the work - we'll know that the hotel is on the horizon when real contractors show up. I think for now there is just berm building going on...
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  #2063  
Old 03-30-2014, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelciocc View Post
Iggy isn't going to start building a hotel with his own fleet of clapped out dirt moving equipment. A real site work contractor will be required to do the work - we'll know that the hotel is on the horizon when real contractors show up. I think for now there is just berm building going on...

Oh. Kinda confused since the whole ceremony video etc made it seem like there was progress being made towards building the hotel vs expanding the ranges etc. oh well.


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  #2064  
Old 03-30-2014, 10:51 AM
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I understand the new ranges are needed first, so that the space where the old ranges are located can be repurposed for the hotel and other new facilities. So the hotel will be ready in...


+ + ... etc...
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  #2065  
Old 03-30-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Hmmm...Sounds like I will pass on it. That will be $450 closer to a reloading machine for me. Besides, it will probably take years and years for it to be finished. If I had the money to blow, I might go for it.

The extra certificates and the hotel room made the deal quite appealing.

Happy shooting and be safe!!!
I'm still waiting on my 4 weeks of a two bedroom timeshare, comming up on about 8 years! Hotel / timeshare / rv park / club house / ??? What will be the next project??? At what point do you man up, and issue some concrete timelines? THAT is why people don't trust Front Sight RESORTS, it always seems like there is some sort of excuse, and people loose patience, or view it as something dishonest. I have friends who have the original early memberships with housing lots, you know they have been waiying a long time!

Its a good place to train, good value for the money, I only hope that it actually pans out one day, but until it actually does, their will always be this air of something dishonest going on (look what happened when the rules went fron D to DG for advanced courses, transfer fees, now having to pay to rent weapons for UZI or Select Fire M-16).
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  #2066  
Old 03-30-2014, 12:46 PM
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I am soooooooo glad I no longer get ANY phone calls or emails. It's good to be left in the dark. Just train and be ignorant of the propoganda.
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  #2067  
Old 03-30-2014, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk556 View Post
Can we request specific instructors? If yes, who should I ask for?
Generally discouraged unless doing private or semi-private training. Curriculum is designed to be consistent across instructors.
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  #2068  
Old 03-30-2014, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelciocc View Post
Iggy isn't going to start building a hotel with his own fleet of clapped out dirt moving equipment. A real site work contractor will be required to do the work - we'll know that the hotel is on the horizon when real contractors show up. I think for now there is just berm building going on...
That equipment was all for show. My friend was up there last week and one of the instructors told him that they were there to clean up one of the back ranges - as they normally do.
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  #2069  
Old 03-30-2014, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNShoot View Post
I understand the new ranges are needed first, so that the space where the old ranges are located can be repurposed for the hotel and other new facilities. So the hotel will be ready in...


+ + ... etc...
Think about it. They are not going to allow any shooting that close to a place were people stay. Sounds like a desperate man trying to raise (i mean make) some money.
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  #2070  
Old 03-30-2014, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMeyer View Post
I am soooooooo glad I no longer get ANY phone calls or emails. It's good to be left in the dark. Just train and be ignorant of the propoganda.
that's what I do, I stay out of all BS.
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  #2071  
Old 03-30-2014, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
I'm still waiting on my 4 weeks of a two bedroom timeshare, comming up on about 8 years! Hotel / timeshare / rv park / club house / ??? What will be the next project??? At what point do you man up, and issue some concrete timelines? THAT is why people don't trust Front Sight RESORTS, it always seems like there is some sort of excuse, and people loose patience, or view it as something dishonest. I have friends who have the original early memberships with housing lots, you know they have been waiying a long time!
I myself think this hotel plan is still a far-off plan, if it ever comes to fruition. Carefully read Front Sight's own development plan here. I quote, "Phase Three of development includes: Front Sight Master Planned Community. Gated community of 177 one-acre, luxury home sites, 350 condominiums...." The home sites seems to correspond to the one-acre home sites he promised to Platinum members who paid $200,000* back in 2001 (click for source). But that was 13 years ago and he has not even completed Phase One yet. I am guessing the condos may be the timeshare he promised you, LCU1670

Note that a hotel is not anywhere in the master plan. Is it possibly going to be in Phase Four that was not been mentioned in the webpage above? Unless he's made major changes to the plan.

One may argue the condos may be the hotel component he's promised, but sounds like he has sold the timeshares to people like LCU1670. Of course, if he didn't have as many timeshare buyers, he may have a rooms or condos to rent to hotel supplement buyers. But remember this is in Phase Three and he has yet to start Phase One.

If you were to build a hotel, would you build it in a residential area, or would you build it next to your "Gourmet restaurant overlooking desert vistas and lake"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi-Surfer View Post
That equipment was all for show. My friend was up there last week and one of the instructors told him that they were there to clean up one of the back ranges - as they normally do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelciocc View Post
Iggy isn't going to start building a hotel with his own fleet of clapped out dirt moving equipment. A real site work contractor will be required to do the work - we'll know that the hotel is on the horizon when real contractors show up. I think for now there is just berm building going on...
I am afraid you two guys may be right.

Even if Naish intends to fulfill his promises, based on his previous track record, I think thirteen plus years is a bit long for me to wait. So, I'll pass on his hotel offer.


Footnote:
$200,000 in 2001 is worth $267,872.41 today. Almost enough money to buy this 2860 sq ft home in Pahrump
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Footnote:
$200,000 in 2001 is worth $267,872.41 today. Almost enough money to buy this 2860 sq ft home in Pahrump
We looked at the model homes in Mountain Falls. New homes starting at $140K

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Old 03-31-2014, 7:20 AM
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I myself think this hotel plan is still a far-off plan, if it ever comes to fruition. Carefully read Front Sight's own development plan here. I quote, "Phase Three of development includes: Front Sight Master Planned Community. Gated community of 177 one-acre, luxury home sites, 350 condominiums...." The home sites seems to correspond to the one-acre home sites he promised to Platinum members who paid $200,000* back in 2001 (click for source). But that was 13 years ago and he has not even completed Phase One yet. I am guessing the condos may be the timeshare he promised you, LCU1670

Note that a hotel is not anywhere in the master plan. Is it possibly going to be in Phase Four that was not been mentioned in the webpage above? Unless he's made major changes to the plan.

One may argue the condos may be the hotel component he's promised, but sounds like he has sold the timeshares to people like LCU1670. Of course, if he didn't have as many timeshare buyers, he may have a rooms or condos to rent to hotel supplement buyers. But remember this is in Phase Three and he has yet to start Phase One.

If you were to build a hotel, would you build it in a residential area, or would you build it next to your "Gourmet restaurant overlooking desert vistas and lake"?






I am afraid you two guys may be right.

Even if Naish intends to fulfill his promises, based on his previous track record, I think thirteen plus years is a bit long for me to wait. So, I'll pass on his hotel offer.


Footnote:
$200,000 in 2001 is worth $267,872.41 today. Almost enough money to buy this 2860 sq ft home in Pahrump
Good synopsis, wasn't those proposed PHASES written up years ago BEFORE he filed for bankruptcy when the land owners sued and took FS to court, and Front Sight was then renamed Front Sight Resorts? Meaning, that building plan was never updated, just like the pictures and table in the classroom???

Side note, not only did I get 4 weeks of a two bedroom timeshare BUT, ALL MONEYS SPENT would be credited to me TOWARDS the PURCHASE of any FS property, such as a CONDO. AND unlimited RV space use. ADD my new free hotel rooms I now have, I guess I could: live at FS (condo), vacation at FS (timeshare), RV at FS (get back to nature), and hotel it up at FS (party and train). Why would I ever leave?
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Old 03-31-2014, 5:14 PM
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We looked at the model homes in Mountain Falls. New homes starting at $140K
That is a nice housing development. Makes a lot more sense to own these. But for me, I'll need all my money for my own mortgage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
Good synopsis, wasn't those proposed PHASES written up years ago BEFORE he filed for bankruptcy when the land owners sued and took FS to court, and Front Sight was then renamed Front Sight Resorts? Meaning, that building plan was never updated, just like the pictures and table in the classroom???
Yes, like the picture of the 1990's Mustang on a skidpad/track in the banner, right? What was that all about, evasive/defensive driving school?
See the second picture from the left in the bottom row?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
Side note, not only did I get 4 weeks of a two bedroom timeshare BUT, ALL MONEYS SPENT would be credited to me TOWARDS the PURCHASE of any FS property, such as a CONDO. AND unlimited RV space use. ADD my new free hotel rooms I now have, I guess I could: live at FS (condo), vacation at FS (timeshare), RV at FS (get back to nature), and hotel it up at FS (party and train). Why would I ever leave?
Wow, that is too good to be true. It's like: Here, buy my rifle for $1000. And, I will give you a $1000 credit towards buying some of my handguns. And then, you have unlimited use of my ammo! No wonder he is called The Billionaire Patriot LOL

Seriously though, I sincerely hope Naish finds a good honest way to make money with FS, so that the school will continue to exist. It has provided a lot of firearms enthusiasts an affordable training to a solid foundation.
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Old 03-31-2014, 5:45 PM
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Wow. A lot of comments on this. Sorry to derail the thread!

And now, back to your regularly scheduled program...
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  #2076  
Old 03-31-2014, 6:35 PM
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No wonder he is called The Billionaire Patriot LOL
I think he's the only person calling him that : )
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Old 04-01-2014, 8:39 AM
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Pahrump got some snow overnight.
About 1/4" in some spots.
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Old 04-01-2014, 2:39 PM
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Hell froze over? Gotta mean construction on the hotel has started.
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Old 04-01-2014, 2:55 PM
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Hell froze over? Gotta mean construction on the hotel has started.
Starting and Finishing are very different and can be separated by many, many . . . last special offers . . .
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Old 04-01-2014, 6:08 PM
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Hell froze over? Gotta mean construction on the hotel has started.
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