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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2017, 7:34 AM
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Default Orange County: apparently new LEO disclosure terms?

I am in the process of applying for modification of my CCW license that I've had for over 3 years now.

I notice there are new processes, information and forms indicated on their new application/renewal/modification site:

https://ocsd.permitium.com/ccw/appli...ittype=address

The site seems a lot more comprehensive and clear about the rules, which is very nice. It takes you step by step through the various regulations and asking you to agree before continuing to the next step.

I did notice something new related to the requirement to disclose your CCW Permit to LEO.

Previously, it was quite clear that the CCW Permit must be disclosed to LEO's upon ANY OFFICIAL CONTACT, if you are carrying.

Now it seems the language referring to this has changed, instead stating, under the Terms and Conditions:

"10. failure to show license to any peace officer upon demand,"

Throughout the entire application process which indicated plenty of restriction information, I did not see any reference to having to disclose the permit upon any official contact, like it was before. The only reference I have seen is to disclose upon Demand, which is very different.

Am I missing something?
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Old 12-07-2017, 7:50 AM
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Your reference is from the terms of agreement 8.10 Way up at the top item #2 on the list says:

If contacted by a law enforcement officer for any reason, license holder shall immediately inform the officer that they are a CCW licensee and provide their CCW license as proof that they are carrying a concealed weapon.
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:12 AM
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Originally Posted by psssniper View Post
Your reference is from the terms of agreement 8.10 Way up at the top item #2 on the list says:

If contacted by a law enforcement officer for any reason, license holder shall immediately inform the officer that they are a CCW licensee and provide their CCW license as proof that they are carrying a concealed weapon.
Aha, I did miss that, and it's still on there for sure -- thanks for the clarification.
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:12 AM
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I would, however, recommend that you verbally notify them, then ask how to proceed before reaching for your license.
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:20 AM
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I would, however, recommend that you verbally notify them, then ask how to proceed before reaching for your license.
Respectfully, and from someone with police training, i disagree.

During a traffic stop, nerves are on edge. One of the things emphasized is saying something, “gun”, “weapon”, “10-32”, etc. as soon as you see one, so your partner knows what you see. So they are very in tune with any indication of a firearm.

My plan, and i didnt invent it but i agree with it, is to had the officer my driver license and my permit, together, and tell him, “i need you to look at both of those”. That way he isnt seeing a gun or holster as a first impression, and he isnt hearing someone say anything meaning “gun” at a traffic stop.

Kind of a reptile brain thoery based approach.

YMMV
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:56 AM
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Nothing has changed.
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Markinsac View Post
I would, however, recommend that you verbally notify them, then ask how to proceed before reaching for your license.
It's probably best to have the Documents ready before he approaches.

Hand it to him and say "Here is my Driver's License and another important document I'm required to show you."

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Old 12-07-2017, 11:54 AM
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How about start with, "good morning (or afternoon) officer." I get the attention to detail and appreciate the intent of just handing documents and not saying "OH I have a loaded gun right here." It does mean something to be nice and polite. That is all I'm saying.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:18 PM
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During a traffic stop, I'm not rushing up to the window...I'm observing the occupants first and foremost. If I see a occupant reaching for or scrambling around for something, DL or CCW I'm going to sit there and wait until I think it's safe to approach.

BY ALL MEAN....a respectful greeting is the first think you say, then notify the LEO of your credentials. You don't have to say "I am carrying a gun". Common sense prevails people. If your CCW lic. isn't with your DL, which it should be close IMO, simply tell the LEO that you have a CCW license and it's located "______" (WITH YOUR HAND FIRMLY ON YOUR STEERING WHEEL) let he/she dictate your next moves. He/she will likely say "thank you for informing me, please don't reach for your weapon or get it out". DONE!!! Pretty simple.
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Old 12-07-2017, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
How about start with, "good morning (or afternoon) officer." I get the attention to detail and appreciate the intent of just handing documents and not saying "OH I have a loaded gun right here." It does mean something to be nice and polite. That is all I'm saying.
Well, if anyone wrote that the first thing was to fling licenses, I missed it. I think we are all talking about the specific part of the stop, not the entirety of the stop.

At least I am. I always say hi as an ice breaker.
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Old 12-07-2017, 3:30 PM
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I was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign. When asked for license, ins, and reg, also provided my CCW permit. Hands we also on the steering wheel. I put my CCW permit on the top of everything. I did not verbally tell him that I was carrying. He looked at it, asked me where the firearm was located. He asked me to keep my hands on the steering wheel for our safety. He thanks me and walks back to his car. He comes back and thanks me again for letting him know about my CCW and let's me off with a warning.

I've never gotten off with a warning for any tickets but I think being a CCW holder and not acting like an idiot helped me out.
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Old 12-07-2017, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by khiemp View Post
I was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign. When asked for license, ins, and reg, also provided my CCW permit. Hands we also on the steering wheel. I put my CCW permit on the top of everything. I did not verbally tell him that I was carrying. He looked at it, asked me where the firearm was located. He asked me to keep my hands on the steering wheel for our safety. He thanks me and walks back to his car. He comes back and thanks me again for letting him know about my CCW and let's me off with a warning.

I've never gotten off with a warning for any tickets but I think being a CCW holder and not acting like an idiot helped me out.
For a real scientific answer, I need you to do it differently next time.

Next time, crack the window less than 1/2. Inch and scream over and over “am I being detained?!?!?!”

Then ask for a supervisor by telling him, “you need to call a supervisor”

Finishing move will be the statement thst he is bound by “your” laws, but as a free inhabitant, you are not.

If you can, keep the phone video going at least until he pepper sprays you.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2017, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
For a real scientific answer, I need you to do it differently next time.

Next time, crack the window less than 1/2. Inch and scream over and over “am I being detained?!?!?!”

Then ask for a supervisor by telling him, “you need to call a supervisor”

Finishing move will be the statement thst he is bound by “your” laws, but as a free inhabitant, you are not.

If you can, keep the phone video going at least until he pepper sprays you.
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Old 12-07-2017, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khiemp View Post
I was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign. When asked for license, ins, and reg, also provided my CCW permit. Hands we also on the steering wheel. I put my CCW permit on the top of everything. I did not verbally tell him that I was carrying. He looked at it, asked me where the firearm was located. He asked me to keep my hands on the steering wheel for our safety. He thanks me and walks back to his car. He comes back and thanks me again for letting him know about my CCW and let's me off with a warning.
Thats literally exactly what happened to me about 2 weeks ago.
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Old 12-07-2017, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
How about start with, "good morning (or afternoon) officer." I get the attention to detail and appreciate the intent of just handing documents and not saying "OH I have a loaded gun right here." It does mean something to be nice and polite. That is all I'm saying.
That should go without saying... what do you think we are here, a bunch a millenials?

I have never seen a California millenial initiate a Good Morning.
.

Last edited by caliberetta; 12-07-2017 at 7:17 PM..
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:17 AM
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I saw this today. Now you must contact OCSD after each law enforcement contact.

http://www.ocsd.org/about/info/servi..._holders_guide
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:49 AM
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I saw this today. Now you must contact OCSD after each law enforcement contact.

http://www.ocsd.org/about/info/servi..._holders_guide
That's really new - thanks for posting. I will start a new thread on this.
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Old 12-13-2017, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
For a real scientific answer, I need you to do it differently next time.

Next time, crack the window less than 1/2. Inch and scream over and over “am I being detained?!?!?!”

Then ask for a supervisor by telling him, “you need to call a supervisor”

Finishing move will be the statement thst he is bound by “your” laws, but as a free inhabitant, you are not.

If you can, keep the phone video going at least until he pepper sprays you.
Don't forget to say, "I pay your salary", and maybe make a donut joke to lighten the mood.
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Old 12-13-2017, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markinsac View Post
I would, however, recommend that you verbally notify them, then ask how to proceed before reaching for your license.
While each situation is different, as a CCW Instructor, I recommend against verbally informing if possible. If you have to verbally inform, some ways are better than others. I'm sure your CCW instructor covered the better ways to verbally inform as well as some things not to do or say when the situation calls for verbally informing.
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Old 12-16-2017, 8:16 AM
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there is NO state law mandating you notify (unless officer demands). Any jurisdiction mandating otherwise is making sh&% up.
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Old 12-16-2017, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rjgallardo View Post
there is NO state law mandating you notify (unless officer demands). Any jurisdiction mandating otherwise is making sh&% up.

No one is saying there’s a state requirement. IA’s can choose to add the requirement if they want.
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