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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:01 PM
wannabefree wannabefree is offline
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Default New York ccw law faces legal challange

Saw this article
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/0...gal-challenge/
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:54 PM
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If this gets into a federal court Im thinking its a win!
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2018, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
If this gets into a federal court Im thinking its a win!
Love the positive attitude. Go team!
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2018, 1:09 PM
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They will refuse to hear this case or any other 2A cases till Trump puts another pro 2A guy on the bench. Ruth---- You hear the bell toll yet?
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2018, 1:41 PM
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A challenge has been filed in New Jersey as well:
http://patriotgunnews.com/2018/02/06...ional-gun-law/
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2018, 6:56 PM
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Nice! Hope the good guys wins but I'll admit I am gonna be pissed if New Yorkers get to carry but CA still F's a great deal of us
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Old 02-06-2018, 7:17 PM
R Dale R Dale is offline
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The NRA and all pro gun groups need to join together and keep a ongoing lawsuit in all anti gun states until the SCOTUS has to weigh in.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
The NRA and all pro gun groups need to join together and keep a ongoing lawsuit in all anti gun states until the SCOTUS has to weigh in.
The NRA has been MIA in New Yorkistan. New York gun owners have noticed and many don't have much faith in the organization anymore.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
If this gets into a federal court Im thinking its a win!
Can I assume you are being sarcastic? Or just very very optimistic? So far, NY Federal Courts have not been friendly to 2A rights, and are far more likely to follow the Ninth Circuit's lead in Peruta that there is no right to carry a concealed firearm. Since the Supreme court turned down Peruta, absent some change in the composition of the court by the time this case reaches it in a few years, there is a limited probability that they will accept another case raising the same issue, notwithstanding that the D.C. opinion creates a circuit split.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:10 PM
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Should be interesting NY and NJ could use a win on ccw...
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Old 02-07-2018, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip_Dog View Post
They will refuse to hear this case or any other 2A cases till Trump puts another pro 2A guy on the bench. Ruth---- You hear the bell toll yet?
Which of the current conservative-leaning justices do you think is currently a problem for a 2A case?
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2018, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HectorEscaton View Post
Which of the current conservative-leaning justices do you think is currently a problem for a 2A case?
Roberts and Kennedy are questionable.
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Old 02-07-2018, 5:34 PM
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I kind of think because of the DC ruling, SCOTUS actually cannot refuse the next case.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2018, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CalAlumnus View Post
Roberts and Kennedy are questionable.
So how many conservatives will it take on SCOTUS to be sure?

SCOTUS ruling on gun rights is starting to feel a lot like the abortion shell game. If the dog actually catches the car, the politicians won't be able to sell this argument to single issue voters anymore.
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:14 AM
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Something not mentioned is that the restrictions on a NY carry license are administrative only and completely arbitrary. My county offers the following pistol licenses: Full Carry, Retired PO Full Carry, Employment, Hunting, Target, Sportsperson. As well as several premise license options.

You can apply for as many as you like and the issuing judge decides which restrictions, if any, apply to you. Mr. Nash has a valid carry license. As long as he carries where legal he is not breaking any laws.

If a police officer were to discover Mr. Nash carrying outside of the printed restrictions, he will not be arrested (for that offense). There is a possibility that the officer notifies the issuing judge, they get upset, and the license is revoked.

This would result in Mr. Nash being forced to surrender all of his handguns. In NY, a carry (or premise) license is required to own a handgun. He would effectively lose his 2A rights without breaking any laws or being arrested.

I believe that this is where NY gun laws are most vulnerable. NY is may issue, however a permit is required to KEEP a handgun, not just to bear. Heller is quite clear with respect to keeping arms. Unfortunately, this is not what is being challenged.
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Old 02-08-2018, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
I kind of think because of the DC ruling, SCOTUS actually cannot refuse the next case.
Well, they can refuse it, although this now qualifies as a clear split and is their main criteria for granting a case.

However, there are other issues in which SCOTUS refuses and there's a clear circuit split.
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2018, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HectorEscaton View Post
So how many conservatives will it take on SCOTUS to be sure?

SCOTUS ruling on gun rights is starting to feel a lot like the abortion shell game. If the dog actually catches the car, the politicians won't be able to sell this argument to single issue voters anymore.
I tend to think if Trump replaces anyone except Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch, it'll be GO TIME...........
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Old 02-08-2018, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
If this gets into a federal court Im thinking its a win!
Not until and unless it gets to SCOTUS.
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Old 02-09-2018, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckprax View Post
This would result in Mr. Nash being forced to surrender all of his handguns. In NY, a carry (or premise) license is required to own a handgun. He would effectively lose his 2A rights without breaking any laws or being arrested.
According to the NYSP SAFE act enforcement guidelines, if a permit holder has his pistol permit revoked, he/she has to surrender ALL if his/her firearms. Long guns included. Nobody is exactly sure where the SAFE act says this, but it is spelled out clearly in the guidelines for the New York State police.

This turns a pistol permit that can be arbitrarily granted or revoked by a judge without due process into a big liability for gun owners. As far as I know nobody has had this happen to them yet, but gun owners who have been paying attention are a bit concerned about it. The SAFE Act and everything associated with it is in flagrant violation of the constitution.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2018, 6:49 AM
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TrappedinCalifornia TrappedinCalifornia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARFAB View Post
Nobody is exactly sure where the SAFE act says this, but it is spelled out clearly in the guidelines for the New York State police.
According to the Guide to The New York Safe Act for The New York State Police, page 12...

If a licensee at any time becomes ineligible to hold a license, the license is considered to be revoked under an amendment to PL 400.00 (11). In such case, the person is required to surrender his or her license to the appropriate licensing official and any and all firearms, rifles or shotguns owned or possessed by the person must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency.

By scrolling down, you can read PL 400.00 (11) here...

New York State Penal Law, Part 4, Title W
ARTICLE 400
LICENSING AND OTHER PROVISIONS RELATING TO FIREARMS

But, the applicable part states...

(c) In any instance in which a person's license is suspended or
revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of this subdivision, such person
shall surrender such license to the appropriate licensing official and
any and all firearms, rifles, or shotguns owned or possessed by such
person shall be surrendered to an appropriate law enforcement agency as
provided in subparagraph (f) of paragraph one of subdivision a of
section 265.20 of this chapter. In the event such license, firearm,
shotgun, or rifle is not surrendered, such items shall be removed and
declared a nuisance and any police officer or peace officer acting
pursuant to his or her special duties is authorized to remove any and
all such weapons.


Hope that helps.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 02-09-2018 at 7:28 AM.. Reason: Fixed omission for clarity
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  #21  
Old 02-09-2018, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Hope that helps.
It helps in a totally enraging and infuriating way. Seems like the law could be struck down on a legal challenge to this provision alone.

I hate this state. I keep asking myself why I live here.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
I tend to think if Trump replaces anyone except Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch, it'll be GO TIME...........
My own view is that they'll never let the dog catch the car, because then there won't be anything left to fundraise on. Same as how they'll never over turn Roe v. Wade.
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Old 02-13-2018, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip_Dog View Post
They will refuse to hear this case or any other 2A cases till Trump puts another pro 2A guy on the bench. Ruth---- You hear the bell toll yet?
RBG heard the bell toll years ago, her handlers have just been pulling a record setting "weekend at bernie's" performance.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2018, 7:37 AM
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The Supreme's are out of the gun ruling biz. They won't even clarify past rulings like Heller. You still can't get a handgun in NYC.

Like pot and immigration, gun rights are a state by state issue. The Feds are OK with this.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
The Supreme's are out of the gun ruling biz. They won't even clarify past rulings like Heller. You still can't get a handgun in NYC.

Like pot and immigration, gun rights are a state by state issue. The Feds are OK with this.
While you cannot argue that SCOTUS has been quite lazy w.r.t. the 2A, however, McDonald indicates that the Feds were not OK with it.
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