Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-12-2018, 8:17 PM
ysr_racer's Avatar
ysr_racer ysr_racer is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewhere lost in the O.C.
Posts: 6,420
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default Can I legally buy a shotgun in Florida if I'm a California resident?

I was in Florida for a few days, and saw a shotgun I wanted to buy. Can I legally just buy it, or does it have to go thru a CA FFL?
__________________
Brad G.
So Cal USA
Check out my Sporting Clays page, CLICK HERE!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-12-2018, 8:20 PM
cyclopes85 cyclopes85 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 198
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Why not?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-12-2018, 8:29 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 4,367
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You can buy it you just can't take delivery of it in Florida. Federal law requires all laws of the buyer's state to be followed, so for us in Ca that means ship to Ca FFL 10 day wait dealer transfer fee and all the rest.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-12-2018, 9:05 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 37,446
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
You can buy it you just can't take delivery of it in Florida. Federal law requires all laws of the buyer's state to be followed, so for us in Ca that means ship to Ca FFL 10 day wait dealer transfer fee and all the rest.
Right.

If you lived in Real America, and your state of residence did not require using your-state-licensed FFLs, you could do it.

California, however, no.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-13-2018, 3:56 AM
ysr_racer's Avatar
ysr_racer ysr_racer is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewhere lost in the O.C.
Posts: 6,420
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Thanks guys
__________________
Brad G.
So Cal USA
Check out my Sporting Clays page, CLICK HERE!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-13-2018, 6:45 AM
bruss01's Avatar
bruss01 bruss01 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,519
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

"I've got a mansion, forget the price,
Ain't never been there, they tell me it's nice..."

You can buy it (exchange money for right of ownership) anywhere.

You can only acquire it (take physical possession) through an FFL in your state of residence if your state requires that, and CA certainly does.
__________________
The one thing worse than defeat is surrender.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-13-2018, 1:52 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

YSR, Just a thoughtk but look into taking possession in Florida but having it first imported into CA by having the FL seller send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery to you in CA. If that can't be done, give the dealer a hefty deposit (the sales price) and borrow it from the dealer until you are ready to return to CA. Then buy it and have the dealer send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-13-2018, 2:59 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 4,367
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
YSR, Just a thoughtk but look into taking possession in Florida but having it first imported into CA by having the FL seller send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery to you in CA. If that can't be done, give the dealer a hefty deposit (the sales price) and borrow it from the dealer until you are ready to return to CA. Then buy it and have the dealer send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery.
I can't imagine the issues the FFL would face if a firearm was logged into his bound book, but not on the premise and no 4473 to document a sale existed. Whole lot of risk involved in that idea.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-13-2018, 5:02 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What about completing the sale and doing the 4473, and later having the gun shipped to the CA FFL before returning to the state?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-13-2018, 7:51 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 4,367
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
What about completing the sale and doing the 4473, and later having the gun shipped to the CA FFL before returning to the state?
So what part of him taking possession in Florida violates federal law for the FFL dealer are you not understanding? Remember this is how to do it legally and properly, not what can I get away with.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-13-2018, 11:37 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Please enlighten me as to what "Federal" law is violated by delivery of a long gun to the CA resident in FL?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-13-2018, 11:49 PM
Michael777 Michael777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 914
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Itís Florida man. Do wtf you want
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:11 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 37,446
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Please enlighten me as to what "Federal" law is violated by delivery of a long gun to the CA resident in FL?
18 USC 922 (b)(3)
Quote:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) ...;
(2) ...;
(3) any firearm to any person

who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe

does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Not possible for a CA resident to "fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States" unless he/she uses a CA-licensed FFL.

18 USC 922 (a)(5) covers non-dealers
Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ... who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides;
ETA - I wrote this sticky - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 - in 2011. Catch up, please.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 02-14-2018 at 12:18 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:15 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 37,446
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
Itís Florida man. Do wtf you want
Only if you like the risk of Federal prison for 5 years, or $10K fine, or both, as well as permanent loss of gun rights.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-14-2018, 7:49 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks, Librarian. These were sporting guns (specifically skeet guns) that the FL dealer would loan/rent to vetted prospective purchasers for as long as a month.

Quote:
this paragraph . . .(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Not that I look at the statute, I agree that the FL FFL could not sell and deliver to one who is known or the dealer has reasonable cause to know they are not a resident of FL. I may have been thinking about the person with another home in FL who that dealer would not reasonably believe to be a resident of another state, were they to have a FL DL. However, they may loan/rent it and upon conclusion of the loan/rental then sell it as long as it is then shipped by that dealer to the CA FLL for DROS and delivery.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-25-2018, 10:02 AM
Revhendo's Avatar
Revhendo Revhendo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 383
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So, if you're out of state, decide to go skeet shooting with friends and find a shotgun you like, you can't purchase it, compete with it, then send it to your FFL? I'm assuming the same applies to picking up, say a levergun, to go hunting?
__________________
Rev.

Maybe nails just drive themselves into the wood.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:02 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 23,065
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revhendo View Post
So, if you're out of state, decide to go skeet shooting with friends and find a shotgun you like, you can't purchase it, compete with it, then send it to your FFL? I'm assuming the same applies to picking up, say a levergun, to go hunting?
Under Federal laws... [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]

You (CA resident) can purchase it, but the seller will need to ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

However, someone can loan/rent you a firearm for temporary sporting purpose use in that State.
After the loan/rent, you could then buy it and the seller would then ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

You (CA resident) can't take possession of it while out-of-state, unless it's due to a bequeath [18 USC 922(a)(5)(A)] or it's due to a loan/rental for temporary sporting use [18 USC 922(a)(5)(B)].
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.Ē - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 02-25-2018 at 11:05 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:44 PM
Revhendo's Avatar
Revhendo Revhendo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 383
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Under Federal laws... [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]

You (CA resident) can purchase it, but the seller will need to ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

However, someone can loan/rent you a firearm for temporary sporting purpose use in that State.
After the loan/rent, you could then buy it and the seller would then ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

You (CA resident) can't take possession of it while out-of-state, unless it's due to a bequeath [18 USC 922(a)(5)(A)] or it's due to a loan/rental for temporary sporting use [18 USC 922(a)(5)(B)].
With the complete understanding that I am not trying to get around anything, and maybe I've been beat up by confusing California laws too much, but,
My son in law could buy a Winchester 94 in New Mexico, loan it to me to go hunting and then sell it to me to send to an FFL and we're all cool? Technically that is what I'm getting out of this, but I thought that seemed like a bit of a straw purchase.

And yes, I've been reading stickies and searches till my eyes bleed and think I've over done it.
__________________
Rev.

Maybe nails just drive themselves into the wood.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:49 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 37,446
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revhendo View Post
My son in law could buy a Winchester 94 in New Mexico,

loan it to me to go hunting

and then sell it to me to send to an FFL and we're all cool?

Technically that is what I'm getting out of this, but I thought that seemed like a bit of a straw purchase.
Yes.

He could bring it here, lend it to you to hunt, and both go to a CA FFL,
or
you could go to NM, hunt with it, and then send it to a CA FFL.

In both cases, talk to the CA FFL first, to discover whether they understand the law and whether they will accept a 'walk-in' in the first case, or they want the gun shipped from another (NM) FFL in the second case.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:52 PM
Revhendo's Avatar
Revhendo Revhendo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 383
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Yes.

He could bring it here, lend it to you to hunt, and both go to a CA FFL,
or
you could go to NM, hunt with it, and then send it to a CA FFL.

In both cases, talk to the CA FFL first, to discover whether they understand the law and whether they will accept a 'walk-in' in the first case, or they want the gun shipped from another (NM) FFL in the second case.
Thank you.
__________________
Rev.

Maybe nails just drive themselves into the wood.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-28-2018, 7:57 PM
Flying Sig's Avatar
Flying Sig Flying Sig is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,113
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Just buy it, bring it home and STFU
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-28-2018, 8:26 PM
OlderThanDirt's Avatar
OlderThanDirt OlderThanDirt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dumbfookistan
Posts: 3,377
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Sig View Post
Just buy it, bring it home and STFU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Only if you like the risk of Federal prison for 5 years, or $10K fine, or both, as well as permanent loss of gun rights.
Because we know the BATFE could never trace the firearm...
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:32 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.