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  #1  
Old 02-12-2018, 3:47 PM
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Default Stealing gas is met by an armed home owner

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/...-stealing-gas/

"Two armed homeowners stopped suspected thieves from trying to steal gas from their truck."

"Legal analyst Steve Meister says you cannot use a gun outside of your home solely to protect property. But it’s unlikely the Gaitans will face legal problems because no one was hurt."

In a neighborhood and they're outside, I'd call the police and try to get a good look at them.

Of course, I live in the mountains at least a quarter mile from a main road. Anyone in my driveway would be met with force.
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Old 02-12-2018, 3:53 PM
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good job. we need more of this to happen.

if anything, one should be able to use lethal force against trespassers / thieves.
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Old 02-12-2018, 3:53 PM
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Many years ago a gas thief was shot and killed in Baldwin Park - no charges. Too bad thieves now have more rights than Joe Citizen.
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Old 02-12-2018, 4:25 PM
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Good for the homeowner....just glad it didn’t escalate out of hand. People just get tired of people taking **** that isn’t theirs. There needs to be harsher punishment for crime. Anyways glad things turned out the way they did. You never know what can happen in that scenario.
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2018, 4:40 PM
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The homeowner is a cousin of a good friend of mine, hes a good shot. Perp is lucky he wasnt armed and dropped him.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2018, 4:58 PM
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can someone explain this to me...

he didn't use lethal force. since when is brandishing a firearm to protect property the use of lethal force?

it should be perfectly legal to brandish a firearm to protect property. if the criminals do anything else other than run or submit, then they are obviously upping the ante since they are not afraid.
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Old 02-12-2018, 5:00 PM
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^^ Brandishing is against the law in Ca.
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Old 02-12-2018, 5:03 PM
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I know that, and so is shooting someone, but brandishing should be a legal means of defense for protection of property whereas shooting someone is not.
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Old 02-12-2018, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Many years ago a gas thief was shot and killed in Baldwin Park - no charges. Too bad thieves now have more rights than Joe Citizen.
Only good thief is a dead thief....
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  #10  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:27 PM
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Dead theives commit 100% less crimes.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

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  #11  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:31 PM
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Harsh language

Or perhaps some affection like a suffocating hug?
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:38 PM
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Brandishing has a specific legal meaning.

While on your own property, Pointing a pistol at someone committing a crime is not exactly what comes to mind when brandishing comes to mind.

You have a right to be there
They do not have a right to be there


Waving a gun in a threatening way to intimidate someone is brandishing.

An accidental exposure of your CCW while grabbing a top shelf grocery is not brandishing.


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Old 02-12-2018, 5:41 PM
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-mEqa0y1NM


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  #14  
Old 02-12-2018, 6:16 PM
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Dead theives commit 100% less crimes.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2018, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
I know that, and so is shooting someone, but brandishing should be a legal means of defense for protection of property whereas shooting someone is not.
Is it brandishing if you are on your own private property?
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  #16  
Old 02-12-2018, 6:26 PM
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If you intend to use a firearm, if necessary, but don’t, it’s called restraint not brandishing.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2018, 9:40 PM
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There is no law in physicaphysically stopping someone from stealing from you. If they assualt you with a disparity of force then you are able tp use the force multiplier.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:00 AM
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In a perfect situation, conceal your weapon, confront the perp, see how it plays out. Criminal's carry guns, this guy was just a bit over the top. Thank god he was in San Bernardino county... This county would never had brought this to the DA!!!
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2018, 5:39 AM
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Under CA laws...

It is legal to carry a loaded firearm in public while attempting to make or make a citizen's arrest. [PC 26050]

It is legal to use force to make a citizen's arrest. [PC 835]
^Deadly force (pointing a firearm) is allowed when attempting to make or make an arrest for a felony in progress.
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  #20  
Old 02-13-2018, 5:55 AM
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Basic summary of what happened...

Motion activated security camera system text'd the home owner when it started recording.

The text alert woke the home owner up.

Home owner checked his security camera feeds and saw suspect holding what appeared to be a handgun (was a drill) that was initially lurking in his driveway and then started pearing into his home's windows.

Home owner retrieved his handgun (Glock 23) from his safe, woke up his wife and told her to call 911, because it looked like an armed suspect was attempting to break into the house.

Home owner confronted the suspect outside of the home.
Suspect dropped what he was carrying as soon as he saw the home owner point handgun at him.
^Suspect dropped his tools and gas can.

Home owner's wife retrieved her own handgun (Springfield Armory XD-9) and went to back up the home owner.

Male suspect ran away on foot, leaving female accomplice in get away vehicle.
^Female accomplice was detained by home owner.

LEOs (San Bernardino County Sheriff Department/Yucaipa Police) responded and took custody of female accomplice and jailed her for attempted burglary [PC 664 of 459].
^Male suspect was later apprehended and jailed for attempted burglary.

LEOs told home owners they did good and no criminal charges for what they did.

Home owner's truck was damaged.
^Fuel tank and side panel had to be replaced due to it being drilled.
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  #21  
Old 02-13-2018, 6:39 AM
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Linehand ....you are making it more complicates then it is.

There is no law that says cower in your house.

Disparity of force can happen even if you "chased" someone, which I never said to do. Don't need castle doctrine either.

Bahhh bahh goes the sheep.
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Old 02-13-2018, 6:45 AM
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You would never bring out deadly force for property crime...I.never said that. When the dirtbag starts to attack you, if he does not flee , is when an appropriate force elevation would begin.

Reading comprehension?
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Old 02-13-2018, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Basic summary of what happened...

Motion activated security camera system text'd the home owner when it started recording.

The text alert woke the home owner up.

Home owner checked his security camera feeds and saw suspect holding what appeared to be a handgun (was a drill) that was initially lurking in his driveway and then started pearing into his home's windows.

Home owner retrieved his handgun (Glock 23) from his safe, woke up his wife and told her to call 911, because it looked like an armed suspect was attempting to break into the house.

Home owner confronted the suspect outside of the home.
Suspect dropped what he was carrying as soon as he saw the home owner point handgun at him.
^Suspect dropped his tools and gas can.

Home owner's wife retrieved her own handgun (Springfield Armory XD-9) and went to back up the home owner.

Male suspect ran away on foot, leaving female accomplice in get away vehicle.
^Female accomplice was detained by home owner.

LEOs (San Bernardino County Sheriff Department/Yucaipa Police) responded and took custody of female accomplice and jailed her for attempted burglary [PC 664 of 459].
^Male suspect was later apprehended and jailed for attempted burglary.

LEOs told home owners they did good and no criminal charges for what they did.

Home owner's truck was damaged.
^Fuel tank and side panel had to be replaced due to it being drilled.
Hum wonder if I can get a transfer to the branch down there lol. Sounds like a nice place to live go S.B. Cops.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2018, 7:14 AM
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Nice !
I could read stories like this All day


Let's review,,,,
He sees someone holding something with a pistol grip just feet from his children s window in the middle of the night.......

Oh He'll Ya...you're going to meet Mr. Springfield .45
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Old 02-13-2018, 7:30 AM
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Not wise. Unfortunately, I've followed cases like this where the D.A. appeared not to charge, then several months later, "After a thorough investigation, they will be charged."
That will cost way more than the gas.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:55 PM
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Putting yourself in a potential situation ??...then don't leave your home or go out in public, there bad folks driving by you daily . If there's someone actively breaking into my property whichcould would be my car I'm not waiting for police to say freeze and put your hands up.

If Dirtbag runs away great he's gone if he approaches me or displays violent agression that's different.

I'm not commenting on the article I'm commenting on protecting my property. I have the legal right to protect my property not with deadly force but if the Dirtbag escalates then that opens other avenues
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Old 02-13-2018, 1:00 PM
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"Initiating a possible attack" hahaha. You sound like Miss Cleo....call me now..gwannnnnn!
https://youtu.be/-ZwLG7yJg1g
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2018, 2:14 PM
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I am not commenting directly on facts from the article. I am commenting on options to protect property during burglary/robbery.

I like the "tactical hatchet" and Combat Cane in your link. Talk about ridiculous: )

Massad Ayoob books are very good about lethal force use. Im not so sure about practical tactical combat hatchets.
Miss Cleo was real....
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2018, 2:19 PM
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Castle doctrine type situation. Is a mans home and property not his castle and when the savages are at the gate. Has he not the right to protect his domain?

In what world is this not correct?
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Old 02-13-2018, 2:54 PM
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Thinking a person needs to steal lots of gas for it to be a crime .

Homeowner acted correctly except for notifying the authorities . IMO
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Old 02-13-2018, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Thinking a person needs to steal lots of gas for it to be a crime .

Homeowner acted correctly except for notifying the authorities . IMO
well criminal also drilled into the car, so that is big damages right there.

the cost to replace the panel, fuel door, and the fuel tank. that is not cheap.
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Old 02-13-2018, 4:56 PM
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I personally would not go outside with a handgun to confront someone stealing gas or my car for that matter in California.

I would however call 911 and have my shotgun at the ready inside the home until LEO arrived in case bad guy decided to step inside.

Call that what you will, things can escalate quickly outside and you don’t know who else, how many, what other bad guys are carrying.

I will protect my family’s life and the inside of my home with the appropriate force if needed. Stuff in the driveway is well insured and just stuff.

Your mileage may vary . . .
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Old 02-13-2018, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One in the pipe View Post
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/...-stealing-gas/

"Two armed homeowners stopped suspected thieves from trying to steal gas from their truck."

"Legal analyst Steve Meister says you cannot use a gun outside of your home solely to protect property. But it’s unlikely the Gaitans will face legal problems because no one was hurt."

In a neighborhood and they're outside, I'd call the police and try to get a good look at them.

Of course, I live in the mountains at least a quarter mile from a main road. Anyone in my driveway would be met with force.
Its not outside the home, the whole lot its his home... this is bull****.
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Old 02-13-2018, 5:17 PM
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Thieves should get a 12ga surprise and backhoe welcome if your a quarter mile from a main road creeping around looking to steal or are trespassing.
Sorry, just the way I feel.
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Old 02-13-2018, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMarquez View Post
Is it brandishing if you are on your own private property?
The ownership of the property you are on makes no difference as to the crime of brandishing. You can commit the crime of brandishing on your own property just as easily as anywhere else.

However, the crime of brandishing specifically exempts cases of self defense (refer to PC 417). Unless otherwise prohibited, a person may possess/carry a firearm while making a lawful arrest (refer to PC 26050)

Discussing only the legalities of the issue, and without going into the wisdom, a person may carry a firearm with them when engaging the gas thief and may point that firearm toward the suspect if threatened in a manner that makes deadly force reasonable (making use of the "self-defense" exception to the brandishing statute).

Now, if we consider what is wise, rather than what is just legal, it's probably best not to even venture down that road.

Private person's arrests very rarely turn out well, and quite a few of them wind up with the "arrestor" going jail. One of this big issues with a private person's arrest is that that all of the authorities to make the arrest, to use force, and to do what would otherwise be "brandishing" of a weapon, are all predicated on a crime actually being committed. If the after-the-fact investigation fails to show the existence of a crime, then the "arrestor" generally goes to jail. The peace officer arrest statues apply a "Reasonable Cause" caveat that protects the officer if a reasonable mistake is made. The only place in statute that a private person get the "Reasonable Cause" benefit is where a felony has actually been committed and there is "Reasonable Cause" as to the identity of the person arrested.

I handled one case, not too different from what was reported here, where a gentleman had parked his new and expensively equipped pickup truck outside his apartment, and close by a foot path that was often used by folks to cut through the block to access a "soup kitchen." In the middle of the night, the alarm went off and the owner armed himself with a baseball and went to investigate. He found an apparently homeless man at the driver's door. The man started to run and the owner chased him down and beat him quite severely with the baseball bat, and then called the Sheriff's Station. Upon arrival, the owner stated "That's him,, that n***** right there, he tried to break into my truck." Paramedics took him to the hospital and we started a crime scene work up. A close exam of the truck showed no evidence of any attempted entry. The victim was a well-known homeless person and a frequent user of the soup kitchen. He was also a regular user of the foot path.

When all was said and done, who do think went to jail?
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Old 02-13-2018, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post

LEOs told home owners they did good and no criminal charges for what they did.

Home owner's truck was damaged.
^Fuel tank and side panel had to be replaced due to it being drilled.

So that's how it's done! I would have never thought of that.

I'm going out on a limb and say they thief has done this before!

I love how they article states "alleged" thief. Just call him for what he is already, a thief!
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Old 02-14-2018, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ Brandishing is against the law in Ca.
I've admitted to brandishing many times to officers while protecting my property both inside and in the front yard. No charges. No arrest. Brandish if you got em.

Don't be a push over.
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Old 02-14-2018, 2:18 AM
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caliberetta caliberetta is offline
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Thanks to Quiet and RickD427 for the thorough and very informative breakdowns.
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Old 02-14-2018, 2:54 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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CM Browning are you in Ca or Montana and thanks ks to Quiet and Rick for clarification.
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Old 02-14-2018, 7:51 AM
SMarquez SMarquez is offline
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
The ownership of the property you are on makes no difference as to the crime of brandishing. You can commit the crime of brandishing on your own property just as easily as anywhere else.

However, the crime of brandishing specifically exempts cases of self defense (refer to PC 417). Unless otherwise prohibited, a person may possess/carry a firearm while making a lawful arrest (refer to PC 26050)

Discussing only the legalities of the issue, and without going into the wisdom, a person may carry a firearm with them when engaging the gas thief and may point that firearm toward the suspect if threatened in a manner that makes deadly force reasonable (making use of the "self-defense" exception to the brandishing statute).

Now, if we consider what is wise, rather than what is just legal, it's probably best not to even venture down that road.

Private person's arrests very rarely turn out well, and quite a few of them wind up with the "arrestor" going jail. One of this big issues with a private person's arrest is that that all of the authorities to make the arrest, to use force, and to do what would otherwise be "brandishing" of a weapon, are all predicated on a crime actually being committed. If the after-the-fact investigation fails to show the existence of a crime, then the "arrestor" generally goes to jail. The peace officer arrest statues apply a "Reasonable Cause" caveat that protects the officer if a reasonable mistake is made. The only place in statute that a private person get the "Reasonable Cause" benefit is where a felony has actually been committed and there is "Reasonable Cause" as to the identity of the person arrested.

I handled one case, not too different from what was reported here, where a gentleman had parked his new and expensively equipped pickup truck outside his apartment, and close by a foot path that was often used by folks to cut through the block to access a "soup kitchen." In the middle of the night, the alarm went off and the owner armed himself with a baseball and went to investigate. He found an apparently homeless man at the driver's door. The man started to run and the owner chased him down and beat him quite severely with the baseball bat, and then called the Sheriff's Station. Upon arrival, the owner stated "That's him,, that n***** right there, he tried to break into my truck." Paramedics took him to the hospital and we started a crime scene work up. A close exam of the truck showed no evidence of any attempted entry. The victim was a well-known homeless person and a frequent user of the soup kitchen. He was also a regular user of the foot path.

When all was said and done, who do think went to jail?
I've thought all these scenarios too and as long as I am in a position of safety, I would not confront someone. A little gas is not worth losing all I have and the rest of my possessions are insured or worthless.

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