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  #1  
Old 08-25-2018, 12:39 PM
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Default Which scope for Ruger PC Carbine 9mm?

Hi Calguns,

I just bought a Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 Red Dot Sight Riflescope, 1x25mm, put it on my newly acquired Ruger PC Carbine 9mm, then suddenly realized that I have astigmatism

Any suggestions on a regular rifle scope? My budget is $150 max, and I don't shoot a 9mm carbine at targets past 150 yrds, mostly 100 yds

Any inputs are appreciated. Thanks Calguns!
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2018, 1:40 PM
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I swapped Burris FF3 for Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4 Pig Plex Scope, basically a modified German #4 reticle. I got it off eBay for $130, scope is in Leapers 1" Low Profile QD Rings for $18 also from eBay.
I like this set up better then RDS.

Last edited by MyOdessa; 08-29-2018 at 6:34 AM..
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2018, 9:58 AM
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VX-Freedom is a nice little scope.

If you can't find a deal on that, also consider Weaver V3 1-3x20. It is a very simple design that Weaver has been making forever and a day.

ILya
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2018, 12:43 PM
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Nikon P-223 3x32I
I use this for 5 years already on my 9mm carbine and one on KELTEC 16ca
Bought them for less then $100 NIB on Ebay.
https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-8496-P-.../dp/B006Z07JTE

BTW, i also have astigmatism, but it does affect my using a red dot on my HG

>>>

Last edited by RandyCat; 08-28-2018 at 12:46 PM..
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2018, 8:24 AM
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I have been using Nikon's M-223 1-4x20 on my JP 9mm Carbine. Huge fun! I plan to switch to Nikon's BLACK FORCE1000 1-4x24 with illuminated reticle very soon. The SPEEDFORCE reticle lets you get on target quickly and accurately with a large field of view of 110 feet at 1x and 100 yards. For under $400 it is worth looking at. I use a P-223 3X carbine scope on one of my .300 BO rifles for close in shots and the reticle is dialed in with Spot On to 200 yards. Great scope and the 32 mm obj gives you a clear and bright sight picture.



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  #6  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:48 PM
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If you don't really care about magnification you could look for a sale on the Vortex spitfire 1x or check out the 1.5-4x Leupold Pig Plex and Nikon 1.5-4 P series... personally anything with a huge eye-piece si kind of hard to mount on the PCC down low. I have Burris RT-6 and the eye-piece is yuge so I have it back pretty far and added many lop spacers. Jury is out on whether I will keep it on there but it is working well and I dig the one-power.

I think the Leupold's look great... $188 or so, but maybe there's a better price. I love leupold.

Here's what that RT-6 looks like and I'll post a PSTII 1-6 with same rings cause the pic is handy and it is more close up to see the eye piece/ocular bell clearance issue. The Leupolds look great and smaller eye-piece


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Old 08-29-2018, 1:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bman940 View Post
For under $400 it is worth looking at.
Here is from OP:" My budget is $150 max", Did you read it?
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 1:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Here's what that RT-6 looks like and I'll post a PSTII 1-6
From OP, :"My budget is $150 max", very valuable comment. Directly answers the OP question.
Why everyone jumps with void advise without reading the question?
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2018, 4:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
From OP, :"My budget is $150 max", very valuable comment. Directly answers the OP question.
Why everyone jumps with void advise without reading the question?
Reading comprehension. Imagination. The big picture. I was recommending cheaper scopes that had a smaller occular bell. I was not recommending those in my pics. I was pointing out the issue with mounting a scope at correct height and not having the eye piece hit the receiver.

Also, many times people look at a thread on a POPULAR FORUM like this and they think the rules dictate you better only solve the OP's problem, nothing more. Guess what? You can do that via PM's. It is a FORUM because other people who want to spend $180 might read this thread too.

Sorry if I broke your rule
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2018, 4:36 PM
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If I had to spend under $150 I'd try a Bushnell 1-4 with cheap low rings and try to find a balance with height and lop.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bushnell-AR...IAAOSwroFbfeRE

I'd find one selling for $140 like this with the "make an offer" and offer $125.

Still better to grab a Leupold even if you have to spend $180... IMHO. Sorry about not listening. I'm a jerk.
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2018, 4:44 PM
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Primary arms has one for $120 or so... the illuminated 1-4 sfp.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Primary-Arm...MAAOSwbw1aKCkS

But I'd still buy the Leupold for $180, ignoring your original post. Comparing the Bushnell to the PA, I'd probably go with the PA because I have the 1-6 and it is good. The Bushnell AR series is an unknown to me, but people seem to like it.

Honestly though. I'd spend more just to trigger people who make rules.

Not knowing how strict your budget is, I'd say also look at Nightforce. The NightForce ATACR 1-8x24 looks pretty cool.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I was pointing out the issue with mounting a scope at correct height and not having the eye piece hit the receiver.
Sure, OP asked EXACTLY about it... or maybe not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Also, many times people look at a thread on a POPULAR FORUM like this and they think the rules dictate you better only solve the OP's problem, nothing more.
There are no rules, there are self preservation, not to look an idiot answering questions which were never asked,
Why didn't you suggest him to by Ford and not Toyota? Just because he did not ask about it, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Honestly though. I'd spend more just to trigger people who make rules.
Sure, people carry about your spending, the more you spend the less night sleep they get. Now i know why i sleep so well. and now why, because i lost somewhere the log of your purchases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Not knowing how strict your budget is, I'd say also look at Nightforce. The NightForce ATACR 1-8x24 looks pretty cool.
Another one answering OP question directly.
1. You would know exactly what his budget is if you, instead of showing everyone what an expert you are, would just read the OP.
2. Sure, for 100 yard shooting with pistol caliber you definitely need $2.8K scope.


Holllyyyy mollyyy

Last edited by RandyCat; 08-30-2018 at 10:55 AM..
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2018, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
Why didn't you suggest him to by Ford and not Toyota? Just because he did not ask about it, right?
Holllyyyy mollyyy
Have you ever been on a forum before? Anytime someone asks which Glock to buy, someone will recommend a 1911. AND sometimes the OP says "Thanks, I bought a 1911 !!". Sometimes other people reading the posts who may not even post a comment get something from the information shared. It is not a one-on-one therapy session or a contest to see who can stick to the parameters. Most often there is nothing new under the sun and the questions asked could have been searched for - obviously there are brand new options each year, but in general I think it is true.

If someone comes in helpless and asking for decisions to be made for them it almost begs a few sarcastic answers. Also if a poster get triggered and backholehurt over the internet, it kind of begs for triggering sarcasm IMHO. Here's to your internet reputation, hahahah.

If you want to act triggered, that's fine with me, man. It is all entertainment for me. You can call me names or whatever you wanna do. I think you are silly.

OP, check out that Nightforce. I think you will love it.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2018, 11:10 AM
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OP, I am sure you knew I was kidding about the Nightforce. Next time I promise to stick to the parameters and only answer your question. I'm sorry that I suggested spending $30 more on the Leupold. Also, I apologize to Mr. Cat for not acting right and introducing "scope creep", heheh.

In all seriousness, OP. My suggestions of the PA 1-4 for $120 and the Bushnell 1-4 @ $140 that are under your budget are superior choices to Mr. Cat's suggestion of that 3x Nikon P. IMHO.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2018, 9:10 PM
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Maybe yes, but the advantages of nikon it has hash marks. With 9mm ballistics if you shoot past 50 yards is very important(not as for 223)
PA1-4 does not have them, Bushnell 1-4 might be a good choice but i do not have experience with them, hence cannot make any suggestions,

I guess you compared Nikon with bushnell of those particular models side by side if you make such statements, right?

I, on my carbine have a printout of every hash mark with verified distances up to 200 yards. No guesswork, just estimate the distance, put the corresponding mark on the ear of a pig and squeeze the trigger.


BTW, i'm really sorry, i did not read your post #13, i suspected it is some BS, so i skipped it. If it is not, let me know, i might consider reading it.

...

Last edited by RandyCat; 08-30-2018 at 9:16 PM..
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2018, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
Maybe yes, but the advantages of nikon it has hash marks. With 9mm ballistics if you shoot past 50 yards is very important(not as for 223)
I, on my carbine have a printout of every hash mark with verified distances up to 200 yards. No guesswork, just estimate the distance, put the corresponding mark on the ear of a pig and squeeze the trigger.

...
I have many Vortex BDC, Leupolds, Mildots and a couple of those P series P-223 scopes... I have a 3-7x32 300 Blk scope and the 3-9x40 .223 BDC600. They work and the online calc is cool just like the Vortex counterparts. I find the Nikon dots a bit large. For the $$ The SWFA reticles are great. The PA ACSS is great too. My buddy has the 3x P series and it is OK. Id rather try a 1-4 for that money. I have a Weaver Kaspa that I like more than his 3x Nikon. $150 is tough because you go up just bit and you get much better glass IMHO.
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Old 08-30-2018, 9:52 PM
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Amazon has both the PA for $119 and the Bushnell for $141
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2018, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
Maybe yes, but the advantages of nikon it has hash marks. With 9mm ballistics if you shoot past 50 yards is very important(not as for 223)
PA1-4 does not have them
How is anyone with a 9mm carbine going to hit anything if they have a red dot on the thing with no hash marks?! I think 99% of people with these new Ruger PCC have RDS. I guess they aiin't hitting squat because the 9mm drops like a turd ? Or are they shooting 50 yards max. The few guys that have glass and hash marks must be shooting 300 yards thanks to an internet calculator and printed cheat sheets? Hahah.

I have a RDS on one and the RT-6 with hash marks on the other. I guess I am covered if I take my 9mm sniper rifle out to the 1000 yard range.
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Old 08-31-2018, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
Oh and one more disadvantage of the Bushnell 1-4, it has open Target Turrets which is in my experience is very bad for hunting.
Very often you will miss only to find out that while walking etc, you unintentionally turned the turret Rubbed on cloth or something) and changed the "0", so, open Target Turrets is a big No-NO for me since i use my tools for hunting only.

I guess OP also mentioned hunting, didn't he?

...
Sounds like you might be talking out your other end. Yeah I realize you edited that out, but you are stretching to eliminate the Bushnell and realized your Nikon 3x has target turrets too. Are you sure you have actually used one of those Nikon's? I have. Sounds like you ruled out your own scopes for your purposes. Maybe offer to sell one of those P223 3x32 to the OP for $75 ? Since they won't work for you.
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Old 08-31-2018, 7:41 AM
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I have thousands of rounds under my P-223 3X Carbine scope. I do wish it had capped turrets since I have never adjusted my 3X in the field. I do always take a glance to make sure they are on zero before pulling the trigger though. My son and I have used this scope in Carbine competitions and it was worked great, yes, who needs magnification for a target at 25 and 50 yards but for my older eyes, once the targets get beyond 50 I'll take whatever I can get. We have had targets to 200 yards and I ran the table using this scope. My son and I have also taken many hogs using this scope, quick on target and wide fov make it a keeper. As you can see mine has been through a lot.

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Old 08-31-2018, 10:59 AM
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I have thousands of rounds under my P-223 3X Carbine scope. I do wish it had capped turrets since I have never adjusted my 3X in the field. I do always take a glance to make sure they are on zero before pulling the trigger though.
Definitely. My buddy has his on an AR too, I think with the same mounts. Nothing wrong with a low mag fixed power. I shot an AR for ten years with a fixed 4x with capped windage, but target (BDC turret) on top and never bumped it or worried about it, but it was marked for yardage and it was right on at 100, 200, 300. The old Mil style AR irons could easily be dialed in to hit out to 600 too. You do not need hash marks.

I like those Nikon BDC, but I do prefer the fine lines or hash marks of a Vortex style or dead drop, or SWFA Mil-Rad to a hollow dot like my two Nikon P (P-223, P-300). For the price they are really clear. The 3x32 has a few fat dashes (Carbine BDC), the 3-9 has fat outlined dot, dash, dot... and so does the 2-7... and a circle in the center on the P-300. I dunno why the P reticles bug me, but they work.

For my scoped PCC I did not want to be stuck at any magnification so a 1x variable was what I wanted to try (I just use 1x or 6x like most people), but I might very likely go to a red dot just like on my other one. I'd use a tube style micro like the new Nikon Super Dot or a Vortex Crossfire RD-1. The Nikon SPUR that is on the other one now seems good so far. Good looking RDS, but I do wish the included low mount was Weaver compatible like every other brand. If it was I could have put it on a shotgun and a .22 pistol where it would not fit.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:43 PM
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Check out Nikon's BLACK FORCE1000 1-4x28. Illuminated reticle and my son's go to hog gun. Great in low light with 10 illumination settings so you don't wash out your target. Very clear and sub $400.

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Old 08-31-2018, 1:31 PM
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Oh man, dig that mount too.
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Old 08-31-2018, 1:37 PM
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Nikon's BLACK Series mount. Nikon just ended a promo where they gave away a free mount with purchase of BLACK FX1000 scope. Heck, saving you $139. Looks good and works great!
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Old 09-15-2018, 7:53 AM
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Weaver V-3 1-3X20 Riflescope worth a look at $156 at amazon.
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2018, 8:53 AM
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The new P-Series "P-Tactical"/P-223, P308, P-300, etc... look pretty good. The new reticle is cool (MK1)... The 3-9x40 MK1-MRAD is about $200 and the old ones with BDC600 are going for close to $100 some places... $139 at Cabela's.

https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...ref=prd1330873

Also new M-series starting around $200.

https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...ref=prd2852259

Last edited by crufflers; 09-25-2018 at 8:56 AM..
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Old 09-25-2018, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyCat View Post
Bushnell 1-4 might be a good choice but i do not have experience with them, hence cannot make any suggestions,
I have two 1-4 Bushnells, a basic SFP 1-4 and the nicer FFP 1-4 with markings, illuminated dot, and the throwdown lever, so I will throw my 2 cents in.

The Good:
- Great glass for the price
- Functional controls, good clicks
- Clear markings
- Good eye relief
- Adequately robust (though I haven't abused them)

The Bad:
- They are heavy, much heavier than I expected
- Red dot washes out in almost all light
- Throwdown lever works well enough, but I don't find myself being in tacti-cool enough situations to use it

If you are going do to bench shooting or target shooting, the basic 1-4 would fit the bill for a PCC. I got mine under $100 when they were doing rebates.
If you are going to run drills with it, I would not recommend them because of the "heft" alone.

With the rising popularity of the 9mm carbine, I'm sure the big optics companies will eventually design a scope with proper drop ballistics. Preferably in a small "BugBuster" type package (don't buy low end UTG/Leapers stuff). Though only 50 and 100 yard markings might fit before it drops off the reticle
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:13 AM
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If you have an astigmatism, and don't want to use a big and heavy 1-4 or 3-9 scope, consider a compact prism optic like the new one by Primary Arms:



It has no magnification just like a red dot, which is great for a short range weapon like the PCC. Even if you want to shoot far with it, you could use the ACSS reticle and just figure out what the hash marks mean with 9mm drop.
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Last edited by k1dude; 09-25-2018 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 09-26-2018, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
The new P-Series "P-Tactical"/P-223, P308, P-300, etc... look pretty good. The new reticle is cool (MK1)... The 3-9x40 MK1-MRAD is about $200 and the old ones with BDC600 are going for close to $100 some places... $139 at Cabela's.

https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...ref=prd1330873

Also new M-series starting around $200.

https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...ref=prd2852259
Those are some great prices on very nice scopes. All backed by Nikon's No-Fault Policy too. $200 for a M-Series scope is excellent. I have chatted with a bunch of guys who like the new M-Tactical 1-4x24, 30mm tube with a MOA reticle for under $250. That will be my next purchase for my JP 9mm AR.
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Old 09-26-2018, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bman940 View Post
Those are some great prices on very nice scopes. All backed by Nikon's No-Fault Policy too. $200 for a M-Series scope is excellent. I have chatted with a bunch of guys who like the new M-Tactical 1-4x24, 30mm tube with a MOA reticle for under $250. That will be my next purchase for my JP 9mm AR.
I just scored a M-Tac 1-4x24 30mm with the MOA reticle... $140 from Cabela's but I cheated with rewards and AJ. Plus today is 10% off shipped free day. If I had some 20% off cards I think it woulda been $95.


That's the one I zero'd in on from the new line. Seems like a great time to grab one. I might end up with two Nikons on my PCC's especially if the eye piece is smaller diameter than the RT-6... we will see in a few days.
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Old 09-26-2018, 9:11 AM
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Outstanding deal! I hope you will post some pics and a range report for everyone to read?
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:08 AM
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Outstanding deal! I hope you will post some pics and a range report for everyone to read?
Yeah I'll compare to the Burris RT-6 when I get a chance. The Burris was $185 more. (typically $100 more normal street prices).
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Old 09-29-2018, 1:50 PM
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I got the Nikon M 1-4 so here's some initial observations from unpacking and mounting.

NIKON offers a ton of value at $200 or whatever you can score one for.

Not exactly apples to apples, but the Nikon compares really well to the RT-6 IMHO. Nikon glass is as clear or slightly edges out Burris at 1x and 4x to my eyes. Mounts better on the PCC with the low Warne rings I have to let me remove some stock LOP spacers... does have a smaller ocular bell. Turrets on the NIKON kick butt... seem about 100x better than the Burris and for comparison, considerably better feeling than something like a SWFA SS 10x42 turret. Really good turrets. Obviously there is no illumination, but RT-6 is not day bright anyway IMHO. I like both reticles. The NIKON reticle is way better than the old P-223 dash hollow dot reticle.

Burris turrets are covered, Burris has mag lever, illumination, etc... Burris could be much easier/faster under certain lighting conditions with the horse shoe and illuminated reticle. Burris has the extra 2x (6x) mag. Burris turrets under the covers suck... REALLY SUCK compared to the NIKON's. I actually think one of the Burris turrets is broken already. Good thing Burris warranty is awesome.

Turrets again... the crisp NIKON turrets make the SWFA feel really mushy.

Last edited by crufflers; 09-29-2018 at 1:53 PM..
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  #34  
Old 09-29-2018, 2:22 PM
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Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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I got one of the higher end "IJK" battle optics at the gun show. Probably overkill to put such nice premium glass on a cheapy pistol caliber rifle. But then again, I like push out the distance and wring as much length as possible with that little pea shooter. These "operetors" on the 25 yard line pack there gear and leave the range when I start lobbing those little bullets and ringing steel on my 14"plate at 50-75 yards with it.
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Old 09-29-2018, 3:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I got one of the higher end "IJK" battle optics at the gun show. Probably overkill to put such nice premium glass on a cheapy pistol caliber rifle. But then again, I like push out the distance and wring as much length as possible with that little pea shooter. These "operetors" on the 25 yard line pack there gear and leave the range when I start lobbing those little bullets and ringing steel on my 14"plate at 50-75 yards with it.
Hey if they actually were able to get their rifles sighted in @25 they are pretty advanced for some ranges.

I figure the 1x is close to a RDS and the 4x is plenty for 9mm... maybe even spot the shots at pistol carbine distances and the hash marks make it easier to compensate without touching the turrets if shots are off... after reassembling the take down.

Still testing this thing out with glass though... the NIKON might end up on a AR too. This PCC might end up with a Crossfire RD-1 on it. Having a bunch of stuff on a PCC this heavy does seem like a lot. I shoot the one with a red dot on it more.
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Old 09-29-2018, 3:39 PM
bman940 bman940 is offline
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Default Spot On

Don't forget to utilize Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program for your Nikon scope. Great for holdovers or if you just want to enter a vital zone size you can optimize your zero to a certain distance. Very handy for those who don't want to turn knobs or use holdovers. Check out Spot On, feel free to drop me a note if you have any questions.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:01 AM
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I have the same set up as the bman above great for a carbine, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/58...-reticle-matte

here is another old reliable, these have been on market many years https://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...-reticle-matte
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CZlover View Post
Hi Calguns,

I just bought a Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 Red Dot Sight Riflescope, 1x25mm, put it on my newly acquired Ruger PC Carbine 9mm, then suddenly realized that I have astigmatism

Any suggestions on a regular rifle scope? My budget is $150 max, and I don't shoot a 9mm carbine at targets past 150 yrds, mostly 100 yds

Any inputs are appreciated. Thanks Calguns!
If possible try to save another $150 and get into a fixed 3x or 4x in the $300 range much better glass.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:34 AM
bman940 bman940 is offline
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Default Nikon's new P-Tactical line

You are gonna love the new P-Tactical line from Nikon. No plastic cops, laser etching and still built to withstand whatever you dish out. Hopefully, I'll get my hands on one of the new P-Tactical/M-Tactical scopes soon. A lot of scope for a great price!
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebla View Post
Weaver V-3 1-3X20 Riflescope worth a look at $156 at amazon.

^^^^ Good advice!


I put one of these on my AR and was very impressed at the clarity of the glass and the light weight of the scope. Ended up giving it to my Brother when I bought a Aimpoint PRO and he put it on his 444 Marlin lever-action and loves it on that rifle. https://www.amazon.com/Weaver-V-3-1-.../dp/B0000V2EBM
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