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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#81
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Try this one.
Here are a few C&R long guns...
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Form a Trust and transfer to rifle to the Trust. File for the Form 1 and when it is approved cut the barrel down. You end up with an authentic looking Thompson (with a lame fixed 10 round mag and gold lettering on the receiver). With the fixed 10 round mag and 33 inch overall length it would not be considered an AW in California.
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__________________ "Knowledge is power... For REAL!" - Jack Austin |
#82
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#83
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You are thinking about California's exemptions from Dealer transfers. In that part of the law California requires that a long gun be both C&R and at least 50 years old to be exempt from Dealer transfer requirements in California.
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__________________ "Knowledge is power... For REAL!" - Jack Austin |
#84
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#85
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Where does it say that ATF will not approve any Form 1/4 that would violate CA law?
That statement on ATF letterhead along with the NFA stamp might be enough to demonstrate the legality to the ... uh... concerned LEO? What do you all think about the 50+year and "original configuration" criteria that is all over the ATF website? I think the implied argument is that if ATF will not approve anything that violates CA law, then cutting the barrel off a C&R must not change it's C&R status in ATF's view. It would be nice to have that documented somehow. Last edited by vandal; 01-29-2008 at 12:51 PM.. |
#86
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The regulation stated on the Form 1/4 that requires dissapproval of an app, http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/5822.html Quote:
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Last edited by ke6guj; 01-29-2008 at 12:24 PM.. |
#87
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You're absolutely right, the "original configuration" is not relevant here -- I must have had that idea stuck in my head from other C&R debates.
Rereading the CA PC it just as you have it -- Curio or relics as defined by 478.11, (which just requires manufacture 50+ years ago). Not as defined by ATF's opinion. I still think I will get a letter from Ithaca attesting to the date of manufacture. That, a highlighted printout of 478.11 and the NFA tax stamp should make things clear. |
#88
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I have been thinking more about this and had some new thoughts. I am not nearly as familiar with federal laws as I am with state laws, so someone please verify my understanding of this. Federally speaking, an AOW in “any other weapon” meaning not a long gun and not a hand gun. Most important to what I am thinking, it not being considered a handgun even if it is say a regular handgun with a forward grip. Am I correct in this assumption that the AOW definition supersedes any other handgun definition?
If this is the case, and a otherwise handgun has a forward grip and is registered as an AOW according to all NFA rules, and the forward grip is removed but it still is registered, does it revert back to a hand gun or is it still an AOW? I am talking about if the grip is removable and can be taken off and on easily does the configuration change its status? Now it looks like CA adopts the federal definition of an AOW which if my above assumptions are correct, would mean that a handgun registered/configured as an AOW would not actually legally be a handgun.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#89
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#90
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Fer criminey sakes, somebody do it already!! I still am wanting a serbu Shorty!
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#91
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I'll cut it down myself for now, and maybe send it off to Mark to have him mod it to a super-shorty later on. |
#93
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CA also has Quote:
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#94
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Now we just need a class III dealer in SoCal willing to play ball
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson) |
#96
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One user posted on ar15/com that he had already got approved to cut down an Ithaca 37 into an SBS.
Good luck finding a dealer that will transfer any fun stuff.
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God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#97
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Whoever could that be?
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#98
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I dunno, but I wish someone would post some pics. Seriously, an SBS/SBR/AOW pic thread would probably give some members of the CA DOJ some high blood pressure. Friggin' evil guns...
__________________
God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#99
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Once I get my tax stamp I am tempted to post a "Thanks CalGuns!" pic thread with my fixed-mag AK pistols, Saiga, and chopped Ithacas...
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#100
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nothing has been cut yet, but picture this with a folding stock.
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#103
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Secondly, a registered AOW is a registered AOW in all configurations. It does not matter if the front grip is removed or not. Once it is papered as an NFA weapon, it must be treated as such regardless of what physical changes you make to it. Removing the front grip on an AOW does not make it a Title I firearm. Similarly, if you add a 20" barrel to a registered SBR, you still have an SBR. Last edited by monkey; 02-06-2008 at 11:09 AM.. |
#104
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__________________
07 Class II in the Bay area. Enjoy the silence....... Celebrating our madness for over 50 years. Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom. - George Patton |
#105
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Whipped this up today, should be a handy item. 22/410 with 14 inch barrels.
__________________
07 Class II in the Bay area. Enjoy the silence....... Celebrating our madness for over 50 years. Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom. - George Patton |
#106
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Haven't cut my barrel yet but as you can see this Ithaca 37 with youth/body armor PG stock will be slightly shorter than my (registered) 14.5" M4. Shooting the Ithaca (which lacks a disconnector) is really amazing!
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#107
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It sounds like this C&R AOW thing could really take off. I know that I've been drawn to the shorties of all types for quite a while now, and I'm dying to have an old double-barrel or pump chopped down to nearly nothing. The ithaca's look nice.
Any chance we could keep this thread going for a while and develop a list of everyone's ideas for their personal builds? I know about half of my inspiration comes from fellow calgunners. |
#108
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Just curious.
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God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#109
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That is an AOW.
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Last edited by ke6guj; 02-15-2008 at 2:23 PM.. |
#111
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Nope, its an AOW.
Here's the info direct from the ATF. http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm Quote:
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#112
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Thanks.
I forgot about that part. Personally, I was gonna start looking to do one of these, but I broke my leg, and will be unable to work for a few months. I wanted to go get San Diego CLEO sign off, just to see what would happen. I think the Sheriff would get a little huffy. Maybe he'd change his mind after I inform him about the trust aspect of NFA. Doubt it, though. He's a bit uptight. But, how good would it be if he did? Anyway, thanks for posting up this stuff. I might wander over to the suggestion box and drop a comment about having an NFA Pic thread. I'm sure there are some other folks that have some fun stuff, too. SOTs, LEO's, etc. It would be fun for the drool factor.
__________________
God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#113
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#114
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I think the point of the trust filing for the federal paperwork is that you don't need the CLEO sign off for an AOW or a C&R SBS or SBR.
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#115
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Forgive me, slightly O/T, but it's still kinda funny.
Last night I had a dream that I was visiting some local gun shop and near the other pamphlets about DFG, the OLL situation etc there was another green pamphlet saying right up front: "So you wanna own a pre-86 FA weapon in CA? Now you can!!" Of course, the pamphlet suddenly disappeared from the rack, and the guy up front kept going in the back to look for them to no avail. It was a very disappointing dream. |
#116
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There are pluses and minuses either way, individual (with CLEO sign-off) or trust/corp. One thing I know is that an actual CLEO posts on another forum and does a trust for his toys even though he can sign his own forms. That may say something. Last edited by ke6guj; 02-17-2008 at 11:39 AM.. |
#117
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I understand NFA and trusts/LLC/corporations.
The sheriff in San Diego will not issue CCWs to peons like me. That fact alone leads me to believe that he will not sign NFA paperwork. BUT...I still want to stroll in there and ask for his signature. Mostly, just to see the dept. reaction. I can imagine that they will get their panties in a bunch. If they say no, I will explain to them that I can set up a trust and still legally own the NFA stuff. The sheriff has the option of: A) Sign it and know what NFA stuff I have. B) refure signature and NEVER know what NFA stuff I have. FWIW, San Diego Sheriff Kolender is an a**. I can't wait til the prick retires.
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God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#118
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I think I posted somewhere about one of his replacements being VERY pro-CCW. We can only hope for the San Diegans. Justin |
#119
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I may rethink my plan. I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way, and leave a pro-gun guy with a bad taste in his mouth. If I went about it correctly, it might bring a person of importance around.
__________________
God Bless American Ingenuity and Bureaucratic Incompetence. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org |
#120
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I'd like to revive this thread... I have a copy of Suze Orman's Will & Trust Kit right here.. software. I am thinking of trying the AOW path. Anyone else willing to work in parallel?
Turby |
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