2013 CA AB 48 - Skinner/Ammiano, Magazines // A - PS hearing April 2

[DFF]

AB 48 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140AB48
... and new-style link, http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140AB48

(The text is interesting, but the whole set of info is even MORE interesting.)

See also

the Beginner's guide to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/...introduced.pdf

[DFF]

"The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program."

Even the look of a 30 round mag (that is actually blocked to 10) is enough for the antis to poop in their panties.

[Sinestr]

(b)*Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014

..................

[Wherryj]

Originally Posted by Sinestr

(b)*Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014

..................

The issue is that even if this grandfathers magazines, just how are CA owners supposed to get 10 round magazines for their rifles? There is a very short supply on those, THUS the reason for the permanently blocked 20s or 30s. If you think that prices are high now, wait until you aren't able to use ANY of those.

[crazy]

My post deleted. Is that better?

[DrewN]

Huh, this could be bad for my .50 Beowulf. Unless a marked floorplate makes a difference, Beowulf 10 rounders are essentially GI 30 rounders.

[Dantedamean]

I hope they plan on grandfathering all the new high capacity magazines that will fall under This law.

[phrogg111]

This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

[kauaibuilt]

Originally Posted by phrogg111

This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

I wondering how many CLEO will support the reporting requirement. Who gets in trouble if (1) a bad guy is able to buy bullets or (2) otherwise "legal" person snaps and goes on a shooting spree. Will it be the ammo seller, transferring FFL, CLEO, or CA DOJ?

[Bruceisontarget]

Originally Posted by phrogg111

This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

All true, but that won't stop them from passing it.

[AlexDD]

No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

[CitaDeL]

Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic.

[chris]

Originally Posted by CitaDeL

Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic FAIL.

fixed it for you.

Originally Posted by LOW2000

http://www.tomammiano.com/



Universal Health Care. Tom authored and passed law to make San Francisco the first city in American to provide universal health care access.

Great Schools. Sponsored and helped pass “Great Schools” Charter Amendment adding $300 million to SF public schools.

Living Wage. Won battle to dramatically increase salaries for lowest-paid city employees and contract workers.

Mission Housing. Led the fight to protect Mission housing, nonprofits and artists from profit-hungry live-work developers.

Children’s Fund. Established the fund that provides millions annually to subsidize child care, health and social services for SF youth.

Police Reform. Authored measures to increase police accountability and strengthen the Office of Citizen’s Complaints.

Domestic Partners. Passed pioneering law to extend marriage privileges to domestic partners in the City.

District Elections. Sponsored & helped pass Charter Amendment to ensure neighborhood accountability and representation at City Hall.

Gang Prevention Spearheaded the establishment of outreach and gang-prevention programs for at-risk youth.



Pedestrian Safety. Pushed the city to install new stop signs, crosswalks, and speed bumps in the district to make it safe for pedestrians.

Bilingual Services. Won funding for Spanish-speaking social workers for district health clinic.

Mission Safety. Secured police officers devoted entirely to increasing public safety in the Mission and the lower 24th Street neighborhood.

Immigrant Housing. Created rental funding program to protect immigrants who lose federal subsidies for public housing.

New Citizens. Began program to assist immigrants who wish to become US citizens.

Nonprofit Assistance. Acquired funding to improve non-profit arts organizations and save them from eviction.

Affordable Housing. Created a fund to assist first-time home buyers and develop housing available to all the City’s residents.

Eviction Protection. Tripled the amount landlords must pay to relocate evicted tenants.

Political Reform. Wrote landmark campaign finance reform legislation to curb the influence of special interests and contractors on local elections.

Solar Energy. Led successful campaign to fund renewable energy installations and energy conservation improvements for both the public and the private sector.

MUNI & Transit. Secured over $780 million in new funding for SF public transportation.

Child Abuse. Established the Work Group to End Youth Exploitation and worked with DPH to create safe house for young victims of sexual exploitation.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Tom_Ammiano

2010
In 2010, Ammiano raised $293,960 in contributions. [16]
His four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
California Teachers Association $15,600
Operating Engineers Local 3 $11,700
Service Employees Local 1021 $7,800
District Council Of Ironworkers $7,800
2008
Below are Ammiano's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[17]
Contributor 2008 total
California Nurses Association $14,400
California State Council of Service Employees $14,400
California Teachers Association $14,400
Operating Engineers Local 3 $14,400
CA State Pipe Trades Council $10,800

bought and paid for by public employee unions

[Dantedamean]

Originally Posted by AlexDD

No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

This^^^^^

It will be interesting to see what arbitrary number they pick for reporting of the sale. I'm guessing 500.

[JoshuaS]

So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

[Rackatak]

Originally Posted by JoshuaS

So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Rackatak

No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

Right.

There's a reason there is a link to the bill text. Take the time to understand as much as you can.

Ask questions like

some bit of the bill

what does this mean? Be prepared to accept 'nobody is sure' as the answer.

[kf6tac]

Originally Posted by phrogg111

This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

No; the bill does not ban possession.

[JoshuaS]

My mistake. I had clicked the "Today's Law As Amended" and saw that it struck out the mention of tubular magazines being exempt. It didn't show there the further section that exempted them.

[pbreed]

Does the PC define tubular magazine?

[monk]

Good thing they didn't think to add the 50 round magazines that are made from shark fin. This would've been disastrous as they're selling like hot cakes right now.

[PackingHeatInSDCA]

Originally Posted by monk

Good thing they didn't think to add the 50 round magazines that are made from shark fin. This would've been disastrous as they're selling like hot cakes right now.

no kidding! It was the first thing I thought of. coooooooool we can stil get the 50 round shark fin mags!

only problem I am having is most dealers are selling out so quickly after they get them in that they are difficult to find. couple dealers even denied having them at all, I think because they had already sold many on pre-order

hopefully the idiots in Sacramento wont ban them too, at least not until I can get a few hundred more...just in case.

[coffeecup]

Originally Posted by PackingHeatInSDCA

no kidding! It was the first thing I thought of. coooooooool we can stil get the 50 round shark fin mags!

only problem I am having is most dealers are selling out so quickly after they get them in that they are difficult to find. couple dealers even denied having them at all, I think because they had already sold many on pre-order

hopefully the idiots in Sacramento wont ban them too, at least not until I can get a few hundred more...just in case.

I got 10 for each of my guns.

[bigcalidave]

I guess they will have to outlaw all steel tubing, wouldn't want someone to make their own! Take a useless law, one that very few are ever prosecuted for, and make it more useless...

[Librarian]

Raise your game, folks.

Threads about bills should not be a long gripe session.

Try something like Eugene Volokh - http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/26/up-...rget-shooting/

...
So, under either interpretation, Sen. De Leon’s proposal would make it harder for people to keep up their training in safe and effective gun use. It would make it harder for people to learn the basics about guns, by having a friend take them to the range. It would have relatively little effect on the rich and the upper middle class, but might be quite burdensome for poorer people.

And while it would burden the law-abiding, it would have basically no impact on would-be criminals, either career criminals or mass shooters. That’s true of many proposed gun restrictions; and it’s true of this one.

[tintguy]

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by tintguy

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

What they also need to understand is that it doesn't take much to drive to another state and stock up. Interstate commerce is mutha....

[randian]

Originally Posted by tintguy

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller.

Protectionist legislation for gun retailers, from liberals no less. Who would have thought?

[Sakiri]

Originally Posted by tintguy

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

They want to know we have this stuff so that when the economy totally collapses and we're begging for military to deal with the rioters, they can come take all of our crap right before they turn this into Nazi Germany.

[The Wingnut]

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

[redhead]

Originally Posted by The Wingnut

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

Thank you. Shhhhh!

[Bucc]

Originally Posted by The Wingnut

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

^^^^^^
That. I stopped reading after the first page but in case anyone didn't repeat it or get it the first several times...... shut up and let the people who handle this stuff handle it.

[PixelBender]

Originally Posted by The Wingnut

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

RIGHT? I've said this before... Deconstructing bills and suggesting loopholes or even inadequacies and constitutionally bankrupt segments is doing nothing to help our cause. Providing them with a proofread stream of comments is in no way benefitting us.

I would write my senators but they're the bastards who are pushing the AWB.

[tacocat]

Originally Posted by The Wingnut

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

We move. Five meter spread. NO SOUND.

[AlexDD]

This ^^^^

[Gunwriter]

Originally Posted by AlexDD

This ^^^^

Your wish is granted...All you have to do is move to AZ.

[superbart3000]

Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by superbart3000

Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.

smart man. I was going to comment on the previous good advice of silence...

But I did read your initial - so I will PM you what my understanding is (a part you might have missed) - even though you could be the cleaver one in disguise ...

In the mean time - I think I'll change my sig to the current message of "Enemy is Listening"... we probably all should

[LOW2000]

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/



http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/i...neighborhoods/

Safe Neighborhoods
We need to do more to prevent gun violence. For example, we can require ballistic fingerprinting and integrated locks on all handguns sold in California.

We need to fund more community-based policing so that police can connect with the community where they serve. This will provide officers with a better understanding of the issues in that community, and the social services available to address their needs.

We need to reform our criminal statues. We should

Restore protections to our children which would prevent them from being prosecuted as adults;
Eliminate the three strikes rule by putting the issue back on the ballot;
Emphasize rehabilitation for first-time and minor offense offenders; and
Provide good support services to parolees to help them secure jobs and housing when they have finished serving their sentences.
The key to violence and crime prevention is education. Study after study shows that crime levels will drop if we invest in quality education from pre-school through college, make educational opportunities available and accessible to our children, and provide a safety net for youth and families in crisis.

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http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Nancy_Skinner

2010
In 2010, Skinner raised $860,336 in contributions. [11]
Her four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
Electrical Workers Local 302 $15,600
California State Council Of Service Employees $15,000
AT&T $13,800
State Building & Construction Trades Council Of California $11,800
2008


2008 campaign banner
Below are Skinner's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[12]
Contributor 2008 total
CA Medical Assoc $10,800
Northern CA Carpenters Regional Council $10,800
Electrical Workers Local 595 $9,700
California Federation of Teachers $8,200
Electrical Workers Local 302 $7,200

[G-Man WC]

Originally Posted by LOW2000

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/

Wow, Talk about separated at birth