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  #1  
Old 10-11-2017, 1:20 AM
Baja Daze Baja Daze is offline
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Default Washington D.C.

Since DC has opted NOT to request cert from SCOTUS in the Wrenn case and can no longer require "good cause' for a permit, who here is going to apply?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/applying-license-carry-handgun
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Old 10-11-2017, 6:12 PM
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Will they issue to non-DC residents?
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Old 10-11-2017, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Will they issue to non-DC residents?
Appears they issue to non-residents of DC as long as they have a valid carry permit in the State they reside in.

So a CA resident needs a valid CA LTC permit in order to qualify for the non-resident DC carry permit.
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Old 10-11-2017, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Daze View Post
Since DC has opted NOT to request cert from SCOTUS in the Wrenn case and can no longer require "good cause' for a permit, who here is going to apply?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/applying-license-carry-handgun
Appears you need DC approved training, which is only done in DC.
^Exemptions if you are a LEO or retired LEO and provide proof of LEO training.
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Appears they issue to non-residents of DC as long as they have a valid carry permit in the State they reside in.

So a CA resident needs a valid CA LTC permit in order to qualify for the non-resident DC carry permit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Appears you need DC approved training, which is only done in DC.
^Exemptions if you are a LEO or retired LEO and provide proof of LEO training.
Maybe something else to do on my next trip to DC....
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:30 AM
Baja Daze Baja Daze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Appears you need DC approved training, which is only done in DC.
^Exemptions if you are a LEO or retired LEO and provide proof of LEO training.
The firearms training for DC must be from instructors on their approved list and it appears they are all located in either Virginia or Maryland which makes sense since both states are contiguous to DC.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/concealed-c...-certified-mpd

And DC requires 16 hours of firearms training + 2 hours of range training, so this would probably be a minimum three day trip for a DC permit.

Last edited by Baja Daze; 10-13-2017 at 1:39 AM..
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:49 AM
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Training can be delayed and you can be preapproved without the training if you obtain it within 45 days of preapproval. Cost for the License is $75.00.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/dc.pdf
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Appears they issue to non-residents of DC as long as they have a valid carry permit in the State they reside in.

So a CA resident needs a valid CA LTC permit in order to qualify for the non-resident DC carry permit.
(f) Has a bona fide residence or place of business:

(1) Within the District of Columbia;
(2) Within the United States and a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by the lawful authorities of any State or subdivision of the United States; or
(3) Within the United States and meets all registration and licensing requirements pursuant to the Act;
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Old 10-13-2017, 8:00 AM
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We have a trip to DC tentatively scheduled for next year.

This would be a nice little addition to the CCW permit collection...
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:04 PM
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Does anyone have any insight into what it takes to become a DC certified instructor? I suggested that my LGS inquire and become DC certified instructors. While I am not planing on traveling to DC in the near future, I am willing to spend a nominal amount to add DC to the jurisdictions where I can carry.
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Old 09-14-2018, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Does anyone have any insight into what it takes to become a DC certified instructor? I suggested that my LGS inquire and become DC certified instructors. While I am not planing on traveling to DC in the near future, I am willing to spend a nominal amount to add DC to the jurisdictions where I can carry.
See following:
https://mpdc.dc.gov/node/927182


Here's my question: has anybody tried submitting another state's training to satisfy DC's requirements? If so, has this been successful?
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Old 09-15-2018, 8:39 AM
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I’m interested to see what you guys come up with.

—S
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:09 AM
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The list of prohibited places is long. You'd be lucky to be able to carry while not on any highway driving through the district
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Old 09-15-2018, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
The list of prohibited places is long. You'd be lucky to be able to carry while not on any highway driving through the district
Not according to the DC MPD:
It’s about to become easier for D.C. residents to obtain concealed-carry firearms permits — but researchers said Washingtonians will still have to face a set of city laws so complex and muddled that it may mean there is hardly any place they can safely carry their weapons.

The city’s “gun-free zones” law places restrictions on carrying firearms within 1,000 feet of a school, college, day care center, playground, library, public housing complex and other public gathering spots.

The list is so broad that nearly every city block would qualify as a gun-free zone, said John R. Lott Jr., president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, who released a map Tuesday showing the parts of the city he said would clearly be affected by the 1,000-foot restriction.

“They’re just making it so it’s actually impossible for somebody to legally carry in the District of Columbia,” Mr. Lott said. “My own guess is they probably did it on purpose. I can’t get into people’s minds to know, but there’s no other law that’s drafted anywhere near similar to what’s in here.”

The Metropolitan Police Department gave a different interpretation of the law, saying the gun-free zones apply only to those carrying firearms illegally and that the penalty amounts to boosting prison time when other offenses have been committed.

Still, legal analysts said they would be cautious given the “bafflingly drafted” ordinance.

The fight over the meaning of the law comes just days after the city announced it would not pursue an appeal to the Supreme Court of a circuit court ruling this year that said the District’s “good reason” rule placed too high a burden on residents seeking concealed-carry permits. The case means residents no longer have to prove to the satisfaction of police that they have a special reason to want to carry a firearm.

The “good reason” clause had proved to be a major hurdle for city gun owners, sinking 74 percent of concealed-carry applications.

Now the city is preparing for many of those rejected applicants to apply again, as well as others who were reluctant to apply in the first place because of the good reason restriction.

Mr. Lott and other gun rights advocates said those who do obtain a permit, though, should still be wary of carrying a gun in the city, based on laws that severely restrict where they can go with a weapon.

The city’s laws designate areas 1,000 feet from most public gathering spaces such as schools and parks to be gun-free zones, as long as they are identified as such by signage. The law reads: “Any person illegally carrying a gun within a gun free zone shall be punished by a fine up to twice that otherwise authorized to be imposed, by a term of imprisonment up to twice that otherwise authorized to be imposed, or both.” The law says it “shall not apply to a person legally licensed to carry a firearm in the District of Columbia.”

A city police spokeswoman said the law “is a penalty enhancement — not a unique crime — for someone who is illegally carrying a firearm. That would not apply to someone with a valid license to carry.”

But Emily Miller, who chronicled her ordeal through the permitting process to own a firearm in the city in The Washington Times and later in her book “Emily Gets Her Gun,” said she doesn’t trust that assurance.

The D.C. Council “wrote a carry law that makes me study a map every time I move 10 feet,” said Ms. Miller. “Obviously, their intent was to make it as hard as possible for those of us who have carry permits to legally carry our guns in [the District] for self-defense. The criminals roam freely and don’t abide by the absurd carry restrictions, so those of us who carry guns for self-defense should be able to do so as well.”
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Old 09-15-2018, 4:29 PM
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Feel free to be he guinea pig on that one, MPD does not interpret the law they only enforce it.

The link to the prohibited places is included under the License to Carry menu option, pretty hard to assume that its not meant for CCW
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:57 PM
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There are two different provisions--one is relevant for permit holders (that's the one on the website you refer to), and one probably isn't.

The relevant provision is:
Quote:
§ 7–2509.07. Prohibitions on carrying licensed pistols.
(a) No person holding a license shall carry a pistol in the following locations or under the following circumstances:

(1) A building or office occupied by the District of Columbia, its agencies, or instrumentalities;

(2) The building and grounds, including any adjacent parking lot, of an childcare facility, preschool, public or private elementary or secondary school; or a public or private college or university;

(3) A hospital, or an office where medical or mental health services are the primary services provided;

(4) A penal institution, secure juvenile residential facility, or halfway house;

(5) A polling place while voting is occurring;

(6) A public transportation vehicle, including the Metrorail transit system and its stations;

(7) Any premises, or portion thereof, where alcohol is served, or sold and consumed on the premises, pursuant to a license issued under Title 25; provided, that this prohibition shall not apply to premises operating under a temporary license issued pursuant to § 25-115, a C/R, D/R, C/H, D/H or caterer license issued pursuant to § 25-113, or premises with small-sample tasting permits issued pursuant to § 25-118, unless otherwise prohibited pursuant to subsection (b)(3) of this section;

(8) A stadium or arena;

(9) A gathering or special event open to the public; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:

(A) The organizer or the District has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols in advance of the gathering or special event and by posted signage at the gathering or special event; or

(B) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the area of the gathering or special event and the licensee has not complied with the order;

(10) The public memorials on the National Mall and along the Tidal Basin, and any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law or by a federal agency or entity, including U.S. Capitol buildings and grounds;

(11) The White House Complex and its grounds up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadways of the area bounded by Constitution Avenue, N.W., 15th Street, N.W., H Street, N.W., and 17th Street, N.W.;

(12) The U.S. Naval Observatory and its fence line, including the area from the perimeter of its fence up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadway of Observatory Circle, from Calvert Street, N.W., to Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., and around Observatory Circle to the far corner of Observatory Lane;

(13)(A) When a dignitary or high-ranking official of the United States or a state, local, or foreign government is moving under the protection of the MPD, the U.S. Secret Service, the U.S. Capitol Police, or other law enforcement agency assisting or working in concert with MPD, within an area designated by the Chief, the Chief of the U.S. Secret Service, or the Chief of the U.S. Capitol Police, or a designee of any of the foregoing, that does not include any point at a distance greater than 1,000 feet from the moving dignitary or high-ranking official; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:

(i) The law enforcement agency provides notice of the designated area by the presence of signs, law enforcement vehicles or officers acting as a perimeter, or other means to make the designated area of protection obvious;

(ii) The District or federal government has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols along a designated route or in a designated area in advance of the event, if possible, and by posted signage along a route or in a designated area; or

(iii) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the designated area and the licensee has not complied with the order.

(B) For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “moving” shall include any planned or unplanned stops, including temporary stops, in locations open to the public.

(14) When demonstration in a public place is occurring, within an area designated by the Chief or his or her designee, or other law enforcement agency, that does not include any point at a distance greater than 1,000 feet from the demonstration; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:

(A) The law enforcement agency provides notice of the designated area by the presence of signs, law enforcement vehicles or officers acting as a perimeter, or other means to make the designated area of the demonstration obvious;

(B) The District or federal government has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols along or within a demonstration route or designated area in advance of the event, if possible, and by posted signage along a demonstration route or designated area; or

(C) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the designated area and the licensee has not complied with the order; or

(15) Any prohibited location or circumstance that the Chief determines by rule; provided, that for spontaneous circumstances, no criminal penalty shall apply unless the licensee has notice of the prohibition and has failed to comply.

(b)(1) The carrying of a concealed pistol on private residential property shall be presumed to be prohibited unless otherwise authorized by the property owner or person in control of the premises and communicated personally to the licensee in advance of entry onto the residential property.

(2) The carrying of a concealed pistol in a church, synagogue, mosque, or other place where people regularly assemble for religious worship shall be presumed to be prohibited unless the property is posted with conspicuous signage allowing the carrying of a concealed pistol, or the owner or authorized agent communicates such allowance personally to the licensee in advance of entry onto the property; provided, that such places may not authorize the carrying of a concealed pistol where services are conducted in locations listed in subsection (a) of this section.

(3) The carrying of a concealed pistol on private property that is not a residence shall be presumed to be permitted unless the property is posted with conspicuous signage prohibiting the carrying of a concealed pistol, or the owner or authorized agent communicates such prohibition personally to the licensee.

(c) Whenever a licensee carries a concealed pistol and approaches any prohibited location, or is subject to any prohibited circumstance, under subsection (a) or (b) of this section, the licensee shall:

(1) If the licensee is in a vehicle or if a vehicle is readily available, immediately secure the pistol in the manner prescribed in § 22-4504.02(b); or

(2) If the licensee does not have a vehicle available, immediately leave the prohibited location or circumstance.

(d) A licensee shall not be in violation of this section:

(1) While he or she is traveling along a public sidewalk that touches the perimeter of any of the premises where the carrying of a concealed pistol is prohibited under subsection (a) and subsection (b) of this section, except for the areas designated in subsection (a)(11) and (a)(12), or along a public street, roadway, or highway if the concealed pistol is carried on his or her person in accordance with this unit, or is being transported by the licensee in accordance with § 22-4504.02; or

(2) While driving a vehicle into and immediately parking at any location listed in subsection (a)(2) of this section for the purpose of picking up or dropping off a student or a child; provided, that the licensee shall secure the concealed pistol in accordance with § 22-4504.02(b), before leaving the parked vehicle.

(e) A licensee shall not carry a pistol openly or otherwise in a manner that is not concealed.

(f) In addition to any other penalty provided by law, any person who violates this section shall be subject to revocation of his or her license.

(g) For the purposes of this section, the term:

(1) “Demonstration” means one or more persons demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking, marching, holding a vigil, or engaging in any other similar conduct that involves the communication or expression of views or grievances and that has the effect, intent, or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers. The term “demonstration” does not include the casual use of property by visitors or tourists that does not have the effect, intent, or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

(2) “Public place” means a place to which the general public has access and a right to occupy for business, entertainment, or other lawful purpose. The term “public place” is not limited to a place devoted solely to the uses of the public, and includes:

(A) The front or immediate area or parking lot of a store, restaurant, tavern, shopping center, or other place of business;

(B) A public building, including its grounds and curtilage;

(C) A public parking lot;

(D) A public street, sidewalk, or right-of-way;

(E) A public park; and

(F) Other public grounds.

(3) “Public transportation vehicle” means any publicly owned or operated commercial vehicle, including any DC Circulator bus, DC Streetcar, MetroAccess vehicle, Metrobus, or Metrorail train.

(4) “Residence” means a building wholly or partly used or intended to be used for living and sleeping by human occupants, together with any fences, walls, sheds, garages, or other accessory buildings appurtenant to the building, and the area of land surrounding the building and actually or by legal construction forming one enclosure in which such a building is located, but does not include adjacent common areas or commercial property contained in any part of the building.
Some of these prohibitions may fall afoul of Wrenn and hopefully the NRA or SAF or somebody challenges them. Wrenn was written in a very pro-2A manner. That being said, for now, one would be wise to assume this is the law for CCW-holders. Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to 6 months in jail or $1,000 fine.

The likely irrelevant provision for CCW-holders is this:
Quote:
(b) Any person illegally carrying a gun within a gun free zone shall be punished by a fine up to twice that otherwise authorized to be imposed, by a term of imprisonment up to twice that otherwise authorized to be imposed, or both.
It's very clearly a penalty enhancement section, not a independent ban in GFSZ.

John Lott--who is a man I've spoken to several times through FedSoc and greatly respect--created a lot of FUD with his map. Yes, the statute is horrifically drafted, seemingly by somebody whose IQ is about room temperature. But the only reasonable way to read this is as a penalty enhancement section.
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